How does Pyke protect the ADC?

ChosenOne124·Jun 3, 2018·1 votes·3,012 views

Firstly, I'm a support main.

I've been playing Pyke, and I have to say, he's awesome. His hook is intuitive, his ult is tricky but powerful once you get it, and his stun is an absolute blast to use.

But something bothers me. Pyke's kit seems to lack the tools do actually support. He can't protect the adc, since his utility is fairly limited against the threats adcs face like diving tanks and assassins. His support-ness is even more diminished by the fact that his most efficient items are things like Duskblade, Youmuu's Ghostblade, and Black Cleaver, only one of which actually helps your ADC.

I've been having good success with rushing Deadman's Plate and may experiment with Frozen Mallet at some point, but this isn't really the same level of protection a support with a Knight's Vow, Redemption, or Locket provide.

So here's my question: How the hell do I support, like actually support, with Pyke?

23 Comments

D357R0Y3RJun 3, 20185 votes

by killing people

BLACK REALM GODJun 3, 20182 votes

item 3401 heals your bottom laner. item 3022 slows your opponent. item 3071 removes armor. item 3056 helps with dives. item 3109 you can heal for free. item 3143 reduces attack speed and slows enemies. item 3107 heals your team and damage enemies item 3075 applies grievous wounds item 3033 applies grievous wounds item 3091 removes magic resist item 3153 slows item 3001 (i dont know why you would buy this, but...) makes nearby enemies take more magic damage item 3147 grants vision control item 2138 grants allied movement speed. item 3110 reduces attack speed of nearby enemies item 3025 slows enemies movement item 3800 slows enemies movement summoner 3 cripple an opponent summoner 7 heal nearby allies and grant a burst of movement speed Q - force an opponent out of position. E - stun enemies. R - grant gold to your ally by marking a target for execution.

...what is there to not understand?

ChosenOne124Jun 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lQuItYh8,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-03T11:14:31.110+0000)

heals your bottom laner. slows your opponent. removes armor. helps with dives. you can heal for free. reduces attack speed and slows enemies. heals your team and damage enemies applies grievous wounds applies grievous wounds removes magic resist slows (i dont know why you would buy this, but...) makes nearby enemies take more magic damage grants vision control grants allied movement speed. reduces attack speed of nearby enemies slows enemies movement slows enemies movement cripple an opponent heal nearby allies and grant a burst of movement speed Q - force an opponent out of position. E - stun enemies. R - grant gold to your ally by marking a target for execution.

...what is there to not understand?

Armor and Magic Resistance aren't efficient without some level of bonus health. Pyke also doesn't scale well with AS or AP.

BLACK REALM GODJun 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Armor and Magic Resistance aren't efficient without some level of bonus health. Pyke also doesn't scale well with AS or AP.

none of those items were AP. you dont need HP to benefit from armor and magic resist. whoever told you that doesnt know what they're talking about.

ChosenOne124Jun 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lQuItYh8,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-06-04T01:44:04.285+0000)

none of those items were AP. you dont need HP to benefit from armor and magic resist. whoever told you that doesnt know what they're talking about.

Woops, they changed the AP off Ohmwrecker. Haven't looked at that item for a while.

I never said you need HP to benefit from Armor and MR. I said you need HP for armor and mr to be efficient. Each point of resistances amplifies the value of each point of health. Tank items like Frozen Heart and Thornmail are designed with the idea that they are amplifying 2500+ health, not what Pyke has.

BLACK REALM GODJun 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Woops, they changed the AP off Ohmwrecker. Haven't looked at that item for a while.

I never said you need HP to benefit from Armor and MR. I said you need HP for armor and mr to be efficient. Each point of resistances amplifies the value of each point of health. Tank items like Frozen Heart and Thornmail are designed with the idea that they are amplifying 2500+ health, not what Pyke has.

it's fine. i recommend looking before you type though. people will ridicule you to no end if you put something down incorrect.

armor regardless of how much HP you have will block :

% turret damage
% minion damage
% monster damage
% physical damage.

you probably haven't looked at pyke's kit either, but pyke's kit is perfect for diving, but not that great at tanking turret shots. when you put ohmwrecker on a pyke you've effectively guaranteed your team a successful dive because pyke has an execute. when you damage enemies the minions will start eating away at your HP and if you dont have armor it disappears quite fast. if a minion damages you you also dont get that hp back through your passive. you can only regenerate HP that was lost through champions attacking you. this is one reason why pyke jungle is inefficient as far as clearing camps goes. you dont have any sustain starting out. however he can make up for it mid to late game with enough successful ganks.

http://i.imgur.com/il8VKrM.png

this is damage reduction based on armor value. with ohmwrecker you get 160 armor at level 18 and at level 1 you get 92 which is right at that sweet spot for maximum gold efficiency.

then there's the movement speed when near turrets. if you're sitting behind your carry waiting on a relic shield charge to recover so you can heal your ally this item will grant you extra movement speed so you can get in and get out without taking too much poke from the enemy. boots of mobility are a must have on pyke so you're going to lose a lot of movement speed when you get damaged. if you have ohm wrecker you can at least compensate for it somewhat.

ohmwrecker grants roughly 21 AD from the 300 HP.

the active allows you to run past the turret and use your R on a fleeing victim without worry of dying to the turret.

for these reasons i recommend ohmwrecker on pyke.

IP MasquerenaJun 3, 20182 votes

He supports the same way a Zyra, Brand, Vel'Koz and the like support. Making sure the enemy dies faster.

Not all supports have to be peel/shield bots like Janna, Lulu, Soraka, Rakan or Taric.

FullmuteAll playJun 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

He supports the same way a Zyra, Brand, Vel'Koz and the like support. Making sure the enemy dies faster.

Not all supports have to be peel/shield bots like Janna, Lulu, Soraka, Rakan or Taric.

Agreeing in overall with your statement Taric and especially Rakan are not any close to peel/shield bots

IP MasquerenaJun 3, 20181 votes

They aren't the same type as Janna and co. but they do both shield and peel for the adc quite a lot. Taric with his link stun, heals and shields, Rakan with his dash, Q heal that can hit in team fights and Grand Entrance.

Janna, Lulu and Soraka can't engage, so they default to peeling, healing and shielding, while Rakan and Taric can also engage, but if needed, they can also dial back and peel, heal and shield. Yes, it may be a little less efficient than the other 3, but they can also do that job exemplary.

Zyra, Brand, Leo, Pyke and stuff can peel thanks to stuns, but those skills are much better if used aggresive, while Taric or Rakan, even if they use their stun/knockup offensively, have the tools to Shield the adc, and depending on items, even peel for them while their cooldowns come back up. That's why I placed them in that category.

Maybe I did word it a bit wrong, but it still is the same case.

ChosenOne124Jun 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

He supports the same way a Zyra, Brand, Vel'Koz and the like support. Making sure the enemy dies faster.

Not all supports have to be peel/shield bots like Janna, Lulu, Soraka, Rakan or Taric.

Zyra, Brand, and Vel'koz have an incredible zoning game. They protect the ADC by positioning so that the ADC sits in their zone. Enemies who dive the adc aren't respecting their zoning, so they get destroyed. Pyke's kit isn't very effective at zoning enemies away.

Nanuk PihoqahiakJun 3, 20181 votes

I haven't personally tested it, but I theorize that Glacial Augment might actually be REALLY good on him. He doesn't make good use of a lot of the keystones. However, being able to cripple the enemy's movement speed with how easily he can get it on someone would be valuable in not only locking them down, but preventing them from catching anyone else.

OurLestradeJun 3, 20181 votes

The logic is that the best CC is death, but it's true that in terms of supporting he's not at all conventional. He's meant to be paired with heavy kill lanes with ADCs that can take care of themselves methinks, maybe he'll bring a resurgence of the bruiser bot lane?

NetorareJun 3, 20181 votes

Playing Pyke and wanting to protect ur adc omegalul. Why would u want to protect ur adc while playing champs like pyke or vel'koz etc, YOU are the damage...

KhristophorosJun 3, 20181 votes

Supports aren't necessarily supposed to protect people. They are supposed to be effective with less gold (well nowadays idk they just get free gold)

TheSeditionistJun 3, 20181 votes

The same way blitzcrank does, using cc and repositioning to change which people are being focused and out of place. All his cc is still peel, and his regen allows him to absorb focus in short fights almost like a tahm kench so long as he's careful. Then factor that you can potentially add his kills to his number of assists and that's a lot of assistance.

AzadetheJun 3, 20181 votes

Personally I only play him in jungle..... But I do play like a support.

When I have an opponent dueling someone like my mid..... I go in and E them into place. Usually saves my teammate while positioning for a takedown.

Jackom1Jun 3, 20181 votes

How does leona protect the adc?

ChosenOne124Jun 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

How does leona protect the adc?

Two stuns and a snare, as well as a locket.

SuperCosmicHoboJun 4, 20181 votes

Basically you Q the enemy to you back line and play aggressively. Pyke was made for aggressive support plays rather than defensive.

SuperCosmicHoboJun 4, 20181 votes

However, if they are in your adc's face, you can just Q drag the enemy and get them behind you.

woodvsmurphJun 4, 20181 votes

That's kinda what I thought first reading his kit. Like, he's gotta feel awesome if you're snowballing, but before you get all your abilities he must feel kinda like level 1 leona... hi I'm here, pls don't harass half my health bar away while I defend my adc from your poke. And If pyke is behind... engaging is kinda suicide in most cases so he's got almost nothing to offer 2v2 if you're losing lane by a significant margin. And his peeling - as you say - is probably worse or more difficult/unreliable than most other supports. Cool ideas in this champ's kit, but not the best overall design for a support. Seems very feast or famine with the almost need to overbuff him to make him playable at all elo - something they tried to fix with assassin midlaners when they reworked... only to introduce it in the support role lol.