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Lucian needs to be nerfed - even after 4.18

Junkyard··28 votes·4,156 views

I just find it somewhat humorous that no other champ comes to my mind who's weakness is being too strong. The only way I have found to beat Lucian is not mechanical or items, but that the Lucian has to be somewhat stupid, and you have to catch him doing something stupid.

That being said, Lucians get away with doing stupid things very often, and it is merely the properties of the champ that saves them, not individual skill or knowledge of the game. I mean just getting a flash out of the guy is a victory in itself.

Lucian is so strong that, when he is played, there is just a complete dominance of the lane. If you are a superior player, you can still easily get screwed over by his insane burst. However, when you have the advantage and attempt to use it, he simply dashes away.

There is no beating a good Lucian in lane. I, myself play Lucian quite often and I am constantly calling BS with most of my OP maneuvers. I literally feel bad for the other adc. The skill level to play Lucian is so low, yet he has so much mobility and can make plays very easily. I mean, there is such a skill gap in my mind between a good Vayne, for example, and a good Lucian. Vayne requires so much more practice and skill than the champion that simply dashes to you, autos, Q's, autos, and by this time, over half of your HP is likely gone, and you've only been able to reply with maybe 1/4 of his health.

I have played countless games against, and as, Lucian. Many of which as his hardest "counter", Vayne. There is no counter to this guy, he is BS.

Either he needs to be nerfed, or virtually all other Marksmen need to be buffed in order to keep up with this new game.

EDIT: For a nerf, I would suggest a slightly longer reaction time for his Q (even with 90 ping, it is nearly impossible to dodge), that his passive does not crit, and even perhaps that relentless pursuit does not go through walls (this guy escapes too well). If you can't do the last one, at least buff Vayne to be able to tumble through walls...

74 Comments

Hayaishi19 votes

His overpowered passive needs to stop critting.

Nameless Voice8 votes

I always felt that his burst damage was oppressively high. So, they tried to fix that by reducing his range, and giving him a lot of extra buffs to compensate. His burst was still insane. So they reverted some of those buffs, but they still didn't touch his damage.

Lucian is similar to Ezreal - high mobility and good poke - but Ezreal pays for that power by being relatively low-damage compared to other ADCs; Lucian has similar strengths but doesn't pay for it with that weakness.

ProfDrDeath4 votes

Ezreal, unlike Lucian, is also mostly single target, with bad waveclear.

What they could do with Lucian is to have Q deal half damage to minions and remove the 4x damage to minions multiplier from R.

KidKaiser2 votes

basically revert his Q changes. used to deal what. 60% to minions?

now it's just ridiculous.

shppy7 votes

Yeah, it was such a great idea to give Lucian a stronger version of Riven's level 18 passive. I mean Riven's been a debatably overpowered lane bully as a melee primarily because of that passive, so what harm could come of giving Lucian a ranged version and more-than doubling its level 1 strength, while adding in a bunch of extra features Riven's can't do (like apply 2 procs, crit, and affect towers)?

Not really a surprise that he's got it though; typical ranged bias. Besides, 'he's got two guns, we need to cram in ways to make him use both, regardless of balance'... same reason Thresh is ranged despite the fact that he's clearly not balanced for it, they felt like throwing an extra mech onto his kit to accentuate his visual design.

Manslayer20134 votes

But MF hardly uses both of her guns!

shppy4 votes

But MF hardly uses both of her guns!

MFs literal guns aren't the focus of her visual design... the figurative ones are.

Dryditch3 votes

You... Sure about that?

Registeel12346 votes

I think Lucian's problem is his passive. What do you guys think about this:

Lightslinger (Passive) can no longer Crit. Lightslinger (Passive) now has a 2/1/0 second Cooldown. (Decresing at lvl 11 and 16)

Numbers should be tweaked ofc.

AtheosisX5 votes

I think it's rather obvious Lucian is overpowered. He's by far the most played champion for a reason.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

He´s fun?

and waaay overhyped.

AtheosisX3 votes

He´s fun?

and waaay overhyped.

He's not the most played champion in Challenger because he's fun. Come on now.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

nah, that´s because

  • he´s overhyped
  • he doesn´t need a competent team to do his job, unlike some stronger carries like Twitch and Kog - so he´s stronger in SoloQ than in 5v5
AtheosisX1 votes

He is picked extremely heavily in solo and team queue, so that doesn't hold up.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

yea, he´s also picked extreme heavily in worlds....and still he remains with ~50%winrate while the likes of twitch are at ~80%winrate. Many people are just not confident in their 2v2 abilities and think they can cheese themselves a win there by picking Lucian.

OneSlickPhony5 votes

B-But... muh small mana cost on my dash until max rank hit my freelo main so hard...

Tadiken4 votes

Believe it or not, his general weakness is actually a lack of damage. Literally, his ONLY steroid is his passive. Caitlyn is the only other adc with this kind of mechanic, and is known for having ridiculously low overall damage output compared to other carries, in exchange for her other strengths such as range.

Lucian's passive is a lot more straight power than Caitlyn's, though, as it can be used multiple times easily, and he has an auto attack reset. His e is barely an auto reset though, and can start delaying your auto attack if your attack speed gets around 2.0. His general disadvantage, I will say again, comes from the fact that every other adc in the game has some form of steroid or range advantage over him, sometimes both. He also lacks a disengage, packing only one escape, where his most often compared character, Vayne, has an escape, a stealth, and a disengage. She also has two of the better steroids in the game, +70 ad and silver bolts are nothing to scoff at, where tumble eventually becomes a better, while shorter range, version of Lucian's e in sheer stats.

How do you beat Lucian, then? The answer is to not lose. He is a lane bully, don't try to beat him in lane, let him make a mistake, or instead just try to make it to late game. Any adc with a superior steroid will just outright outdamage Lucian if you are similar in gold. Draven, for example, can be down half an item, but because of the sheer steroids on his kit, can kill Lucian first in a duel, and also packs one of the better range disengages in the game, performing similarly to how you would use Thresh's Flay.

All of this is why Tristana is still the most popular adc in high ranked play. While she may have issues early game, being outranged by caitlyn and outdamaged by anyone with a nuke, if she gets to late game, she has an on-demand huge steroid with the best constant basic attack range in the game, allowing her to just deal more damage than every other marksman in the game reliably. She's also packing one of the highest range leaps in the game, arguably the best disengage in the game, and grievous wounds.

Why, then, would you pick Lucian over Tristana? Early game strengths, with still decent late game mobility and not half bad damage output. But almost exclusively early game strengths.

Don't play to win, play to not lose.

Junkyard4 votes

Don't play to win, play to not lose.

Personally, I play to outplay and outsmart. But Lucian's kit makes him immune to virtually any outplay, and very difficult to outsmart when you are constantly half health, behind in CS, and hoping that laning will end soon.

That being said, Lucian can outplay/do stupid things without repercussions, unlike any other adc. I mean, the things I get away with as Lucian are facepalm worthy.

When it comes to cait, I understand that she is a lane bully, that is her thing. But I can 1 v 1 her easily with Draven, Twitch, Vayne, I mean, you name the adc and you can probably beat Cait 1 v 1. She has a legitimate weakness, but at the same time, she has 650 range, which is certainly a legitimate strength.

Lucian dominates in lane, excels in 1 v 1, and his teamfight is also fantastic because of his mobility and aoe damage. The burst from his passive is stupid. In general this guy needs to be changed.

Tadiken3 votes

Lucian's outplay is literally the same mechanic that Vayne has. Vayne's is superior when maxed in a general situation, unless Lucian burns his whole kit on passive chaining. He also has no cc, no disengage, and his damage is still sub-par when it comes to sheer dps compared to other adcs, again, like Vayne.

Dominick Destine3 votes

no disengage

Not sure if troll...

Earl Eulrich2 votes

Well, it´s hard for lucian to get into range without dashing first...leaving him without disengage if he commits.

Junkyard4 votes

This is just not the case. I have 40% cdr at 10 mins with my standard build and I can easily dash out of anything I dash in to.

ProfDrDeath3 votes

Dash in, get autos off (-4 sec), use skill, get autos off (-4 sec), dash out again. Where's the problem?

Tadiken1 votes

A disengage is a cc designed to put distance between you and your opponent. Caitlyn's 90 calibur net is a disengage, Lucian's Relentless Pursuit is an escape. Not a very good one, at that.

Dominick Destine2 votes

A disengage is a cc designed to put distance between you and your opponent. Caitlyn's 90 calibur net is a disengage, Lucian's Relentless Pursuit is an escape. Not a very good one, at that.

A disengage by definition is anything that allows you to end an engagement between you and an adversary. Lucian's dash is a disengage, a VERY good one given it's high range, speed, low mana cost and low cooldown maintenance.

Caitlyn's net wishes it were Lucian's dash.

Tadiken2 votes

To be fair, sivir's ult + spellshield is competitively considered a disengage because of it having a high burst of movespeed then low stat. Lucian can always e out, w-ult and just kite like a motherfucker. So yeah, sure, call it a minor disengage. Tristana still has the best in the game.

Earl Eulrich4 votes

just pick draven and watch lucian cry underneath his turret for the whole laning phase....or just pick anything else, play smart and outscale him. Lucian is a solid carry with solid dmg during all stages of the game, but he´s far from unbeatable during laning - and really far from being a hypercarry.

Junkyard3 votes

I play a good Draven. And Lucian is not an issue when you play Draven. No ADC can shut Draven down. However there is very little skill needed for a SUPPORT to shut Draven down.

Adc's don't beat Draven, supports do.

Junkyard4 votes

I mean, I really thought that the mana cost on his relentless pursuit was going to be a factor. I had hope that it was. But I was just playing against a Lucian who spammed it relentlessly, and I was like "at least he is going to run out of mana", but that was not the case.

THE NEW WAY TO PLAY LUCIAN (POST 4.18): Bully so hard that you are ahead in CS. Use extra money to buy 1/2 mana pots. NEW LUCIAN = OLD LUCIAN

Ya Boy Drone4 votes

First of all, Vayne only counters Lucian with a really good support matchup. Second, Corki and Cait do just fine against him. I agree he needs to be balanced but not nerfed. They need to raise a couple of other adc's up just a bit. The randuins buff is about to hit ADC's pretty hard imo and i think that lucian, trist and corki arent that strong atm (maybe trist still) but other adc's are weak. Forget about playing an adc without a dash when every mid can 100 to 0 you and tanks are walking around with a buffed randuins

JAG R3volver1 votes

First of all, Vayne only counters Lucian with a really good support matchup. Second, Corki and Cait do just fine against him. I agree he needs to be balanced but not nerfed. They need to raise a couple of other adc's up just a bit. The randuins buff is about to hit ADC's pretty hard imo and i think that lucian, trist and corki arent that strong atm (maybe trist still) but other adc's are weak. Forget about playing an adc without a dash when every mid can 100 to 0 you and tanks are walking around with a buffed randuins

it's like people are avoiding the fact that assassin/ burst mage meta is resurging again.

Hasztalan23 votes

No he doesn't need nerf. Other adcs need buffs. Along with everything in this game. Stop. The.Fucking. Nerfing. Cycle. Simple as taht. Cuz what happens if you nerf "Lucian" and "Tristana"? Another "Lucian" or "Trist" will shop up. And the cycle will repeat itself. But if moreelo and his fucking amateur band would just once start buffing other champs so they can actually COMPETE in a position with healthy power curve, well fuck yeah that would be good.

Or we can listen to totally ignorant idiots QQ like you, and remove every ability in the game which deals damage, remoev every summoners which are useful and end up with the most boring game ever. Oh wait its already happening for years now. They could just change the game name into a League of Boredomness.

Srsly what's wrong that we have an adc who is capable of making any kind of plays on his own? Why is it hard to accept that certian champs being strong does not influences gaming experience in negative way , but rather the opposite., Nerfing him will just allow another adc to dominate his lane. I myself very happy with his mini rework, as he is truly that short range brawling adc (what graves should be by the way, IF THE DID NOT FUCKING NERF THE HELL OUT OF HIM AS WELL).

So no. Don't nerf him. Buff other adcs.

Dryditch3 votes

Personally, I'd like to avoid power crawl wherever possible. If that means taking a sledgehammer to some jackass's main, then so be it.

Seriously, what's wrong? Twitch makes plays, Sivir makes plays, Ashe makes plays. None of them, however, have a built in Flash on their kit, with the rest of it designed with little to no counterplay.

Show me how you counterplay a Lucian... stay out of range of his AA? Ok. I'll do that, then get hit by Q/W, dashed in,pummeled by doubles w/ crits, and then i'm down to half health. He's sitting pretty at 4/5 health because all I could do was get off one attack/skill. And then he'll spam a skill again and dash out.

You want to buff other ADCs? Great, so now everyone else will be unable to even engage because they'll be dead instantly. Just nerf the ones at the top. Let player skill decide.

Kuroi862 votes

So what? Do you think he deals too much damage? Is too safe? It kind of helps to point out where you think his strengths are too strong and his weaknesses aren't weak enough.

Dryditch8 votes

Both of those are problems, as are his mobility, range, and just about everything else about him.

We know Rito wants to make him the mobility ADC, so we can cut that. But honestly, he shouldn't be able to spam his skills, do more damage than anything else on the rift, hit you from outside your turret... Each of those would be fine on its own... I'd be fine with him having (very) low damage, high mobility, and a range like Twitch's ult, or high damage, high mobility, and no range with long cooldowns or high mana costs... make it harder for him to bully the crap out of you.

Lucian was left unbanned very few times during Worlds so far, and every time he resulted in a snowball for his team. At the pro level, that shouldn't be possible.

Kuroi861 votes

No champ has very low damage, every champ has viable damage, as it should be. His range is on the lower half of ADC, though not the lowest by far. His damage is good, not the highest, but certainly still good.
His mobility is very reliant upon his combo, without which, he would have less mobility than Teemo. His cool downs are decent, 9/14/18 at rank one each. His mana looks to be the only place where he's been given some space to really breath. At lvl 3 he can get off two full combos before needing to wait for his mana to regen. This isn't atypical, but it's on the more forgiving side. Many champs can pull off something like that, a few though have more demanding mana costs, but not by much. I suppose it's feasible he could handle a minor cost increase, but I'm not about to go jumping to any conclusions.

A couple of questions I think should be asked.
What is Lucians weakness/counter? How many people properly take advantage of this weakness/counter?

cshakes2 votes
  1. Pick Tristana
  2. Pick a support who's powerful early
  3. Pick an OP jungler
  4. Have your jungler gank often during earlygame
  5. Hope you have a Tristana going full Reset Party on everyone (For maximum Reset Party, be sure to pick Katarina, Kha'Zix and Darius.)
Junkyard6 votes

EXACTLY MY POINT. Your entire team needs to be centered around stopping this guy...

Colgate Gator6 votes
  1. Pick Tristana

Your plan fails, right here, Tristana is Perma-ban material atm.

Dryditch5 votes

No champ has very low damage, every champ has viable damage, as it should be.

Never said anyone had low damage. I'm saying he should have significantly lowered damage.

His range is on the lower half of ADC, though not the lowest by far.

Then please explain to me how he can kill an enemy support who's BEHIND their turret without stepping into the turret's firing radius. Even Twitch can't do that with his ult up.

His mobility is very reliant upon his combo, without which, he would have less mobility than Teemo.

His combo's broken, then. (We're talking about how broken he is, ya know).

His cool downs are decent, 9/14/18 at rank one each.

Taught me something new. I just happen to see him spam skills and then I die.

His mana looks to be the only place where he's been given some space to really breath. At lvl 3 he can get off two full combos before needing to wait for his mana to regen. This isn't atypical, but it's on the more forgiving side. Many champs can pull off something like that, a few though have more demanding mana costs, but not by much.

Mana costs are not high enough, in my opinion. Take a look at how melee champs' skills are priced in terms of mana (Malphite, for example, has absurdly high mana costs at early levels, which he can rectify late game).

I suppose it's feasible he could handle a minor cost increase, but I'm not about to go jumping to any conclusions.

We're not talking about what he could "handle." We've determined he's a broken champion who absolutely needs to be repaired. Nerf him hardcore.

A couple of questions I think should be asked.
What is Lucians weakness/counter?

Far as I can tell, nothing but pure domination by way of incredibly skilled/lucky adc/support and heavy ganking.

How many people properly take advantage of this weakness/counter?

None. At all...because it's hard.

Now... I'm going to bring Sion into this.

Sion is a champion built around counterplay... which totally fucked him (excuse my langauge) out of his lane viability. He's WEAK to anyone who can move. I'm not proposing they fuck Lucian hard enough that he joins the ranks of the Olaf region, I'm just suggesting a nice pounding so he gets dropped down a few pegs... somewhere above Sion... then maybe they can put some effort into pulling their heads out from where the sun don't shine and fixing Sion/Olaf.

Junkyard3 votes

I absolutely agree with this post.

So, when I'm against a Lucian, I am basically forced to play Jinx or Cait, because otherwise I won't have enough range to trade fairly... I like playing other champions, but the fact that this guy is sooo strong in lane makes it impossible. That, along with the fact that he is picked practically every game in ranked makes it extremely nonviable to play anyone else.

Dryditch2 votes

Thanks :)

I try to be as unbiased as possible, but there are two or three champions I absolutely despise... Lucian being one of them.

I'm not even ranked yet, and I know how fucking annoying he is. He's the AD equivalent of everyone's least favorite fish.

Junkyard2 votes

just wait until you are laning against a diamond-smurf Lucian. It's such a good time, and makes you love LoL even more!

Dryditch1 votes

Think I've already done that...

My main support is Malphite... if that tells you anything. Back that up with Fiddlesticks if I can't use Mal.

I was in lane with a... Cait, I think? Built pure health for tankiness, and went from 5K-ish health to 1K in a single Lucian combo. That includes the shield on Malphite.

Lucian became insta-ban for me after that.

Kuroi863 votes

Never said anyone had low damage. I'm saying he should have significantly lowered damage.

His damage still needs to be viable.

Then please explain to me how he can kill an enemy support who's BEHIND their turret without stepping into the turret's firing radius. Even Twitch can't do that with his ult up.

Varus can, it's called a skill shot. Lucians' basic attack is rather short on range, his skill shots aren't as strong on their own. He needs to combo in order to fully be effective. His poke is okay, but his all in is where his strength is.

His combo's broken, then. (We're talking about how broken he is, ya know).

No, you're talking about how overpowered he is. Broken suggests something is not working as intended, which is closer to a bug than anything. (Yes I'm a stickler for these things. It's easy to let feelings overpower reason and get to thinking things that may not be true.)

Taught me something new. I just happen to see him spam skills and then I die.

Who do you play in lane?

Mana costs are not high enough, in my opinion. Take a look at how melee champs' skills are priced in terms of mana (Malphite, for example, has absurdly high mana costs at early levels, which he can rectify late game).

Actually, Malphite has a much more forgiving game than you think. He can also use his full QWE at lvl 3 twice before needing to wait for mana. Of course, unlike Lucian he can build mana right from the start, sapphire crystal builds into items that Malphite will use. I'm not certain Lucian can do that without building a sheen item.

We're not talking about what he could "handle." We've determined he's a broken champion who absolutely needs to be repaired. Nerf him hardcore.

Again, not broken, I think you mean overpowered. And we are still discussing this. I've seen plenty of Lucian fail, typically due to being overaggressive against the wrong lanes. This is why we are discussing this.

Far as I can tell, nothing but pure domination by way of incredibly skilled/lucky adc/support and heavy ganking.

I don't do ADC often, but from what I'm told, out ranging his basic attack can allow for heavy poke against him, it also helps to have a support with strong disengage to keep his support from locking down the AD while Lucian goes ham. I don't see many Lucian though lol, then again I loathe ranked games.

None. At all...because it's hard.

As for as range is concerned, there's actually many that out range him, simply a matter of practice, but then again, we may be wrong.

Now... I'm going to bring Sion into this. Sion is a champion built around counterplay... which totally fucked him (excuse my langauge) out of his lane viability. He's WEAK to anyone who can move. I'm not proposing they fuck Lucian hard enough that he joins the ranks of the Olaf region, I'm just suggesting a nice pounding so he gets dropped down a few pegs... somewhere above Sion... then maybe they can put some effort into pulling their heads out from where the sun don't shine and fixing Sion/Olaf.

Lol, Olaf can still dominate lane, seen it happen a lot. He does need a bit of a light rework though so he can be buffed back up though. Sion' rework just recently came out. I think he could use some minor number tweaking, but otherwise he's in a MUCH better place than he was and can be made viable for ranked play now. It's simply a matter of figuring out his kit (Which I do enjoy) and a good build and hoping for some minor buffs lol. Otherwise they are both not in as bad a place as people claim. Lucian is a favored AD for his mobility and burst, he's hardly the end all of ADC, people just like playing mobility above utility right now, doesn't mean that mobility is op. >_^

Dryditch2 votes

Then please explain to me how he can kill an enemy support who's BEHIND their turret without stepping into the turret's firing radius. Even Twitch can't do that with his ult up.

Varus can, it's called a skill shot. Lucians' basic attack is rather short on range, his skill shots aren't as strong on their own. He needs to combo in order to fully be effective. His poke is okay, but his all in is where his strength is.

That's a pretty absurd mechanic, then. To have enough range that you can reach from outside a turret's range to near the other side of its range with nothing but a skillshot? I take Sivir bot sometimes (rarely play ADC), and even her Q doesn't have that range.

No, you're talking about how overpowered he is. Broken suggests something is not working as intended, which is closer to a bug than anything. (Yes I'm a stickler for these things. It's easy to let feelings overpower reason and get to thinking things that may not be true.)

To me, Broken just means completely lacking in counterplay. I have seen no way to defeat a Lucian like you can defeat a Tristana, or a Nasus, or a Syndra, or anyone else.

Who do you play in lane?

I main Malph/Fid support or Old Sion top, but I'm picking up Singed, Nasus, and some other tops/Jungles lately.

Malphite has a much more forgiving game than you think. He can also use his full QWE at lvl 3 twice before needing to wait for mana. Of course, unlike Lucian he can build mana right from the start, sapphire crystal builds into items that Malphite will use. I'm not certain Lucian can do that without building a sheen item.

Sure, but let's look at the effectiveness of those skills. Malph's Q is his only real range, and does decent damage. His W's not bad, but is really only good when you've gotten close enough to your opponent to actually land multiple AA. E is a pretty limited range and can rarely secure a kill while the opp is running. Malph has no disengage, no chase... nothing even close to Lucian's kit. For the skill/situations required for Malph to be effective, those mana costs are too damn high.

I don't do ADC often, but from what I'm told, out ranging his basic attack can allow for heavy poke against him, it also helps to have a support with strong disengage to keep his support from locking down the AD while Lucian goes ham. I don't see many Lucian though lol, then again I loathe ranked games.

I'm not a big ADC player either, but I play enough support to hate the living crap out of Lucian. I can ult, E, W, continue attacking, launch a q, and he'll just relentless pursuit away and i've wasted my entire kit... leaving him at 1/4 health or something.

Lol, Olaf can still dominate lane, seen it happen a lot. He does need a bit of a light rework though so he can be buffed back up though. Sion' rework just recently came out. I think he could use some minor number tweaking, but otherwise he's in a MUCH better place than he was and can be made viable for ranked play now. It's simply a matter of figuring out his kit (Which I do enjoy) and a good build and hoping for some minor buffs lol.

I haven't played enough recent Olaf to talk intelligently, but he's considered the poster-boy for having been gutted. Sion, however, I can talk about. Sion used to be all about entering the fight and bringing pain once he got to you. AD Sion was fun, and even if that Stun/Shield AP combo was toxic, there's a simple solution... Turn Q skillshot, W gets AD instead of AP Scaling. And honestly... I miss my Ult... nothing felt better than walking in, healing my team, and making them focus me while my team just wrecked face around me. I said it in another post... The new ult is his charge through the men, the old ult is his fight with Jarvan's guards... and that's where Sion's identity really lies for me.

Lucian is a favored AD for his mobility and burst, he's hardly the end all of ADC, people just like playing mobility above utility right now, doesn't mean that mobility is op. >_^

Still think he's a giant walking dick of a champ.

Kuroi862 votes

That's a pretty absurd mechanic, then. To have enough range that you can reach from outside a turret's range to near the other side of its range with nothing but a skillshot? I take Sivir bot sometimes (rarely play ADC), and even her Q doesn't have that range.

It is absurd, it can also be dodged. Good timing can help most champs side step most skill shots, it's risk/reward. It can be argued that range or speed could be too good, but you've still got to go through Riot for that lol. Skill shots are also very good for sieges, stay out of range of the targeted stuns and what not while poking down the enemy team.

I main Malph/Fid support or Old Sion top, but I'm picking up Singed, Nasus, and some other tops/Jungles lately.

Lol I've heard Malph support is good, though heavy on the Ks. xD Support, I typically go with Leona, Karma, Taric or Soraka. FYI, one of those times I've seen Lucian, I dueled and beat him with Taric. xD It was hilarious, granted I think this was pre rebalancing for him, it was also pretty late in the game.

Sure, but let's look at the effectiveness of those skills. Malph's Q is his only real range, and does decent damage. His W's not bad, but is really only good when you've gotten close enough to your opponent to actually land multiple AA. E is a pretty limited range and can rarely secure a kill while the opp is running. Malph has no disengage, no chase... nothing even close to Lucian's kit. For the skill/situations required for Malph to be effective, those mana costs are too damn high.

That's because Frozen Heart or Iceborn Gauntlet are pretty much core items on him. Even without building them though, it's possible to overcome his mana issues with smart spacing of your skills and a mana pot or two. Also consider, as a tank, Malphite plays for the late game, when his damage becomes pretty absurd and he's so tanky it takes two enemies to bring him down. No disengage... no chase... His Q and R both pretty much exemplify these aspects. Outside of hard CC or Nasus' Whither, if Malphite Q's you, you're not going to get him. I've had the enemy team chase me from their inhib clear to our inhib turret trying to catch me, only to keep Qing them and juking skill shots. My team was laughing harder than I was, I swear I could hear Benny Hill music the entire time!

I'm not a big ADC player either, but I play enough support to hate the living crap out of Lucian. I can ult, E, W, continue attacking, launch a q, and he'll just relentless pursuit away and i've wasted my entire kit... leaving him at 1/4 health or something.

Was that enough to force him out of lane? If it was, I'd call it a success because that means free farm for your AD while Lucian falls behind.
When dealing with all in champs like Lucian, typically the best way to deal with them is to poke them. Fiddle' E has a good range, you should be able to harass him pretty well with it and force him out of lane. By the time your AD is ready to take Lucian on, there should be enough of a gap that your team will win outside of a 2v1.

I haven't played enough recent Olaf to talk intelligently, but he's considered the poster-boy for having been gutted. Sion, however, I can talk about. Sion used to be all about entering the fight and bringing pain once he got to you. AD Sion was fun, and even if that Stun/Shield AP combo was toxic, there's a simple solution... Turn Q skillshot, W gets AD instead of AP Scaling. And honestly... I miss my Ult... nothing felt better than walking in, healing my team, and making them focus me while my team just wrecked face around me. I said it in another post... The new ult is his charge through the men, the old ult is his fight with Jarvan's guards... and that's where Sion's identity really lies for me.

He's people saying when a champ has been Olafed lol. I never played the old Sion, but truthfully, his kit didn't interest me. When I saw the teaser for the rework, I went right out and picked Sion up in expectation. Yes, Sion could use some tweaking, but I still like his kit and it's potential.

Cacapoopoopipi1 votes

Even a more ranged adc isnt a safe bet against him because your AA range would still be shorter than his Q and W range. So while youre knicking him with little AAs, he just brings you down to 50% health with Q and a double shot after dashing.

Tannhäuser Gate1 votes

Im new to the game, so i don't really think my opinion should really count, but OP i think one of your issues is that you are picking jinx into Lucian. From what I've read from the pros, Lucian edges out jinx

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/pew-pew-bang-bang-393878 C9 sneaky claims here that lucian has the edge over jinx

Dryditch4 votes

He has the edge over everyone.

Everyone except Tristana, that is...

You quite literally need to put 3 people bot to murder him early and keep him starved. Other than that, Lucian just snowballs so hard that it doesn't even matter anymore.

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