Boards›Gameplay

Does the matchmaking system try to keep you at 50% W/L by giving you weak teammates after a streak?

IH8U2D34TH··2 votes·1,337 views

It seems like whenever I get on a long run of 5+ wins (had a 10 game win streak recently on another acct) I start getting awful teammates who are completely outclassed in their lanes. I'm a support main, and let me just say there isn't a DAMN THING I can do to stop an 8 kill mid laner at 10 minutes. Especially someone like zed, or Lb who are super slippery and can now blow up myself or the ADC (or both of us) in one combo, under our turret, then poof they are gone. Then guess what, the mid laner and his jungle duo lover, who is also 0/6 keeps voting 'no', holding me hostage in a lost game. Guess who fed people love crapping on, supports (even the "tank" supports, don't get enough gold early to become an actual tank). It also doesn't help that there are 50 champs that can murder me if I get close enough to the bush they are hiding in to place my ward.

It seems like my team is being setup like I'm supposed to carry trash from the support role, that isn't how it works.

19 Comments

Bademeister2 votes

Yes. But wait half a day, and you will have about 10 Riot fanboys running around trying to convince you the system works perfectly, although they have no idea what actually happens.

They of course don't "actively" try to make you lose... but they make the "super secret hidden value" so low after a win streak that you WILL get matched with a team that you have to carry all by yourself (as in: 5xGold on their team, vs. you and 4xBronze on your team - I obviously exaggerate, but not by much).

I Spread Cancer1 votes

Streak win grow mmr pretty fast to find your deserved place and not ruin other people game. They do that make sure you deserve it.

Bademeister1 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kKqvpHhW,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-25T14:19:33.127+0000)

Streak win grow mmr pretty fast to find your deserved place and not ruin other people game. They do that make sure you deserve it.

That's one perspective, and I understand. But as always: as long as nobody knows the underlying system (i.e. how many points, how quickly, etc. etc.), we cannot judge it - all we can do is observe and see: the system doesn't work, except it keeps people playing. So I say THAT'S the purpose, nothing else.

I Spread Cancer1 votes

You're right on observation, I say that from smurfer experience. It may work differently on non fresh account, who knows...

Edit : On my personnal experience, whenever i'm on winning streak I get match with challenger (probably to make up for the lack of player, so they pick a potential good player) then I lose because they are out of my elo when I just wanna get D1 by playing D1.

Bademeister1 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Main Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kKqvpHhW,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-25T14:45:02.037+0000)

You're right on observation, I say that from smurfer experience. It may work differently on non fresh account, who knows...

Edit : On my personnal experience, whenever i'm on winning streak I get match with challenger (probably to make up for the lack of player, so they pick a potential good player) then I lose because they are out of my elo when I just wanna get D1 by playing D1.

I think everybody who is in D1 or close to that and plays a smurf is a reason why the majority of players is pissed playing this game. That people like you exist, who need to make others feel bad to feel good themselves is sad for this world. And your ego-inflating post is just another example of that... double sad.

I Spread Cancer1 votes

You are stereotyping me like other smurfer. I smurf to play off-role and grind in the elo I belong in this off-role, but since i start from a fresh unranked account with silver mrr while I have better fondamental, I have to play my placement then a couple of more games to get where I belong.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

No, it can give you horrible teammates at any time. I get far more bad teammates after a loss than after a win. It seems like 50% of the people here complain about horrible teammates after winning a bunch and 50% of the people complain about horrible teammates after losing a bunch. I don't think there is a pattern as much as the meta is just prone to huge variability in play.

Although from a purely mathematical point of view, 50% of players win every game and 50% of players lose every game and matchmaking actively tries to match you with other players of your skill level so you can say that eventually, it puts everyone at 50%. I would say don't worry about the short run. You can see a ton of ridiculous streaks in the short run but everyone gets to where they belong eventually.

Bademeister1 votes

{quoted}

No, it can give you horrible teammates at any time. I get far more bad teammates after a loss than after a win. It seems like 50% of the people here complain about horrible teammates after winning a bunch and 50% of the people complain about horrible teammates after losing a bunch. I don't think there is a pattern as much as the meta is just prone to huge variability in play.

What you think (or anybody on that matter) isn't important. The fact that Riot doesn't disclose the system tells me one thing only: it doesn't work. If it would, why not disclose it? And no, if you can "abuse" it, that means it does NOT work... so if you have to keep it a secret so it can't be abused, that means it's broken.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

{quoted}

What you think (or anybody on that matter) isn't important. The fact that Riot doesn't disclose the system tells me one thing only: it doesn't work. If it would, why not disclose it? And no, if you can "abuse" it, that means it does NOT work... so if you have to keep it a secret so it can't be abused, that means it's broken.

My guess (granted I don't know the full inner workings) is that riot realized showing the system just made people more defensive. Back in season 1 and 2, the entire system was visible and we could all see the system working and people were for the most part in the elo they belong to. However, there were always people who didn't believe they were in the right elo bracket and they just got more defensive as more evidence was presented to them. Having more evidence actually had a paradoxical effect on those people.

I can only go off of my experience but I can say that the system obviously worked back in season 1 and 2 with visible elo and there is no evidence to show anything really changed. It is possible riot occasionally tinkers with the system and breaks some parts of it but they always have a working model to go back to.

Bademeister1 votes

{quoted}

My guess (granted I don't know the full inner workings) is that riot realized showing the system just made people more defensive. Back in season 1 and 2, the entire system was visible and we could all see the system working and people were for the most part in the elo they belong to. However, there were always people who didn't believe they were in the right elo bracket and they just got more defensive as more evidence was presented to them. Having more evidence actually had a paradoxical effect on those people.

I can only go off of my experience but I can say that the system obviously worked back in season 1 and 2 with visible elo and there is no evidence to show anything really changed. It is possible riot occasionally tinkers with the system and breaks some parts of it but they always have a working model to go back to.

I understand. But let me tell you one thing: you don't know, you have no evidence except your person experience, which is A MINUSCULE FRACTION of the overall picture (both now and back in season x). There are always outliers left and right to the extremes of any random distribution. Speculation about the inner workings is meaningless... Riot should disclose it, if there is a sincere interest into making this a real eSport.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

Sure but that can be said about everything in life. You as a person will never have the full picture on anything. You will always have bits and pieces which you have to fit together and make conclusions based on probability. If your philosophy is that we don't know anything so we can't speculate on anything, that is your prerogative. However, from the way that OP made this topic, he was specifically asking the community to make speculations based on the limited information we have.

Just curious though, if riot were to disclose everything, what stops people from just saying that riot is lying about the data they disclose?

Bademeister1 votes

{quoted}

Sure but that can be said about everything in life. You as a person will never have the full picture on anything. You will always have bits and pieces which you have to fit together and make conclusions based on probability. If your philosophy is that we don't know anything so we can't speculate on anything, that is your prerogative. However, from the way that OP made this topic, he was specifically asking the community to make speculations based on the limited information we have.

Just curious though, if riot were to disclose everything, what stops people from just saying that riot is lying about the data they disclose?

What are you talking about? I wasn't making a philosophical comment... I know EXACTLY how the Elo system in chess works. There is NOTHING secret about it. But if I tell you "I have a great system, but that's all I'm gonna say! Trust me it works!", then YOU know nothing about the system, and I know everything about it...

Of course you can "lie" (or the guy actually calculating the Elo for somebody in a certain setting is just doing something else), but saying "there is a secret system, we can't tell you because it's so great" and "here is EXACTLY how it works, see if you find us doing something else" are still worlds apart, wouldn't you say?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

{quoted}

What are you talking about? I wasn't making a philosophical comment... I know EXACTLY how the Elo system in chess works. There is NOTHING secret about it. But if I tell you "I have a great system, but that's all I'm gonna say! Trust me it works!", then YOU know nothing about the system, and I know everything about it...

Of course you can "lie" (or the guy actually calculating the Elo for somebody in a certain setting is just doing something else), but saying "there is a secret system, we can't tell you because it's so great" and "here is EXACTLY how it works, see if you find us doing something else" are still worlds apart, wouldn't you say?

This gets back to the problem before. Giving more evidence just makes people more defensive. People don't follow logic, they follow their feelings. That is probably why the system was changed to begin with.

Back in season 1 and 2, the entire system was visible and we could all see the system working and people were for the most part in the elo they belong to. However, there were always people who didn't believe they were in the right elo bracket and they just got more defensive as more evidence was presented to them. Having more evidence actually had a paradoxical effect on those people.

Kayle Shrine1 votes

Never join a queu after a dodge, cancel it every time.

Bademeister1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kayle Shrine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kKqvpHhW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-25T15:13:05.038+0000)

Never join a queu after a dodge, cancel it every time.

Why?

Automated Riven1 votes

Because it counts as the same que. So the way matchmaking works is that, for example, I am 1200 MMR. When I first started searching the system wants to find 10 people with exactly 1200 MMR for the game to be 100% even. But if it can't find those people it widens a bit as it searches. So maybe after two minutes we are + or - 50 MMR. So I may have a 1250 on my team and an 1150. Same for the opponents.

So when someone que dodges it returns to the same que but doesn't reset the prior search restrictions. So when it looks after the que dodge it keeps widening the restrictions. So maybe when you get in after you have a 1275 and an 1125. Which just will go to make the game more inconsistent and have to potential to have higher skill discrepancies between your allies and enemies.

Bademeister1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kKqvpHhW,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-25T16:03:30.145+0000)

Because it counts as the same que. So the way matchmaking works is that, for example, I am 1200 MMR. When I first started searching the system wants to find 10 people with exactly 1200 MMR for the game to be 100% even. But if it can't find those people it widens a bit as it searches. So maybe after two minutes we are + or - 50 MMR. So I may have a 1250 on my team and an 1150. Same for the opponents.

So when someone que dodges it returns to the same que but doesn't reset the prior search restrictions. So when it looks after the que dodge it keeps widening the restrictions. So maybe when you get in after you have a 1275 and an 1125. Which just will go to make the game more inconsistent and have to potential to have higher skill discrepancies between your allies and enemies.

That's fascinating insights! Where do you know these details from?

Automated Riven1 votes

Tbh I don't even remember. It's something I learned years ago. :/ I generally don't retain information that isn't varied but since I can't remember where I learned it I can't 100% gaurentee it at this time. I do believe it to be current and correct tho based on anecdotes. Which unfortunately is all I have right now.

Kayle Shrine1 votes

{quoted}

Why?

In diamond + there is less players and for some reasons, after a dodge you have a much highter chance to get your secondary role. Not sure why but this is 100% true, cancel the queu after every dodge if you really want primary role ofc.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by IH8U2D34TH

Approach Velocity and Ingenious Hunter are in the wrong Keystone groups.
Gameplay18 comments
21
votes
Warding and Support
Gameplay11 comments
1
votes
Arms race in top lane has left bottom in the dust.
Gameplay3 comments
1
votes