A 2.5 Instant-cast AOE Stun is Complete BS

To be perfectly honest you needed to land E on the edge for immediate stun if you were agressing on somebody. Just getting him in a cage does nothing when the person can retaliate and 1 shot you back or cc you. It only worked if you didn't hit the person on the edge if a) you were too ahead for them to fight back, b) they're bad and don't realize the position they're in, c) you're running away and hope people don't blink over the edges once in.

People pretend like his E was that easy to hit on the edge against an aware opponent and people forget that unless they're playing wrong for veig to somehow be miles ahead of them, if veig didnt insta stun, you kind of danced around outside of his other spell ranges (with the preposition you had something to threathen him back if he got in range of it) and easily avoid the huge delay W and agressed back. So much lacking of counterplay, much wow.

It's not like he points and clicks you for suppression that you basically need cleanse for. Awareness of ranges and baiting important spells out is still counter play in my book.

EDIT:

I can see why people would be confused let's take an old school s1 version of a matchup (which didn't happen because veigar was considered bad due to his pathetic laning): brand vs veigar, 2 immobile mages. Now the matchup would go that veig would basically have to be some sort of a dance magician to not get poked out of lane pre 6 (he still would unless the brand was really bad). And let's a assume veig wants to stun him at 6 (wouldn't kill him from 100% either way, not enough burst). He gets in the very real situation of brand moving unpredictably and ends up getting brand in the cage but not stunned. Now he W's and tries to get in range for Q R. Brand's W Q massively outrange the veig so he can easily side step the W because of its delay and threathens veig by having his W Q up. If veig tries to come in for a R Q brand will not die (To be honest if done properly veigar would get combo stunned before he could click R or Q) from it not even close and veig will eat the stun in his face because of the cast animation making him stand still. By this time the cage is gone and brand is free to fully agress on him and possibly kill him or at least force a flash.

It'd always be a different match up with different champions but you get the general idea of what a threat that prevents him from moving into R Q range without stunning immediatly means.

EDIT 2: but these are skill nuanced situations you can't expect people to even think of. Because you're not forced to think, you can just cry that something's bullshit without even trying. Works every time, but at the price of people staying at the same elo.

Uhh... No

Counterplay is what ACTIONS you can take in a situation. Literally "What play can you make to counter it?" You're referring to counterbuild, or "What can I build to counter my opponent?"

counter build example I'm Nasus, and ima stack some armor so Riven cant faceroll me counter play example I'm Nasus, and ima bait Riven's Q so I can farm for the next 6 seconds without her faceroll me

see the difference? ;l

Counter-build. A different thing to counterplay.

Ok.

Ok.

"Plus, of course, the new mechanic is almost identical to ult (except for being an actual stun instead of a slow)." From a mechanic perspective this is not accurate.

Thresh's ult is an ability that is used primarily after an engage has occurred. In it's usual use, he engages and damages an opponent with Q, moves to them and then uses The Box which with 99% slow for two seconds is actually a root for all purposes (except a few ability interactions). Then the ADC moves in and acts as consistent damage to the target. You see the difference? Of course the ult will hit. In most of the scenarios in which the ult is used, Thresh has leapt to the target making it certain they'll be enclosed and hit by the wall moving away and taking damage from it (another difference, by the way) and if they stand still they'll just by Flay'ed into the wall anyway. Also, the ADC would soon be attacking them, making this comparison even more inaccurate in the real world scenarios.

Meanwhile, Veigar's E's use is entirely different from The Box. While Thresh has it as an additional powerful tool to his kit, Veigar is a squishy, immobile champ whose E has to perform as his only defense, engagement tool and escape simultaneously and is required to even use his W. Further, there is no consistent damage in a Veigar lane, only having brief windows where he can do damage in. Having times where a champion would pose no threat of retaliation provides a great opportunity that presents a significant danger to said champion, which is why Veigar has immediate use of his only defense.

These two abilities are enormously different in their mechanics; This analogy cannot be leveled.

bla bla bla bla thres ults dmg

Magic Damage: 250 / 400 / 550 (+ 100% AP)

thresh has 1 stun and and aoe airborne

thresh also has dark passage (W) and this steriod on his E Magic Damage: Damnation.png Souls + up to 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200% AD.

He can also get almost "infinite ap" from his pasive , and he gets armor too.

Ur comparison of 1 skill to the other leaves a lot of details aside the favor thresh.

Right, I'm not going to disagree. Doesn't change anything I said about Veigar though. Riot just...plays favorites I guess.