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Change Teemo for good (or at least for the least evil)

Ale non è male··2 votes·1,027 views

Premise Teemo has always being a difficult champ to balance, for various reasons He has historycally being either too annoying because of the combination of his long duration blind and his shrooms dot damage/slow if he was ahead, or too useless because in teamfights/duels he coudln't do anything if he get behind and/or enemy built enough MR and/or the enemy had enough damage to burst him down immediately His trademark shrooms contributed hugely to give him a strong (and evil) identity in the game, but the fact that too much of Teemo power budget was put in them made almost impossible to balance him through the rest of his kit, and so Teemo fate depended on how strong were the shrooms combined with items and general meta. Buffs/nerfs to Teemo and items synergizing with his shrooms have been for a long time the deciding factor in evaluating teemo strength In addition to that, the fact that Teemo has this strong identity as the small-evil-marksmen-yordle-swift-scout-placing-venomous-annoying-shrooms made very difficult to ideate new abilities to diversify his kit in a way that can fit with his lore/identity and to make him less of a binary champ

TL;DR Following the premise, I tried to think of some abilities that could fit Teemo identity and could help to diversify his kit without drastically change his playstyle for Teemo mains

NEW TEEMO KIT

General Stats Range: 500 -> 525 Movement Speed: 330 -> 335

Explanation: You'll understand later when you'll see the changes made to what are the current W/E

Passive (Camouflage) do not change

**(Q): Blinding Dart ** Range: 580 -> 600 Cost: 70/80/90/100/110 -> 85 at all levels Magic damage: 80/125/170/215/260 (+80% AP) -> 80/120/160/200/240 (+70% AP) Blind duration: 1,5/1,75/2/2,25/2,5 -> 1,6/1,7/1,8/1,9/2

Explanation: This is overall a nerf on Blinding Dart effectiveness, simply because as you'll see later a lot of the power budget put in it has been spread to the overall kit. To put it into context, Teemo has acquired different ways to damage and CC the enemy so he he would not need to rely on his Q alone to do those things. Also, reduce blind duration also helps to lower the frustration for the enemy to play against teemo, one of the reasons why he has been considered a toxic champ ** (W): Noxious Trap (REWORKED)** Shrooms duration: 5 min -> 3 min Max charges stored: 3 -> 4/4/5/5/6 Cooldown: 0,25 sec -> 1 sec Recharge time: 35/31/27 -> 27/25/23/21/19 Arm time: 1,5 sec -> 1 sec Sight radius: 212,5 -> 175 Detonation radius: 200 -> 175 Cost: 75/100/125 Mana + 1 Mushroom -> 40/45/50/55/60 mana + 1 Mushroom Magic damage per second: 50/81,25/112,5 (+12,5%AP) -> 25/30/35/40/45 (+10%AP) Slow: 30/40/50% -> REMOVED

The enemy champs hit by a mushroom are marked with Toadstool for 8 seconds and receive 50% less damage by subsequent mushrooms while they are marked

Explanation: YES, THIS IS THE BIG CHANGE. His actual ulti is placed on W. Finally Teemo 's main problem is solved Teemo trademark mushrooms acquire a brand new meaning in his gameplan's economy. The damage component is finally seprataed from his CC component (and partially vision component), so Teemo balance will not depend anymore only from mushrooms strength, but he can finally diversify his gameplan. Mushrooms damage isn't anymore oppressive while you get caught in the middle of a field of mushrooms when you are facing Teemo, but now as Teemo the mushrooms can be used more often for clearing waves purpose and to deal damage in fights/trades thanks to higher amount of charges stored and reduced arm and rechearge time

(E): Patrolling Equipment (NEW) Passive: Toxic Shot Magic damage per second: 6/12/18/24/30 (+10%AP) -> 10/15/20/25/30 (+8% AP) Magic damage on-hit: 10/20/30/40/50 (+30%AP) -> REMOVED Passive: Quick Move(old W passive) Bonus Movement Speed: ~~10/14/18/22/26% ~~ -> 15/19,5/24/28,5/33

Active: Zip Line (NEW) Cost: 50 mana at all levels Cooldown: 13/12/11/10/9 Range: 900

Teemo use his grapple dart and shoots a tiny zip line that stick on the closest wall (P.S. for skill purposes it is considered also impassable terrain created by skills like Jarvan's ulti) for 4 seconds **While moving on the zip line, he loses Toxic Shot passive, but Teemo bonus movement speed is doubled (not being disabled by damage), and he deals bonus physical damage on his auto-attacks which is increased by 33% on enemies marked with Toadstool ** While Zip Line is on CD, Teemo loses the Quick Move passive

Physical damage on-hit: 15/25/35/45/55 (+ 10% AD) (+ 30% AP)

Explanation: Teemo's old W and E are packed together to create a new and more exciting skill to use for Teemo This new skill create new options for Teemo, that has new tools to fulfill his swift scout identity, being able to use the Zip Line to either chasing and hit fast and hard an enemy which is escaping, or to quickly move out of trouble and avoid to fight in unfavourable situations or hit and run in fast harassing maneuvers around the enemy. The phsyical damage component make more difficult for the enemy to itemize against Teemo and allow him to deal damage even against competent teams that properly itemize to reduce his magic damage The accurate use of Zip Line active (especially in snyergy with the Camouflage passive) create rooms for proficient Teemo players to actively make plays and would saperate the good from great Teemo players, and at the same time do not drastically change Teemo identity

(R): Tripwire (NEW) Range: 600/750/900 Tripwire length: 900/1050/1200 Duration: 6 min Max charges stored: 3 Cost: 45/55/65 mana Cooldown: 1,5 sec Rechearge time: 50/37,5/25 Sight radius: 225

Teemo places a trapwire between two points on the map, invisible to the enemy. The first enemy that passes through it triggers the tripwire and is stunned for 0,25 seconds and then slowed by 90%, rapidly decaying over 2 seconds, while the enemies that subsequently passes through it in the next 5 seconds are slowed by 40% for 1,5 seconds, granting vision of them . Teemo can connect various trapwires by attaching a tripwire to a pre-existent hook. The hooks grant vision around them, and are stealthed to the enemy when placed into bushes unless enemies have true sight of the area, the enemies can destroy hooks by standing on them for 1,5 seconds (like Rek'Sai tunnels)

**The first enemy that pass through the tripwire is marked with Deadly Toadstool . For the next 8 seconds, he can't be stunned by a subsequent tripwire ( he is still subject to the slow, though) , but receive 33% extra damage from Noxious Traps and 50% extra damage from Zip Line on-hit active **

Explanation: Here it closes the full circle. The new Teemo ulti retains the purposes of bringing CC and vision to his kit, and these components are here strengthen once separated from the damage component. Teemo can use this new ulti to control the map like he did with the old ulti, and can bring also CC in a teamfight, which is a novelty for him. Smart Teemo players can control a game this way, and can combine the Tripwire CC with Zip Line to make plays not only reactively, but also proactively. In addition to that, the players that face Teemo do not get frustrated by being randomly killed from a Mushroom placed there minutes before by Teemo, but Teemo players can still set trap in advance to kill them with proper timing and correct use of Deadly Toadstool mark

Tl;DR I think this new kit could fix a lot if not all of the Teemo problems, and at the same time making more satisfying to play as him and less frustrating to play vs him

What do you think? Thoughts?

16 Comments

Black Coffee 6663 votes

he is forced to painstakingly set up every single trade and has to rely on the enemy being completely retarded. he also does garbage damage right now, and this decreases it even more

Ale non è male1 votes

Teemo needing to set up traps isn't better than the actual situation where he just has to place as much shrooms as he can through the map and hope some guys randomly works on it though?

Unlimited Chill1 votes

I think this would be cool but I feel that this would cause a lot of QQ because of all the traps.

Ale non è male1 votes

I have an hard time figuring out more QQ about Teemo than the current one, both from Teemo mains and guys that plays against Teemo :D

Mathbalnase1 votes

Don't forget the QQ from Teemo's allies who are upset at having such a gutted trash-tier champ on their team.

Quil Evrything1 votes

Those are insanely strong buffs. Even ONE of them.. for example, one of the range increases... would be just insanely OP on teemo.

gotta vote you down.

Mathbalnase1 votes

Teemo needs changes, but not these changes.

Ale non è male1 votes

What kind of changes does he need? I'm pretty curious to know what do you think is fine and what is not in his actual kit

Mathbalnase1 votes

Well, I'm pretty sure pushing him more into the 'trap and ambush' routine isn't going to endear him to his (many, many) haters. That's probably one of the top 2 behaviours featured in Teemo QQ. Right now, it's a big part of what he does because if he tries anything else he gets killed, not because Teemo players don't want to do those other things. 4/5ths of his kit being targeted at this behaviour is going to end badly.

His passive is terrible, you leave that entirely unchanged.

The entire mechanic of Blind is probably one of the most fundamentally binary Riot has ever implemented. I've seen a lot of suggestions over the years that it should be changed to a vision reduction, and come to agree with that myself.

So long as they're invisible, people are going to bitch and whine about 'uncounterable' shrooms (or bitch and whine that they have to pay gold for that counter, like they did when Oracles was a thing). Making them visible but invulnerable shuts these idiots up. Additionally, shifting their internal power budget allocated to passive vision into the on-detonation reveal shuts up the idiots who go on endlessly about 'shrooms as wards'.

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

Well, I'm pretty sure pushing him more into the 'trap and ambush' routine isn't going to endear him to his (many, many) haters. That's probably one of the top 2 behaviours featured in Teemo QQ. Right now, it's a big part of what he does because if he tries anything else he gets killed, not because Teemo players don't want to do those other things. 4/5ths of his kit being targeted at this behaviour is going to end badly.

The reason why the "trap and ambush" routine is dislked, imho, is because it does not feel satisfyng and interactive either for Teemo players and their own teams and for the enemy team. Actually Teemo is not really setting traps or doing anything trying to outsmart you, he is putting shrooms in a certain locations and you can be killed by shrooms put on the other side of the map 5 minutes earlier because...well, shit happens Pushing Teemo onto the direction of "outsmart the enemy and you get rewarded" I think would be more palatable for his players, his allies that can contribute to those plays, and his enemies. Getting caught in Teemo ultis randomly in the jungle doesn't necessarily cause you to istantly dies if Teemo has not timed properly his actions, as ulti does no damage and shrooms duration time is greatly reduced and if Teemo is not close to use his on-hit damage he can't capitalize on "Deadly Toadstool" mark

His passive is terrible, you leave that entirely unchanged.

I don't think Teemo passive is bad in a vacuum. It fits his lore thematic pretty well and offers a nice conditional boost. With the actual kit, it is bad, because you are not really going to do some flshy ambush play with his actual tools, but that's what my suggestions were aimed to. What do you think would be a fitting passive for him?

The entire mechanic of Blind is probably one of the most fundamentally binary Riot has ever implemented. I've seen a lot of suggestions over the years that it should be changed to a vision reduction, and come to agree with that myself.

Vision reduction doesn't make much sense, imho. Firstly, because this is yet the trademark of other champs like Graves and above all Nocturne. Secondly, because you would deprive Teemo from the possibility to do anything. I mean, a squishy short range marksmen that build AP what could be able to do if the enemy could freely unleash AA damage on him? Nothing, he would just get destroyed I agree that blind mechanic is binary, but as a matter of fact in the suggested kit I reduced his effectiveness. You can argue that blind duration time could still be too high, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but eliminate it completely would just destroy Teemo. As a side note, the fact that this new kit would have a good amount of different tools, would actually allow to redistribute CC in a different way if you find he new blind duration still too oppressive, by subtracting some of blind duration and strengthening ulti CC duration

So long as they're invisible, people are going to bitch and whine about 'uncounterable' shrooms (or bitch and whine that they have to pay gold for that counter, like they did when Oracles was a thing). Making them visible but invulnerable shuts these idiots up. Additionally, shifting their internal power budget allocated to passive vision into the on-detonation reveal shuts up the idiots who go on endlessly about 'shrooms as wards'.

Make shrooms visible but invulnerable, is an idiotic idea, sorry. How the hell would teemo be supposed to do damage to the enemy if they can know where shrooms are and just move around them? He would istantly lose any resemblance of meaningful damage, becoming even more useless than what he is now, and Teemo is not by any means a tank, so you'll need to just build him from the ground-up with a different concept which make no much sense and would require far more work to find him a niche where he could fit Use the shrooms as wards is imho perfectly fine given that this give Teemo a unique trait as a champ that isn't tanky and doesn't deal tons of damage but has a unique way to control the map and give utility to his team...the problem is when the shrooms deals aslo too much damage and CC in addition to that, which is the current situation. That's why I think shift the power budget actually put on shrooms on different spells would be far better, and would allow more easily to balance Teemo as you can intervene more easily on a single aspect of his game rather than completely nerfing him or making him hugely overpowered

Mathbalnase1 votes

I listed 'trap and ambush' as 'one of the top 2 behaviours featured in Teemo QQ' specifically to account for the 'trap and walk away' pattern that you mention. Adding hard CC to his 'trap and ambush' pattern, even at only .25s, while roughly doubling the slow intensity isn't likely to make the pattern feel more interactive for Teemo's enemies.

Putting even more of Teemo's power (four fifths of his kit, for fuck's sake?!) into this behaviour means even more of his kit relies on enemy errors and not Teemo's successes (because he can't have those successes without the enemy first making those errors).

Teemo's passive is bad because it: A) is boring and non-interactive (literally, in order for him to benefit from it, he has to neglect to interact with...everything) B) reinforces the above-mentioned 'trap and ambush' problem behaviour C) is weak

My preferred suggestion for Teemo's passive is as the new home for his on-hit DoT, freeing up an ability slot for something more interesting and interactive than 'passive granting on-hit damage'

Vision reduction makes fine sense as a replacement for blind. You can't AA something that you can't see. You also can't hit it with targeted spells, and will have particular difficulty landing skillshots (though those would at least be possible). A 100% vision reduction, fading over the duration gives Teemo a window of relative safety while not being nearly as binary as a blind (it affects most champions to a much greater degree, while not entirely crippling anyone for more than a fraction of a second).

Reducing the duration of a fundamentally binary mechanic does not make that mechanic any less binary. It just makes the problem go away faster. The duration of Blinds is not the problem. The nature of Blinds is. You know, there's probably a reason the mechanic is so rare, and has gotten more so as LoL has aged...

Making shrooms visible but invulnerable would allow Teemo to do damage to the enemy in the same way that Nid's traps do, or Cait's, or Jinx's, or any number of delayed AoEs with ample warning or with lasting damage 'pools'. All of these are visible, all of them still manage to damage or otherwise affect enemies enough to be useful.

Removing Shroom's passive vision while transferring that power to the on-detonation reveal retains their utility as a warning system and means of preserving map control (and they've never been particularly good at achieving map control, since you need to be able to safely access a region to shroom it well).

You'll not that moving (some) power out of his shrooms and into other areas of his kit is one of the things I didn't object to about your suggested changes. In fact, making them visible and invulnerable even does that to some extent (and I think more could easily be warranted). I don't think removing their CC entirely is warranted, though. That aspect of his shrooms is already not particularly strong compared to its closest competitors.

As for what direction I would send Teemo in, I think 'scout, trap and skirmish' is healthier. This is the general shape of changes I've advocate for in the past:

My personal change preferences

base stats: slight increase to AA range substantial increase to MS

Innate: magic DoT on-hit, no up-front component, scaling includes gradual reduction in total duration while increasing total damage dealt

Q: DoT poppy Q (minus %hp)

W: passive: vision extends slightly into brush and around corners active: sheds slows&roots, grants %MS and Eve-esque stealth for short duration

E: linear champion (and possible large/epic monsters) collision skillshot damages and removes target's vision, which recovers over duration (epic monsters, if affected at all, obviously immune to CC portion as usual)

R: visible; invulnerable; range increased early, decreased late; passive vision removed; detonation releases %currentHP Cass W revealing affected area and poisoned targets

I think these changes would make his interactions more consistent between opponents (countering some less hard while being countered less hard in return), and reduce the prominence several areas of common complaint, freeing room in his power budget for actually being useful as more than a shroom&ward monkey

The end result (I hope) is a marksman-type champ who is mobile without dashes/jumps/blinks, excels in quick hit-and-run skirmishes, and is difficult to pin down, but gets squashed like a ripe melon if someone does manage to jump on him

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

I listed 'trap and ambush' as 'one of the top 2 behaviours featured in Teemo QQ' specifically to account for the 'trap and walk away' pattern that you mention. Adding hard CC to his 'trap and ambush' pattern, even at only .25s, while roughly doubling the slow intensity isn't likely to make the pattern feel more interactive for Teemo's enemies.

Putting even more of Teemo's power (four fifths of his kit, for fuck's sake?!) into this behaviour means even more of his kit relies on enemy errors and not Teemo's successes (because he can't have those successes without the enemy first making those errors).

But the fact is that Teemo DOES NOT actually have those 2 patterns you are mentioning. He actually only has what you are calling the "trap and walk away", because he has no tools to ambush the enemy. THIS is what make people upset about him, imho. Except rare cases, you do not felle that you are losing vs him because he is outplaying you, or "ambushing" you, you feel like you lose vs him because he was lucky that you or a your teammate walked on his traps The kit I proposed WOULD CREATE what you are calling the "trap and ambush" pattern, would not strengthen them

Teemo's passive is bad because it: A) is boring and non-interactive (literally, in order for him to benefit from it, he has to neglect to interact with...everything) B) reinforces the above-mentioned 'trap and ambush' problem behaviour C) is weak

My preferred suggestion for Teemo's passive is as the new home for his on-hit DoT, freeing up an ability slot for something more interesting and interactive than 'passive granting on-hit damage'

Teemo passive weak? Hell, no. 60% lvl at speed boost at level 10 (and 80% at level 15) is a BIG boost in power...heck, there are other champions that literaly use an ability spot and resources to have those kind of buffs And the fact that the boost is conditional and you can access it by fulfilling what is a peculiar trait of his lore/identity is a rather cool thing. Even if you can find it boring, and that you don't like the trap and ambush behaviour (which Teemo actually doesn't have, as mentioned above, anyway) it is far better this that some passive you can find around that are literaly just "let's give this champ some X generic buff"

Vision reduction makes fine sense as a replacement for blind. You can't AA something that you can't see. You also can't hit it with targeted spells, and will have particular difficulty landing skillshots (though those would at least be possible). A 100% vision reduction, fading over the duration gives Teemo a window of relative safety while not being nearly as binary as a blind (it affects most champions to a much greater degree, while not entirely crippling anyone for more than a fraction of a second).

Reducing the duration of a fundamentally binary mechanic does not make that mechanic any less binary. It just makes the problem go away faster. The duration of Blinds is not the problem. The nature of Blinds is. You know, there's probably a reason the mechanic is so rare, and has gotten more so as LoL has aged...

Except that if you go for vision reduction, you can drop a pink ward just like you do vs Akali, and Teemo is rendered useless...except for the fact that Akali can deal enough damage to assassinate people quick, while Teemo literaly can't put down an even comparable amount of damage, so what have you solved, except completely deleting Teemo from the game (and I know this could be the gola for many players)? Blind being a binary mechanic is not good, and that's why it is so rare as mechanic...but on Teemo, it just fits, so you can't remove it without TOTALLY changing Teemo concept, which likely means put the name Teemo on a different champ. If you want to discourage it, shift power on some other kind of CC, that's fine...it is not fine removing it unless you find a valid solution for Teemo, which vision reduction IS NOT (notice Akali, Graves, Nocturne different amounts of damage and mobility)

Making shrooms visible but invulnerable would allow Teemo to do damage to the enemy in the same way that Nid's traps do, or Cait's, or Jinx's, or any number of delayed AoEs with ample warning or with lasting damage 'pools'. All of these are visible, all of them still manage to damage or otherwise affect enemies enough to be useful.

Removing Shroom's passive vision while transferring that power to the on-detonation reveal retains their utility as a warning system and means of preserving map control (and they've never been particularly good at achieving map control, since you need to be able to safely access a region to shroom it well).

You'll not that moving (some) power out of his shrooms and into other areas of his kit is one of the things I didn't object to about your suggested changes. In fact, making them visible and invulnerable even does that to some extent (and I think more could easily be warranted). I don't think removing their CC entirely is warranted, though. That aspect of his shrooms is already not particularly strong compared to its closest competitors.

Nidalee, Jinx, Cait can afford to have visible trap because those ARE NOT supposed to be the main way to deal damage in their kit. If people walk around those traps, well, those champs can still dish out tons of damage. If people can walk around Teemo Shrooms, he just deal abysmal damage while being a short ranged squishy marksman that build AP. That's the BIG reason why you can't make Teemo shrooms visible. And that's why the actual shrooms are a big problem from a design perspective. Damage, CC, Vision, almost everything depends on them on actual Teemo kit. Getting caught in a Teemo shrooms field you are suffering massive damage, your enemies know your position, and you can't move away from that zone easily; not getting hit by teemo shrooms basically means you can walk all over Teemo over and over again If I have to move some power from teemo shrooms, I wouldn't move damage, because I find it hard to imagine another skill that could give him damage without completely change his gameplay - have a long range skillshot basically overhaul teemo patterns and make him more of a standard marksmen/mage -. Of course if you can put that shrooms damage somewhere else in the kit in a way that doesn't make teemo a completely different champ, and use shrooms for vision and CC exclusively, you could make them visible and invulnerable and make them work like Nidalee/cait traps...but that's not the case, at least imho

As for what direction I would send Teemo in, I think 'scout, trap and skirmish' is healthier.

"scout trap and skirmish" would not a bad direction in a vacuum, but I don't get how you would get it with your proposed skillset. You'll basically retain the actual Teemo E through the new passive and Q, his W would just be a mixture of GP oranges and twitch Q without the damage boost, his E would be like Graves W - without the rest of Graves kit attached to it -, and his R would be basically useless for damage and the enemy would have little to no trouble to avoid that If you mean to remove complain by remoivng the champ, yeah, you exactly accomplish that. Teemo becoming more interactive - and that is debatable given how vision reduction didn't make exactly Akali interactive with the enemy, I would argue - means nothing if he can't just deal any amount of reliable damage while being extremely squishy - the closest thing to your suggestion would be Twitch that at least is has a series of damage buffs completely focused on ehancing seriously his AA damage (come on, you want Teemo to deal damage through AA but you didn't even gave Teemo a freaking AS boost in your kit) and far longer range than the one you'll give to Teemo across his entire kit - and losing even a good amount of map control without regaining it in a different way (your proposed E would affect only the target vision but would not bring by any mean map control)

Mathbalnase1 votes

During my time playing LoL, I've seen plenty of Teemos engage in trap-and-ambush maneuvers. And during my time on the LoL forums and more recently these boards, I've seen plenty of threads complaining about those maneuvers. And then we have your bold, if unsourced and unsupported, claim that Teemo is entirely lacking in this thing which I have seen. Sadly, I find your claim...unconvincing. Teemo has the tools necessary to engage in trap-and-ambush maneuvers. Those include:

  1. a tool that places a trap (yep, he does have his ult)
  2. a tool that lets him lie, hidden, in wait (that would be his innate) 3 (optional) ) a tool that increases his damage over a short duration when the time is right (AS boost in his passive, plus nuke from his Q and large DoT from the trap)

What tool is it, exactly, that you posit he is currently missing?

That Teemo's passive is better than some other passives is irrelevant to an objective assessment of Teemo's passive. Some other passives are entirely capable of being garbage. That does not mean that Teemo's passive is good. Those champions with large AS steroids on their abilities also tend to have those steroids available on demand. Teemo's, like much of his current kit, is really only available when the enemy allows. An honest assessment of its power must take that factor into account.

Where's this talk of Akali and Vision Wards coming from in a discussion on Vision Reduction? Akali has a Stealth. Stealth is not Vision Reduction. Vision Wards are not effective against Vision Reduction. This fundamental lack of reading comprehension and knowledge of game mechanics undermines anything else you might have to say on the matter. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

With your changes, you gut the damage Teemo inflicts with his traps, but then have the gall to object to my suggestions on the basis that...they will not longer be Teemo's primary source of damage? Hypocritical much? 'If I have to move some power from teemo shrooms, I wouldn't move damage'...that's exactly what you did. The goal is that they shouldn't be his primary source of damage while still being powerful when used optimally, to allow more power to be shifted into the rest of his kit (you know, giving him something to do when his traps aren't available or are somehow rendered ineffective?)

TL;DR: As stated above, you (demonstrably) have no clue what you're talking about. I'm out.

Ale non è male1 votes

Except, that he doesn't actually need at all to use his passive to do what you are incorrectly calling "trap and ambush", he only needs his enemy to walk on his shrooms. He doesn't need to put himself actively in a position of do damage and/or being in danger to ambush the enemy, he just need to wait and eventually finish off an enemy that his shrooms yet put at very low HP.

He doesn't have a tool that actually allow him to do fight/skirmishes if his shrooms don't deal enough damage, with the only exceptions being the use of the blind vs melee champs with no gapcloser like Garen/Nasus. That's where the ambushing part is totally missing

What tool does exactly allow him to ambush the enemy, that I'm not considering

On teemo passive: you still haven't given a convincing reason of why it is bad. Now you are switching stacnes from "it's weak" to "is really only available when the enemy allows" which is 1)false anyway as it is teemo that decide when to move and thus unleash the as boost and 2) have conditional steroids who are indded very stong in certain situations is actually one of the values Riot philosophy design is following, so teemo passive fit in perfectly towards League direction. If you don't like it, fine, your choice, but that does not make Teemo passive bad per se, sorry

Oh, you are correct on vision reduction, my bad. Still, the fundamental lack of arguments about how Vision Reduction would be effective to teemo, leads you to avoid to answer to this crucial point and to cling on a mistake I guess you simply don't know how to answer to the point rasied in the previous post

With your changes, you gut the damage Teemo inflicts with his traps, but then have the gall to object to my suggestions on the basis that...they will not longer be Teemo's primary source of damage? Hypocritical much? 'If I have to move some power from teemo shrooms, I wouldn't move damage'...that's exactly what you did.

It is clear now that you haven't read carefully my changes, I guess? Teemo shrooms remain the main source of damage, but obviously single shroom damage need to be reduced if rechearge time reduces and the number of shreems charges increase if you put other source of damage in his kit. If anything, the shrooms acquire a whole new layer of interaction, as their mark empower the new E damage and force teemo to actually pull together some combos with either E or ulti traps if he want to do damage instead of just place shrooms and hope you walk on them

The goal is that they shouldn't be his primary source of damage while still being powerful when used optimally

If anything, my changes accomplishes all the requests you were doing. Shrooms are still a powerful source of damage, but not so powerful that Teemo can just put shrooms and passively wait for the enemy to die if they walk on it, but he got to be interactive to make his shrooms deal even more damage in an optimal way either directly (make the enemy walk through the tripwire before walking on the shrooms) or indirectly (by unleashing the strengthen E active on-hit damage on enemies marked by shrooms)

TL;DR As demonstrated above, you have shown that you are criticizing my suggestion without even fully reading/understading the original post. It's only better if you are out if you do not want to have constructive debate and it's better if you stop soiling this thread with your awful arguments and biased moans

Ale non è male1 votes

Do you think these proposed changes could have made Teemo a champ viable for these Worlds? :P

Ale non è male1 votes

Teemo not picked in Group Stage at Words, so I guess he needs some change,no?

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You got to give Teemo credit when it's due
Story, Art, & Sound22 comments
44
votes
NA > EU
Esports14 comments
27
votes
What is the scenario for a proper Cull's usage in the post 8.23 League?
Gameplay42 comments
18
votes
I just recognize that there is no proper ban line for Noxus's most ruthless executioner
Memes & Games9 comments
14
votes