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Late game teamifghts averagely last 5 seconds, that's the problem.

TyroneWatermelon··65 votes·2,351 views

and that's why league is dying, becoming anti fun. melee champs who aren't cc bots become useless, and its decided by whoever marksmen/mages clusterfuck oneshot each other first.

Edit: do you guys want to know what started this whole mess a couple of seasons ago? Say thanks to the new masteries, especially Thunderlords. Previously, you would get a slight increase in damage If you dealt a lot of damage overall, but with the introduction of thinderlords (especially when it was overpowered) it got to a whole new level. Every user got an undeserved damage chunk of burst damage output that could win Lane, trades and sometimes even teamfights. Some chimps can even trigger it with only 2 ( and even 1) without auto attacking. (looking at you Ekko, Diana, Syndra and anyone with 2 or more instances of damage in a single spell)

Quite a few examples of the consequences; -Literally everyone took thunderlords upon its release, and those who didn't, suffered the consequences. -it gave mages even more burst to kill squishies. -it gave assassins even more burst and made them even harder to counter -it made top lane bullies like Riven and Renekton unbeatable in lane -it made early game junglers especially Lee Sin and Nidalee even a stronger pick, and boosted their total amount of successful ganks -it made even pure dps marksman like Vayne and Kog take it and improve their "bad early game" -also boosted bot lane bullies like my homie Lucian. Even tanks used it, until it has been nerfed a bit and grasp has been buffed to stupidity level.

45 Comments

Zero Shingetsu17 votes

Completely agree. Way too much emphasis on offense in League these days. If I had to guess, it comes from their desire for profits. The more pro games they can cram into a timespan, the more money they make. This is one reason I never went pro in League, it's just a really poorly balanced game.

Niaphim8 votes

I agree on the "too much damage, too short teamfights" part. However, mages, except a couple of outliers, are not overbearingly strong. You have to thank adcs for the power creep they create with their raw damage.

TyroneWatermelon4 votes

{quoted}

I agree on the "too much damage, too short teamfights" part. However, mages, except a couple of outliers, are not overbearingly strong. You have to thank adcs for the power creep they create with their raw damage.

mages are the aoe spellcaster reliant with some crowd control, but their damage is too much for their safety nowdays, and then there are the braindead jack of all trades like Orianna and Syndra, and abominations like Azir

Veltox1 votes

I agree on the champions but the rest of the mage rooster with maybe Ahri's exception doesn't deserve that.

DevlinCrow4 votes

League isn't dying though?

Late-game teamfights don't last 5 seconds, not even in ARAM.

How is that statement about melee champs in any way correct? Lmfao you're just spouting out random nonsense.

In all fairness, the Board upvotes what the Board demands

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

League isn't dying though?

Late-game teamfights don't last 5 seconds, not even in ARAM.

How is that statement about melee champs in any way correct? Lmfao you're just spouting out random nonsense.

In all fairness, the Board upvotes what the Board demands

As long as Riot do not reveal player statistics, league is both dying and growing.

Most teamfight I see are full of oneshots and instakills, and decide the winner team in 5 seconds. All the rest are attempts to escape the inevitable or dish some spicy dps before dying, that's what I meant.

Yeah you better explain how( I'm talking about teamfight knowabatimsyin') in a decent/high elo, against a rounded team comp melee fighters and skirmishes(except Yasuo) who do not have some braindead cc implemented in them, actually do something. I'm talking about champions like Yi, Fiora, Tryndamere, Xin Zhao, Shaco, Pantheon, Lee sin without performing the flash kick, Nocturne , Illaoi, Garen and Loaf who fail to do any meaningful stuff without getting blowed up or generally dish out damage without dying. They have to catch someone out of position or split push like a rapist to just be relevant. That is, of course, if the enemy team knowing what they are doing.

The reason champions like Vi, Camille, Jarvan and Hecarim stay relevant is because of their braindead reliable ultimate pick, which then either they distrupt and die, or take the VIP out with the help of a fellow teammate

PePsiLemoNN4 votes

Stopped reading at ''league is dying'' lmao

Winters Dawn3 votes

So, what would you change ?

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Winters Dawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lKduTeiO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-28T21:00:07.106+0000)

So, what would you change ?

reduce mage and tanks base damages on abilities and offensive ad items, make lethality half effective on ranged champions, remove thunderlord's

Succubús GF4 votes

What the fuck. So you want to push mages, who are already in a bad spot, into a worse spot? K

TyroneWatermelon3 votes

{quoted}

What the fuck. So you want to push mages, who are already in a bad spot, into a worse spot? K

i'm really confused, what I see in my games and the boards is that mages are too strong(not all of them of course), and then I see your comment about mages being bad. i don't only want to nerf mages, but also marksmen and tanks damage. with that, tanks can become less destructive when they build fully defensive, and mages and marksmen won't melt everything.

Succubús GF4 votes

The only mages atm that I think are obnoxiously strong are Taliyah and orianna, everyone else feels very weak atm. But I for the most part agree

Elkington VI15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Winters Dawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lKduTeiO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-28T21:00:07.106+0000)

So, what would you change ?

-Make defensive masteries great again.

-Reduce snowballing.

-Remove CDR from at least half of all itemization.

-Bring back Crystal Scar

RankOneUganda1 votes

remove global gold from towers. and remove minion push.

if you revert the changes in patch 5.22 to the gold and minions. the game would be great again

Looknook5 votes

I don't agree with changing minion push back. Do you remember what it was like before the changes. The team that was ahead could simply freeze the minion waves so far away that to even try and break the freeze you just die. The changes make it so that the winning team can't just infinitely story about the losing team until they have such a gold it vantage that the losing team doesn't even stand a chance.

RankOneUganda3 votes

that never happened. NOBODY ever Froze. right now you can't fucking leave your base when your behind because unless your 5 man grouping any otehr option is shit. you're forced to clear minion waves that are pushing in and get tower dove over and over

Spoofghoul2 votes

You are both right

Neither option works fine

But that is because offense outscales defense so hard on top of the availability of penetration, If you revert the 5.22 changes then people will freeze the lane on you and you get no gold and xp falling so hard behind they can win the game off of a minor advantage

But right now the winning team gets to farm your jungle and neutral objectives, with 1 time objectives like herald and permanent drake buffs they gain an advantage you can never hope to bridge

If defensive itemization worked a bit better you could at least counterbuild and try to stall a bit or get some xp without risking death

Nyarlathοtep

The thing is that with the minions auto pushing you simple dont have a choice but to stay there to defend your weak ass turret, while the enemy spreads his advantage all over the place. And i really cant find how this is healthy.

Pandemic Punch1 votes

I have campaigned about minion pushing forever. #savetheminions

Rebonack2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elkington VI,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lKduTeiO,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-08-28T23:59:37.723+0000)

-Make defensive masteries great again.

-Reduce snowballing.

-Remove CDR from at least half of all itemization.

-Bring back Crystal Scar

This man speaks wisdom.

GorillaBearz1 votes

Honestly just get rid of damage in runes/masteries and just tweak damage in champion kits to compensate for the lost damage. But only a slight compensation beacause we need way less damage in this game right now. The damage amount in season 3 was perfect

Edit: Reduce item damage and defense as well

nGio2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Winters Dawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lKduTeiO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-28T21:00:07.106+0000)

So, what would you change ?

Put URF, AR URF, Hexakill, and One For All on a permanent rotation, and run each 7 days a week. Now I can relax, play some fun modes with friends, and not give a shit anymore.

From the absolute 1 sided shit stomps that every now and then turn into 'who's adc is bigger?', to the verbally abusive absolute scum that inhabit every game nowadays, ranked is dead for me. At least give me the good game modes CONSTANTLY, so that I can still play this game with a smile on my face.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

Put URF, AR URF, Hexakill, and One For All on a permanent rotation, and run each 7 days a week. Now I can relax, play some fun modes with friends, and not give a shit anymore.

From the absolute 1 sided shit stomps that every now and then turn into 'who's adc is bigger?', to the verbally abusive absolute scum that inhabit every game nowadays, ranked is dead for me. At least give me the good game modes CONSTANTLY, so that I can still play this game with a smile on my face.

I really hate all the game modes except ascension and doom bots, but for the sake of playing for fun and the illogical reason from Riot against permanent new game modes, they should be available. The last permanent one was ARAM in 2013 and tt is neglected with a whole different toxic meta

10 fps3 votes

League is dying?

Leetri24 votes

People's been saying that since dawn of time. As soon as there's something in the game they don't like the game is dying, apparently.

Isildurian3 votes

(trigger warning) silver players opinion (trigger warning) To be honest I recently had a top lane match up with another tank (I think it was Garen? I was playing Ornn) and it was some of the most intense fights rolling through cooldown windows and not just being blown up in 2.5 seconds like most mid lane fights.

People always bitch about 'wet noodle fights' but thats not it, its about being able to understand the situation and being able to outplay people over time instead of (Garen) stat stick presses q-e-w-q-r and either wins or loses.

People have grown so used to delete i win! or delete this game sucks! that a lot of raw strategy in the 1v1 and team fights have been abandoned in favor of two teams recreating a wall of death and it being over in 4 seconds.

This resulted in both me and my opponent having a great time with good banter and raging at the fact your cant honor opposing team members in post game :D

item 3632

NineTailedMystic3 votes

But some champions need to burst another to function.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

But some champions need to burst another to function.

A good direction could be to delay some burst for better counterplay or just fix braindead bs like Syndra and Veigar ults, and jack of all trades like orianna

Final Spark Lux2 votes

I remember at one point you could get multiple rotations of spells off in a single teamfight...then everything changed when the fire nation attacked... (sorry I couldn't help myself)

Srsly though, I agree with the point. I can build tanky all I want, teamfight isn't gonna last long enough for it to matter. Makes me really sad to see what league has become sometimes.

LadyRenly2 votes

We have supports to mitigate this, and everyone is going freaking rabid over it.

Dominick Destine2 votes

Most players that make this argument are probably very new.

Fights lasted even less in S1 and S2.... after that damage was slightly scaled back and defenses slightly improved (Ex: Remember how the penetration mastery used to give 15% pen of one type ? total armor or MR). It's also worth noting that every class had significantly less defensive options and even less hybrid options.

Stack unto that any time that the game was broken (Ex: League of Cleaver, League of Deathfire, etc.) and you had tons of times when the game had shorter team fights than we do now. New players simply weren't around for those eras.

Mizaya1 votes

I'm guessing that it's just hard to turn around a lost teamfight. It really takes a bit longer than 5 seconds to ace a team, but teamfights are usually decided pretty early on.

Violet Fields1 votes

Bard AA + Passive + item 3285 = Domination

NineTailedMystic1 votes

I think its less Thunderlord's, more a shit ton more % damage increases.

Pandemic Punch1 votes

At least it is better than the previous 2 second threshold

Sanctimonious4 votes

I remember some pretty epic 1 minute teamfights from season 5... Season 5 was the gold standard tbh

Pandemic Punch1 votes

Was season 5 the Cinderhulk meta? If so, I agree with you 1000%

Sanctimonious1 votes

Yes.

Pandemic Punch1 votes

Those were the glory days. I feel like I got it back partially with the most recent tank item updates.

AmazoX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Do Not Exist,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lKduTeiO,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-08-28T20:37:06.171+0000)

Edit: do you guys want to know what started this whole mess a couple of seasons ago? Say thanks to the new masteries, especially Thunderlords.

Its not thunder-lords at all, Its adc getting so much fucking love.

lich Roland1 votes

I think they should just nerf global gold from turrets and nerf cc

Spoofghoul2 votes

I think they shouldn't nerf cc

i agree with the turret gold though, at least the turret firstblood. Th global gold mostly benefits those who have trouble obtaining gold like people who got put behind a lot by repeated camps and supports who aren't farming.

I think the movement boosts on the zeal items should be made unique, and items like ludens echo should lose some of their % movement in favor of something like the rage passive

The we can look at nerfing spammy soft cc on ranged champions.

I think that would help a lot more then just nerfing cc across the board

Kovorix1 votes

I would love to see a damage reduction in the whole game by 25% or even more. Its just oneshot or get oneshotted.

Rafatinoni1 votes

I don't think it would be good. Burst champions (specially AP) would have a much, much harder time because spending all the abilities wouldn't usually kill a squishy like it used to.

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