Some solutions to balance tanks

bluefrosst··3 votes·1,068 views

First off, the largest advantage of Cinderhulk as a jungle item is how well it scales, because of the 25% bonus HP. That really should be cut down or removed, maybe increasing the flat health as compensation, unless the cost of tank stats is significantly increased. By the nature of a tank's cheap itemization path, they can rapidly become a problem for a carry, getting really tanky before an ADC can get Last Whisper, for which they have to wait until their 4th item (3rd excluding boots). This pacing is one of the real problems Cinderhulk creates, and an ADC really has no way to counter-itemize without reducing build effectiveness. They can't get Last Whisper right after their IE because then they'll have no attack speed to deal out the DPS they need to contribute in a teamfight. To solve this scaling problem, I'd suggest increasing the costs of tank itemization (very few tank items cost more than 3000g, I think Frozen Mallet is the only one AFAIK, correct me if I'm wrong). They are already gold efficient, and only get more gold efficient with the bonus health on Cinderhulk (Again, AFAIK Frozen Mallet is the only 'tank' item that costs over 3000g). While a carry's build path should still be expensive, increasing the costs on tank items would help balance the itemization race between tanks and carries. Another idea could be to increase the % resistance ignored by Last Whisper and Void Staff (40% or 45%).

If Riot is going to keep the bonus health on Cinderhulk and not change the costs of tank items, then the other three enchants (Warrior in particular) should have some scaling statistics other than CDR, because at this point, Cinderhulk by far outclasses any other jungle enchant, even Devourer IMO, in the late game. Warrior could have percentage armor penetration/reduction (working like Last Whisper), Magus could maybe have a small percentage bonus AP (5% or 10% max) or percentage magic penetration/reduction (working like Void Staff). Devourer already has its stacking mechanic, so I'm not sure it needs too much help...

This is a bit of a tangent, but the recent changes to Black Cleaver (and potential Abyssal Scepter changes) only serve to exacerbate the problem. These changes have taken away penetration items from carries, giving them fewer options to counter resistance itemization. AP carries/assassins would only have Void Staff, Liandry's Torment, and Sorceror's Shoes as practical magic penetration items if the Abyssal changes go through, while AD carries/assassins currently have only Last Whisper and Yoummu's Ghostblade as meaningful items to counter armor itemization.

5 Comments

KamakaziGumiBear5 votes

Dont touch tanks. They are suppose to be hard to kill. For the first 4 seasons tanks melted like butter. It has always blown my mind how in a game of "skill" one player can kill another in 1 second. Not much skill goes into killing someone straight up. Maybe ADCS should switch to building Life steal to more easily deal with tanks? You shouldn't be able to get by with a VS for like 90% of the game. Tanks are building pure tank just to deal with the damage thrown at them. Yet you want them nerfed so you can keep building pure damage to deal with them? One is already forgoing build effectiveness by building pure tank to deal with you, and your answer is you need to build more damage to kill them? Stop Rushing a IE and make a BT. Suddenly your not being killed by a tank. ADCs already scale amazing, should there be no counter? It seems illogical that ADCs should be as effective as they are building pure damage like a derp.

High51 votes

{quoted}

Dont touch tanks. They are suppose to be hard to kill. For the first 4 seasons tanks melted like butter. It has always blown my mind how in a game of "skill" one player can kill another in 1 second. Not much skill goes into killing someone straight up. Maybe ADCS should switch to building Life steal to more easily deal with tanks? You shouldn't be able to get by with a VS for like 90% of the game. Tanks are building pure tank just to deal with the damage thrown at them. Yet you want them nerfed so you can keep building pure damage to deal with them? One is already forgoing build effectiveness by building pure tank to deal with you, and your answer is you need to build more damage to kill them? Stop Rushing a IE and make a BT. Suddenly your not being killed by a tank. ADCs already scale amazing, should there be no counter? It seems illogical that ADCs should be as effective as they are building pure damage like a derp.

Extreme Troller1 votes

the only problem to tank meta is cinderhulk. the 2200gold item was worth 5700+gold at release now it's less but still 4500+ gold which is absurd, i have no idea what riot is smoking btw.

windwolf7771 votes

There is no problem with cinderhulk. I don't even play tanks and I know that. It requires you to take summoner 11 instead of something like summoner 7 or summoner 12 (or possibly even give upsummoner 4) and yes while the possibility of a bit more damage/cc in item 3717 item 3709 respectively might be good, I don't think it's op EDIT: And also

{quoted}

Dont touch tanks. They are suppose to be hard to kill. For the first 4 seasons tanks melted like butter. It has always blown my mind how in a game of "skill" one player can kill another in 1 second. Not much skill goes into killing someone straight up. Maybe ADCS should switch to building Life steal to more easily deal with tanks? You shouldn't be able to get by with a VS for like 90% of the game. Tanks are building pure tank just to deal with the damage thrown at them. Yet you want them nerfed so you can keep building pure damage to deal with them? One is already forgoing build effectiveness by building pure tank to deal with you, and your answer is you need to build more damage to kill them? Stop Rushing a IE and make a BT. Suddenly your not being killed by a tank. ADCs already scale amazing, should there be no counter? It seems illogical that ADCs should be as effective as they are building pure damage like a derp.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

There are only a handful of "tanks" doing well currently, once again, bruiser/fighters had been abusing cinderhulk+smite more than tanks themselves.

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