What's the deal with Riven? (not a QQ thread)

Vesarixx·Oct 17, 2015·3 votes·1,084 views

I see a lot of threads on here complaining about Riven, how she's supposedly OP, how there is apparently no counter play and she just auto wins lanes. Personally though I've never really had an issue dealing with Riven, in fact I've normally found it to be a pretty easy lane. So I'm wondering what the story is here, what is it about Riven that gives people so much trouble?

Also if she is as good as people keep saying she is, then she might be worth adding to my champion pool, aside from the obvious mechanical stuff like animation cancelling, anything I should know about playing the champion?

19 Comments

SpartenA7991Oct 17, 20153 votes

Because instead of practicing to play against a riven, they would rather complain and hope Riot does what they want instead of actually putting effort into their own game.

VesarixxOct 17, 20151 votes

This seems to happen with a lot of champions, I think I've even seen one for poppy in the past.

SpartenA7991Oct 17, 20151 votes

There is a case against everyone. I think i've even seen one for taric.

Irelia BotOct 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There is a case against everyone. I think i've even seen one for taric.

Taric is OP because... Gems are truely outragous

They are truly truly truly outragous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSLhrIuAZak

Neo CyrusDec 3, 20153 votes

Riven is a terrible champion right now, every type of item she needs has been changed in a way that no longer works for her (CDR decreased, increased in cost, raw AD decreased in favour of crit, etc). If her win rate is ever around 50% the whining is endless, if it's below it they still say she's OP half the time even though her stats mostly come from mains which actually bloats the number compared to other champions who don't have as many mains.

Here's something the low Elo shitters won't tell you: Riven is quite likely the highest skillcap champion in the game and almost no one can properly make use of her animation canceling. There's a thread every day bitching about her being able to do that when most her power budget is actually put into that, as in her other aspects are kept super weak because she does have such animation canceling. Here's the kicker: Not a single one of those whiny mongos has ever encountered Riven properly animation canceling in their shitty low Gold to Bronze 5 games.

Most people I encountered who thought they were doing it right were actually not saving any frames, they were just clicking and achieving nothing. I have yet to encounter anyone from low Plat to low Diamond who does it properly. Unlike almost everything else in the game, her animation canceling being done with proper timings AND spacing (to make it worth doing as opposed to a net gain of zero) requires quite a bit of muscle memory and reaction time comparable to a fighting game. That's saying a lot for a game like League where people regularly played with over 100 ping because it requires no reflexes for the most part. Riven is the exception to the rule.

VesarixxDec 3, 20151 votes

I'd really like to learn how to do the animation cancelling, not really for the sake of climbing ranked but because it sounds pretty interesting, since you seem to know a fair amount about it do you have any tips on how to develop the muscle memory for it or what to look for to confirm I'm doing it properly?

Neo CyrusDec 3, 20151 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azfhS76_6fE

Keep in mind that the spacing matters as well, moving or not moving could ruin the timing. Like on a stationary target if you click with your mouse beyond the target it'd move Riven forward rather than standing in place so your timing is screwed and you save no frames. The average player would actually lose frames in that scenario. Edit: Boxbox mentions it himself in the video, I haven't watched it before.

Anyone can do her auto Q cancel auto type combo with enough practice in a custom game on a stationary target, but doing it on the fly in a real game against an opponent good as you, that's an entirely different story.

Muscle memory develops with practice, there is no way around it, making a custom game and repeating it over and over is one way. That's what most people should do to get a basic grasp of it. You'll know if you're doing it properly because you should be able to see it saves a tiny amount of time.

VesarixxDec 4, 20151 votes

Thanks, I've seen the video before but it couldn't hurt to watch again, I'm usually pretty good at developing muscle memory in a short time.

7zhas1oVlIOct 17, 20152 votes

Most people on the boards are just >gold ELOs that get stomped by a certain champion then make a flame thread about it. I saw a thread about how NAMI was "gamebreaking." NAMI. Riven, being a champion that people usually ONLY PLAY, and being a frequent smurf-heavy champion in said low ELOs is an easy target for these flame threads from the boards.

MitsuOct 17, 20152 votes

Heavy snowball champ with immense powerspike at lvl 6 and extremely high burst potential on top of mobility. Shits on low elo hard, which is the majority of the board's playerbase

ShinTwistOct 17, 20151 votes

Riven is the Chuck Norris of G&B. Her sword has its own blackbelt.

TilomentryOct 17, 20151 votes

Riven being OP is debatable but she doesn't auto-win lanes and it's not entirely a lack of counter play. Its more that she lacks a clear weakness that can be capatalized on. Riven's kit is one such that, she is able to go into any matchup and have all the tools to compete with any champion without ever having a clear disadvantage. Because of this, all her matchups are skill matchups. There's no right decision to make against Riven. You either are a more mechnicaly skilled than the Riven player or you aren't. Some might argue that, a 100% mechanical skill matchup seems fair but it isn't on 2 levels.

First LoL as a whole is a game that is very heavily dependent on making the right decisions. Like saving an Alistar headbutt to disengage a Fiddlesticks ult rather than using it to engage the enemy team with a headbutt-knock up combo.

Second, while beating Riven requires her opponent to be mechanically better than the Riven player, the reverse isn't true. Most other champions in the game have a weakness that their opponents can capatalize on (long CDs, lack of dueling/hard engage, etc.) and this means that the Riven player is usually given the option of making a decsion of when and/or how to fight her opponent. It's very frustrating for her opponents when they have to be extremely careful not to expose those weaknesses but Riven doesn't really need to worry about that.

VesarixxOct 17, 20151 votes

That would explain why I don't have issues with Riven then, mechanics are one of my strong points. It seems like there are quite a lot of champions that should be able to deal with riven whether they have better mechanics or not, Volibear apparently does well vs her and all he does is run at people.

Irelia BotOct 17, 20151 votes

what does riven have? good damage with lots of AD scaling and short cooldowns one of which is a shield and good mobility.

What doesn't riven have? built in sustain, ranged auto attacks, resistance to CC, constant tankyness.

If you play riven's game you will lose so don't play her game. Poke her down in lane when her shield has been used and she will at some point not be able to safely start a fight. She is strong early game but needs to keep getting a lot of gold to stay relevant. If you can make a riven somewhat gold deprived she often has a hard time getting back in unless her team helps her.

VesarixxOct 17, 20151 votes

She is based on fighting game characters so it seems like a big part of dealing with her is spacing, if you keep the right amount of distance from her it nullifies a lot of her potential damage, since she needs to use Q to get to you and probably E to disengage.

ninjaIRL Oct 17, 20151 votes

I think Riven is the most frustrating champion to have to deal with in top lane, not counting some range champions. She's got 4 dashes. Extremely disruptive kit. Zero costs. High damage with basic attacks and abilities. Very good damage soaking with E if she gets an AD item or two. Mostly the combination of high mobility + high disruption in her kit is the reason why she gets QQed more than any other lane stomping champion.

Rumble has zero costs as well, but low mobility and hardly a disruptive kit (no hard CC).

Renekton has one Hard CC ability which is much easier to avoid; it's AA procced and not AoE. He's got 2 dashes in one ability that is on a high cooldown.

Darius has zero mobility, a slow and a hard CC hook. Definitely a contender but his kit is not as disruptive as Riven.

Damage isn't really what I'm focussing on when it comes to the frustrating experience of playing against Riven. It's utility of ability kits and general ease of survivability which can anger a lot of impatient players in low MMR who just want to kill her because of her annoying kit.

SpartenA7991Oct 17, 20151 votes

Yasuo Infinite dashes on a 0.1 second cooldown Passive double crit chance passive shield knock up on 3rd point blank skillshot shield that blocks almost everything at lvl 6 he gets 50% armor pen