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Season 6 Changes: ADC made easier; Jungling a lot more difficult

The Engiwizard·Nov 23, 2015·14 votes·3,616 views

Ok, so with the addition of new Marksmen items, being ADC has become a lot easier. The changes made to some of the Marksmen kits ( ) also made things more interesting. I commend Riot on making Marksmen more fun to play. Here's my beef though, Jungling is SOOOO difficult now. Champions like and have such a harder time in the jungle, which really lowers their efficiency in the early game. Starting out as a Jungle now brings a sort of dread, as you will be near death almost all of early game and have a much higher chance of being executed by Jungle monsters now. I don't know what the community has said on this yet, but it is becoming an issue for someone like me who loves jungling. I feel like I have to jump on the wagon with what many others have been riding since the changes; that is, all of these new changes are for the Professional players of League. The casual side of League seems to be disappearing, and the game isn't what many claim it started out as; a fun game where exploring new and different builds was fun, instead of following a now widely popular meta that the pros use. I can't say that the game isn't fun, but it's becoming less enjoyable for more casual players like me. My only wish is that Riot will change the starting Jungle items back into 1 item, and make early game Jungling as enjoyable as I had once known it to be.

28 Comments

CherysseNov 23, 20153 votes

My thread is pretty much about it: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/0tgqZFaA-s6-a-harder-early-for-many-junglers

The EngiwizardNov 23, 20152 votes

I read your thread, and I agree completely, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this as an issue.

ModwallaNov 23, 20152 votes

anyone else find this backward? i find adc harder.. ok.. with exception of Caitlyn MissFortune Graves if u pick other adcs, u try dealing with all these buffed adcs in lane and then say stuff like adcs made easier for jg, i only play lee jg so im limited in knowledge but i found lee jg easier now with 3 pots available for extra sustain, u can clear more jg etc

The EngiwizardNov 23, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fcking Ward Plz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjLXK6Ir,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-23T04:11:40.311+0000)

anyone else find this backward? i find adc harder.. ok.. with exception of if u pick other adcs, u try dealing with all these buffed adcs in lane and then say stuff like adcs made easier for jg, i only play lee jg so im limited in knowledge but i found lee jg easier now with 3 pots available for extra sustain, u can clear more jg etc

I found that all the updated ADCs are much easier to play as. I haven't played as Corki or Quinn, but everyone else was pretty easy. The new items also help, especially with Tristana . I've never played as lee, but I have played both Elise and Udyr, Kha'zix, Vi, and Diana. What seems to separate the ones who are having trouble from those who aren't are the ones who have a lot more sustain. A champion like Vi doesn't benefit much from the 8% life steal and the recommended Health pot doesn't help that much. This also supports the issue I brought up; A champ like Lee Sin is popular because he thrives in the jungle with his sustain, but champs outside that level of sustain fail, which makes a champ who used to be a popular Jg pick a now bad pick, out of meta. As I've said, when the game is based on a competitive meta, it makes it a lot less enjoyable for casuals like me.

GenghisEmoNov 23, 20151 votes

All the ADCs seem way easier to play. Maybe they are weird, like Ashe's small changes through me off hard, but i think they are easier. And some no longer seem to be "Early" game anymore. They seem to dominate all the time if you get a lead or even when behind. I know MF can literally feed, and still be a huge threat when starved of a descent amount of CS and behind on Kills (that new ult XD).

Kog'Maw, yes he is pretty slow as molasses in the early game, will do very little and poses little threat too, but that late game comes and with good positioning and a good supp that can defend, you are set and literally press W and mash that right click and few E's and R's here and there as you see fit for most accurate and efficient multi kills (and if you dont get the kills, you get tons of assist). Even my newb cousin that miraculously made it into Silver 3 because i helped them in the provisionals figured out Kog in a Normals game without ever playing Kog in Bots or Custom XD.

I have yet to try out Quinn. And Vayne.

Cait i got pretty quick. Saw the new changes and thought "now i get W first... never thought i'd say that". And then used her, hated her new self since i felt so vulnerable since traps no longer trap as easily, but then next match was good to go and got fed. Graves i built wrong, but i built wrong since it was super easy to go in and starve my enemies of cs while positioning in a way that forced enemies to get close to walls. Only lost once as him, my supp fed, even when i was way ahead in cs and had a kill, took a tower, and didnt die at all (died only after enemy twitch got fourth kill and downhill from there, literally building wrong got me to cs better at the cost of damage in teamfights but i still won all previous games, after that feeding from my supp, now im going to build the right way XD)

Jinx played once since the patch, still the same it seems, save for her W where i can miss it ans still get a hit on them XD. Thanks riot you not only broke minion block, you unintentionally messed with skillshots making them more glitchy (also looking at you Blitz and go through minions Thresh hook even minions have larger collision areas XD).

Paladin 0f LifeNov 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fcking Ward Plz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjLXK6Ir,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-23T04:11:40.311+0000)

anyone else find this backward? i find adc harder.. ok.. with exception of if u pick other adcs, u try dealing with all these buffed adcs in lane and then say stuff like adcs made easier for jg, i only play lee jg so im limited in knowledge but i found lee jg easier now with 3 pots available for extra sustain, u can clear more jg etc

Jungle is soo much harder gragas got an indirect nerf and is crap now. Not to mention the ridiculous health regeneration of the monsters if u kite them wrong. They need to nerf monsters something awful

ThePikolNov 23, 20152 votes

I think some ADC are much stronger now ( Caitlyn , Graves , MissFortune ) but some are way weaker ( Ashe , Twitch ) and since when I play adc i pick Ashe or Twitch I can see i'm doing worse now. Hope Rito will change that soon.

I agree jungling is more difficult right now, I play Kindred jungle and even if i clear well I'm always behind my team in terms of lvl

The EngiwizardNov 23, 20151 votes

If that's true, then the changes are an issue for both roles. Which should probably be fixed as well, though I don't adc very often (except in bot games or normal blind pick) and champs like trist and Cait seem like some of the best picks. I don't own Twitch and I hardly touch Ashe, but I suspect that a few of the items make for a more interesting game with them. I have played Cait, Graves, MF, Trist, and Sivir. Sivir also seems to have gotten the short end of the stick with the pre-season.

The Evil SpleenNov 23, 20152 votes

Everyone is saying jungle is harder... I am not seeing that. Shit, I quite effectively jungled as Quinn last night and it was alright. Are people buying those refillable potions (which you probably shouldn't in most cases) or something?

The EngiwizardNov 23, 20151 votes

The issue isn't so much with jungling as a whole, but a lot of the jungle-made champs are having a more difficult early-game than any other role, which can lead to falling behind or being snowballed by the enemy team. In that case you'd pick the better jungle champs, the problem with that is that puts all those ineffective early game champs out of meta, which puts them on a list of champions you shouldn't play, which limits the play styles and choices of the players who play in this role. Also, I don't play Quinn, but I know she's designated as a marksman or ADC, which is awesome that she can jungle, but messed up. An ADC champion can jungle more efficiently than a champ MADE to jungle? That's just not right.

The Evil SpleenNov 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Engiwizard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjLXK6Ir,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-11-23T18:53:40.813+0000)

The issue isn't so much with jungling as a whole, but a lot of the jungle-made champs are having a more difficult early-game than any other role, which can lead to falling behind or being snowballed by the enemy team. In that case you'd pick the better jungle champs, the problem with that is that puts all those ineffective early game champs out of meta, which puts them on a list of champions you shouldn't play, which limits the play styles and choices of the players who play in this role. Also, I don't play Quinn, but I know she's designated as a marksman or ADC, which is awesome that she can jungle, but messed up. An ADC champion can jungle more efficiently than a champ MADE to jungle? That's just not right.

I am not saying that she is more efficient at jungling than most meta junglers, her first clear is crazy weak. But it more than makes up for it once she gets her ult and can apply lane pressure everywhere in just a matter of seconds.

As for the early game junglers I am seeing people do quite well with Elise, Lee Sin and Shaco... All of them being early game lane pressuring junglers. I feel like people just have to readjust their runes and masteries to suit the new preseason. Most likely people are trying to play like they did last season, which may work for some champs but there is most likely a better build now with all the changes.

The EngiwizardNov 24, 20151 votes

I can see that being as to why early game is so difficult. Masteries now are a lot more confusing than last seasons, and they also seem to be very limiting. Now you can only choose one of two things to put points into, which really restricts experimentation. Not that the mastery system is complete garbage now, but it is a lot less fun to play with.

Also, I'm speaking from experience, and maybe it is me trying to play like I did last season, then again, last season was really fun. This pre-season isn't as fun, and we're talking about a video game here, the purpose is entertainment. If the game isn't fun, I find that it is not worth playing. Don't get me wrong, League can be and is still fun, but it is losing momentum. That aside, the changes to items is what is really throwing a lot of players for a loop, and masteries are fairly similar. I also don't see how runes from last season could be affected by some item changes, if they have been, please go into detail how, I'd like to know.

GenghisEmoNov 23, 20151 votes

i say Yes and No. We could keep some new stuff, but also tweek it so it is more like the old. Some new items i can deal with, but we could experiment a bit more with bringing back the old Machete. Maybe even bring back so health regen, if i recall that is no longer a thing, would be nice to get it when clearing camps.

Maybe combine new Machete with old?

Just update the damn patch Riot and make us suffer through something that one assumes would be fixed in PBE, but since it is still PreSeason i will gladly stay calm and find out what is wrong and mention it (assuming it is not another overlooked OP thing like Yasuo XD, anything still OP, but not as OP, im down to try deal with it and try to learn to counter it).

The EngiwizardNov 23, 20151 votes

I would much rather just have the old machete until Riot can pump out something more sensible, but I guess experimentation is necessary. I'm open to the idea of something new in place of the new jungle items, but I would prefer an already proven and stable item.

GenghisEmoNov 23, 20151 votes

i also prefer the old machete, since it worked then and im sure it would work now.

ThePurpleKnightNov 23, 20151 votes

The biggest problem with jungling currently is the lack of gold, everyone else got more gold from minions, but junglers get less. Riot gave them 6-8 "additional" gold on camps, however they took away the 30g off jungle items that they put on to counter the jungle nerfs back in S5. They need to put that 30g back on the camps. Even with the "additional" gold riot added junglers get 22-24 less gold than they did in season 5, every time the kill a camp.

Let's say you full clear your own jungle off cool down and lets make it 23g less to make math easier, lets say you clear your jungle 6 times, that's 828 gold you didn't get.

That gold is essential, at least give us the 22-24 gold back. I really thought Riot just forgot about this except it's been like 2 weeks now and it's still not being hot fixed in.

Cenobite AzazielNov 23, 20151 votes

Every pre season is like that. They just f*** the whole jungle. Did I say preseason? My bad. Feral flare wasn't pre season. Cinder hulk wasn't pre season. Anyway, every year they have to f***k the junglers. S4 was about sustain and pontual gold. S5 was about less sustain and less gold and a delay power spike. Remember when you could clear two buffs and gank with a power spike of 3? S6 is about... no gold, less exp (Doubel jungling and the jungler can gank full health without going to B? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! Our precious snow flakes laners can't be ganked in early game") and inefficient jungle items until you enchant them. "Wow, the enemy laner now has a sheen or a BF? Nice... I've payed up 1k just for a 80 true damage and slow smite. Thanks riot. I believe I can really carry this game as a jungler."

One with a sheen will do way more damage with that with one auto and they won't waste a summoners spell. Or one with a BF. Even more if he is an ADCaster.

The EngiwizardNov 23, 20151 votes

I hope they're looking into fixing the pre-season jungle changes, and jungle items without enchantments haven't benefited any jungle champion in a fight against other champs. Jungle items are made specifically for jungling, and if they worked against other champions, that'd be a little OP. Yet, I do agree that the rewards for jungling are now lower than ever, but I feel riot is trying to give the lanes more attention and are nerfing junglers to promote the laners. Regardless, screwing over the jungle champs isn't right, and the ones that are good shouldn't be above the other champs that don't thrive as well due to the preseason changes.

Crveni MalboroNov 23, 20151 votes

Fine to the max.Udyr can still rape evtryone... item 1415

The EngiwizardNov 23, 20151 votes

The problem we have isn't so much mid-late game, the issue is early game jungling. Being low health nearly all of early game is annoying and can make games easier for the enemy team.

Master LycanNov 23, 20151 votes

Jungling is SOOOO difficult now

Warwick I'm sorry... What? I can still Level 3 Dragon and I only need my Tier 2 Jungle Item and 1 health pot to do it now. (for comparison it used to take 3 health pots and 1 mana pot (RIP)) And after I can STILL stay in the jungle till 6 or my Devourer then b and TP gank Motherfuckers (Yeah! That's right! I take summoner 12 summoner 11 )

MetalGearTeemuNov 23, 20151 votes

"Jungle should be easier"

For Sustain junglers - is what was missing from that original riot statement.

Brusier and tank junglers were nerfed across the board.

The Evil SpleenNov 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"Jungle should be easier"

For Sustain junglers - is what was missing from that original riot statement.

Brusier and tank junglers were nerfed across the board.

My clears with amumu seem to have gotten better, as well as with rammus and malphite.

MortalButtNov 23, 20151 votes

Yeah I've found everything was better now, I got executed as rengar on my first game of the preseason but that was just random. Jax has an unreal clear time now.

Penguin EclipseNov 23, 20151 votes

My last Elise game was surprisingly brutal. I think with a rune/mastery change I can remedy the problem. But it was definitely a wake up call.

dunkeroniNov 23, 20151 votes

I find the jungle to depend very strongly on your choice of masteries, but it certainly isn't harder if you know what you're doing. Try getting rid of that 5% damage to <40% targets and instead put your extra points into the resolve tree. Having better defensive runes may look like a hit to your late game potential, but remember that s6 is all about snowballing from a solid early game.

PartholonianNov 24, 20151 votes

I think the choice of 2 starting items is fine, as is the decision to require them both for tier 2 upgrade (so that there aren't separate jungle item trees for the whole game).

The jungle itself may need more tuning though, and/or champions who are currently having excessive trouble with it. People like Khazix should not only be able to survive clears, they shouldn't be forced into taking Resolve masteries to survive either, IMO. Tank junglers should be appropriately tanky, but not everyone should have to be tanky to jungle.

The EngiwizardNov 24, 20151 votes

That's what I'm thinking now, and I agree with you, but in any case, I still like the old Hunter's Machete.

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