Those Mordekaiser changes are seriously depressing

Auryiel·Feb 14, 2015·47 votes·3,452 views

When at first they said they wanted to make him less bursty and more tanky, here's what I expected

Passive no longer decays during combat and now generates shield based on a percentage of the amount of damage the spell's tooltip says it does (so it's not reduced by MR anymore, but to compensate for such a huge buff the percentage would be lowered, thus reducing Morde's power when he's ahead and increasing it when he's behind).

Q CD changed to 7/6/5/4/3 seconds Damage lowered

W cd normalized at 12 at all ranks W damage increased

E CD changed to 5 seconds Base damage lowered to 70/110/150/190/230

R damage is now spread over the whole duration Duration reduced to 6 seconds

What we actually got : lol gl fighting anyone outside a minion wave Oh and don't build damage, please, we're gonna actively punish you for it Have fun being useless! :D Here's a poro toss image while we ignore all your concerns

80 Comments

HawkefireFeb 14, 201510 votes

Indeed. If anything these changes honestly look more like nerfs than they do as buffs. All mordekaiser has is damage and sustain (however that sustain isn't exactly very good).

Transforming morde into a tank is all fine and dandy except for the fact that he has nothing to force the enemy to pay attention to him. What is the point with being tanky if the enemy just outright ignores you? The only way morde can get someones attention with his kit (and this is without making some pretty massive and drastic changes) is by dishing out damage, take that away and he basically has nothing.

NarasimhaFeb 14, 20151 votes

Just to jump in, this is almot the same exact argument people use for Shyvanna, and I don't recall anyone saying she's in a bad spot recently. You don't need CC to force someone to attack you. All you need to be a tank is to to be a high 'threat'. To make the opponents panic and go "Oh shit we need to kill him NOW." I'm going to wait to test him out before passing further judgement, but honestly, saying that he's a bad tank just because 'he has nothing to force the enemy to pay attention to him', is a horrible analysis.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 14, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Just to jump in, this is almot the same exact argument people use for Shyvanna, and I don't recall anyone saying she's in a bad spot recently. You don't need CC to force someone to attack you. All you need to be a tank is to to be a high 'threat'. To make the opponents panic and go "Oh shit we need to kill him NOW." I'm going to wait to test him out before passing further judgement, but honestly, saying that he's a bad tank just because 'he has nothing to force the enemy to pay attention to him', is a horrible analysis.

except that Shyvanna really doesn't do much and she actually deals quite a bit of damage even without items, not to mention her W actually acts as a pseudo gap closer since it speeds her up, not to mention she can jump into the fight with her Ult. You really cannot compare Morde to Shyv since they aren't alike. Shyvana can run towards you and beat your face to a pulp even at lower lvls, Morde? well now he needs to build tank in order to survive, he kills himself with his skills, he is rather short range and no way to get close to his opponent nor a way to stick with them. Saying that he and Shyvanna are similar is a horrible analysis

LearndingFeb 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Indeed. If anything these changes honestly look more like nerfs than they do as buffs. All mordekaiser has is damage and sustain (however that sustain isn't exactly very good).

Transforming morde into a tank is all fine and dandy except for the fact that he has nothing to force the enemy to pay attention to him. What is the point with being tanky if the enemy just outright ignores you? The only way morde can get someones attention with his kit (and this is without making some pretty massive and drastic changes) is by dishing out damage, take that away and he basically has nothing.

Singed

ZephyrDrakeFeb 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

except that Singed is annoying due to his proxy farming and actually has CC, unlike Morde who has no CC and will deal even less damage because of the need to build tanky and his reduced ratios

HawkefireFeb 15, 20152 votes

You guys are seriously neglecting the fact that singed can actually dish out some incredible damage. Not only that, but singed is INCREDIBLY good at disrupting teamfights because of his playstyle.

ParulaFeb 14, 201510 votes

He's total ass now, making it scale off of hp made him squishier by far at current values. Not even taking ult changes into the question which was supposedly the "problem" hes going to have to build a lot of health to still not get anywhere near the tankiness he would have from damage items giving him shield.

GJ riot "buffing" Mordekaiser, the high priority meta pick who saw constant play and bans :^) maybe now he will be able to complete with the likes of Zed, Syndra, Leblanc, and whatever else has been in favor for a year straight.

lightdragoon88Feb 14, 20155 votes

item 3116 item 3151

Congrants. You now have CC and tankyness while doing damage to the enemy team.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 14, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Congrants. You now have CC and tankyness while doing damage to the enemy team.

hahahahahaha.... yeah no

lightdragoon88Feb 14, 20153 votes

hahahahahaha.... yeah no

Mmmm...I remember hearing people say this exact same thing about Kalista item 3085

ZephyrDrakeFeb 14, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Mmmm...I remember hearing people say this exact same thing about

you mean an item that has great synergy with her kit? An item that allows you to be more mobile and give decent waveclear? all things that Rylais and Liandry's doesn't give? Not to mention those are two items that aren't cheap as opposed to Runnan's? A little slow isn't going to give Morde the CC he needs to stick to targets while doing enough damage to be considered a threath and Liandry's isn't going to do do much either

junglerboy16Feb 14, 20151 votes

The burn from both items combined actually helps out his ult damage a lot, since it is such a long duration DoT that you get around 12-13 ticks of fully enhanced Liandry's burn procs. His Creeping Death AoE also applies both pretty well. That said, it will not bring him anywhere close to his burst build in terms of damage. They will probably end up being core items on the new Morde because of how they did his shield though.

AuryielFeb 14, 20153 votes

You say that like building Rylai's and Liandry's is not already an option on Morde right now. Except it's better than it will be after these changes go through

PartholonianFeb 14, 20151 votes

You have that backwards, they're adding hp scaling to morde, not removing it. It's the pure AP builds like DFG Zhonyas that will probably be weaker.

AuryielFeb 14, 20154 votes

What I'm saying is that right now, on live, Morde with Liandry's and Rylai's is probably stronger than the new Morde will be with those items

ZephyrDrakeFeb 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You have that backwards, they're adding hp scaling to morde, not removing it. It's the pure AP builds like DFG Zhonyas that will probably be weaker.

please learn to read, the HP scaling is for his shield and not for his damage

Mighty KazinFeb 14, 20154 votes

You shouldn't have to build items to give a champion qualities they should have in the first place. That's like saying no ap champ should have a slow because they can build item 3116 . That's why they said that DFG was an unhealthy item because if champions needed it then there was an issue... If every Morde player needs the items you propose, then there's an obvious issue.

VahlenFeb 14, 20155 votes

If Morde was a poor pick before these changes, he'll be irrelevant after them. I don't understand why Riot believes a "Low damage/Immobile/No CC" tank has any place in this game. Then again I've really given up on Riot's balance this season...............it's a bigger joke than it was last season, and that is saying something.

junglerboy16Feb 14, 20154 votes

When I first heard the changes, I thought "hey, now his shield will scale off max HP, nice!" then I read further on and it turns out he won't be tankier in any way, he just has to stack health for his shield to ever stack in a fight. I also thought "reduced health costs? nice!" and then I saw that they are nerfing his HP5 from 8.4 to 3.4. WHAT THE HECK? Riot's design/balance team is going off the deep end fast.

VahlenFeb 14, 20154 votes

Just another pathetic effort by the balance team that will be pushed live and forgotten, here's a big "Fuck You" Meddler. Stop making bad champions worse, you and Scruffy really do a disservice to this game.

LoLKiruFeb 14, 20153 votes

The truly sad part is, Mordekaisers changes would probably be GREAT if he wasn't so easy to kite (hell, you don't even have to do that sometimes; some people can literally just walk away from him)

If he actually had a way of sticking to people, he'd probably actually become a legitimate threat (especially with the prospect of making a spooky ghost out of your ADC)

SouL1essFeb 14, 20152 votes

Oh and don't build damage, please, we're gonna actively punish you for it.

Did you not expect that when Riot said Morde's shield generation will be based off of maximum health?

Ulquiorra995Feb 14, 201512 votes

{quoted}

Did you not expect that when Riot said Morde's shield generation will be based off of maximum health?

So you do no damage and have no CC. Remind me again what prevents enemies from ignoring you until they deal with real threats?

Edit: These changes prove that Riot does not even play their own champions. Mordekaiser is dead if these changes go through.

1.) You build AP. You won't even survive laning phase since your shield does not scale with it and is reduced to 30% versus minions. Late game you are melee, immobile, CC-less, squishy beyond belief caster who even if he does not get blown up instantly only deals subpar damage.

2.) You build tank. Your shield is extremely strong and you are very hard to kill. And that's it. You have zero presence. No damage and no CC. They can literally ignore you.

Saddest thing for me? Played Mordekaiser since season 1 and never built DFG on him. I always preferred Gunblade/WOTA - Rylais - Liandris build path for sustained damage and tanginess. And they will still destroy my favorite champion.

OyddAWqJ5rFeb 14, 20151 votes

Liandry's didn't exist (I think you mean Haunting Guise, many people would buy it and sit on it). But I get what you mean.

lojicianFeb 14, 20152 votes

It's hilarious that riot still thinks they can make an immobile cc-less melee fighter. It's like after their great success with darius they decided "Well this champion is working very well and is totally viable in elos where adcs kite. Wanna do the same thing except not give him a pull or a slow?"

ZephyrDrakeFeb 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

It's hilarious that riot still thinks they can make an immobile cc-less melee fighter. It's like after their great success with darius they decided "Well this champion is working very well and is totally viable in elos where adcs kite. Wanna do the same thing except not give him a pull or a slow?"

at the very least Darius can pull you into him and deal quite a bit of damage. This Morde? he gets to be somewhat tanky... and that's about it. No CC, pitiful damage... gl with playing Morde i guess?

EfficientDynamoFeb 14, 20152 votes

I'm confused as to their motivation for these changes. I get the idea of making him tank, but it looks like all they did is take the utility of his damage (giving him a shield) and moving it to his health. He will still play the same, just be tankier. And since that W speed boost is INCREDIBLY conditional since it requires 1. a nearby ally and 2. an ally moving towards you, he still won't be able to initiate or peel for his team very well.

Honestly, I'm just disappointed. There were so many good ideas posted on the boards to improve Morde, and it looks like they took a solid (albeit unoriginal) idea only halfway.

ChairJockeyFeb 14, 20152 votes

so what do they want us to build on him now. Rylias, gunblade, then hp tank items?.

when they said they wanted his shield to scale on health i was expecting it to be his maximum shield strength would be based on a % of his bonus or total health...

so now he does 0 damage, has 0 cc, but i guess they want someone to build a rylias so its K? if anything they should have reduced his E damage, give his W a small speed boost, and shuffle some of the lost E damage into his Q... or failing that, let his ult steal his targets speed like a longer duration blade of the king active...

hell the whole W magnet thing would have been more usefull if you could cast it on an enemy (deal 0 or heavily reduced damage, while still placing it on yourself but giving you movemetn speed when moving directly towards the target)

junglerboy16Feb 14, 20151 votes

They actually did give W a move speed boost of sorts, and now if he casts it on an allied units, it effects him as well. It still is nowhere near compensating for his damage nerfs or HP5 nerf, but it is something.

FafliXFeb 14, 20152 votes

Actually, you forgot about the huge buff to his passive if you build HP. You forgot about the huge buff to his ult. You forgot about the MS boost on his W. Well, that one is really useless though. If you would always get a boost of lets say 40, and make it stronger if you move towards the other one tagged with your W, or the one tagged with your ult, it would be good and would be viable imo.

AuryielFeb 14, 20156 votes

By buff to his ulti I assume you mean how the ghost scales? Because that should have been fixed a long time ago, that's no excuse.

And the change to his passive is hardly a buff, it forces you to build HP instead of damage when Morde bring literally NOTHING to the table but damage

Morde without damage is completely and utterly useless

Why would I ever pick him?

FafliXFeb 14, 20151 votes

I think, right now you are right. In this state, he is too weak. But I really like the direction. If they higher his numbers a bit, and give him some more MS, maybe if running towards the taget he ulted, he could be really good. If you would get the ghost (and if they buff he ghost a bit too, maybe a better AI), it would be insanely strong. They culd also give him some % damge, or make his damage scale with HP or resistances. Maybe his W could give more resistances, the more you already have. Similar to Leonas W.

Overall, he needs better numberst, but the idea is good imo. A ghost with +100 AD? Sick DpS. You ult a tank and get 500 bonus HP? Nice! And he gains more as well, so you have to tanks who works as meatshields. Might be good in some cases. Ult the AP? +150 AP for you. Now you have even more damage. And it will still deal damage with the extra AD.

Even here, the numbers have to go up, but I love the idea. Like, increase the AD on lower ult-levels. Maybe, you could get the bonus HP and/or AP ans soon an you ult, not if they die. Like Trundle´s Ult in a sense. And increase the duration again (but not necessarily the damage).

Do you see why I like the changes? They will see, that he is too weak, and buff his numbers (I hope). There are so many cool ways to buff him with the current changes.

AuryielFeb 14, 20153 votes

If he's too weak they won't care.

And no I don't understand how someone can like that an immobile, cc-less, short range burst mage is transformed into an immobile, cc-less, short range bruiser who does no damage and is only an ult bot.

Morde's gonna be like the reverse of Yorick, a lane bully that scales exceedingly poorly and whose only purpose in life will be to snatch a ghost after Zed's done wiping the floor with the enemy ad carry. And then said carry gets a QSS and Morde does nothing.

Fun times.

FafliXFeb 14, 20151 votes

He still deals good damage, but he still needs buffs.
His lane is as strong as it was before.
His late is better now imo. The ult is really strong in teamfights. Still, his late was always weak, that is why they need to buff his numbers more and give him more MS in his kit. That way he can stick to people and be relevant as bruiser. 4.Easily fixed: Make QSS only remove the DoT, but still give Morde a ghost if the target dies.

I never said he is good right now, but I think he can easily be made good. The changes sound really interesting to me, and there is huge potential for him. Another burst mage is boring. An AP bruiser sounds way better and more interesting to me. His ult is a unique mechanic in League, so I think there is no problem with him being reliant on it. Look at Trundle or Garen. I think they are prime examples how low CC, low moblity Bruiser should work. Yes, they both have a speedbuff that Morde does not have, but what is not could be in the future.

AuryielFeb 14, 20152 votes

Because both Garen and Trundle are doing so well right now...

And yet, like you said, both have mobility. And CC too.

I would be fine with him being more dps oriented and less bursty, but he's neither. He's just.. there soaking damage.

I liked that Morde could build damage and still be tanky and I was fine with him paying for that with lack of mobility or CC. But now he's just tanky. Wtf is he supposed to do? I wish they would encourage you to build damage to be tanky, so once you do manage to SOMEHOW get to the enemy team, you're a threat. But instead, you're just supposed to build Warmog's...

Saddest thing is, I know for a fact that if Morde turns out to be strong (note, not TOO strong, just strong) he'll be nerfed. But if he's weak, he'll be left in the dust.

FafliXFeb 14, 20151 votes

They want to change him, so he finally becomaes viable, bit you tell us they will never change him if he is too weak?

AuryielFeb 14, 20153 votes

Yes.

Riot doesn't like Morde.

I'm 100% sure they still won't like Morde after these changes go through and they will purposefully leave him weak.

See Urgot, Poppy. He is and will continue to be in the same boat as the two.

FafliXFeb 14, 20151 votes

Granted Poppy is by no means weak. And Urgot is just not in the meta. Look at how fast some champs can become good with litte changes, or shifts in the meta.

AuryielFeb 15, 20151 votes

They are weak right now.

Say that Riot nerfs everything to the point that Poppy or Urgot becomes good again.

Riot has stated that they WILL make them bad again without a second thought. They are content to let them rot while they try to rework them.

The same thing's gonna happen to Morde, except he won't be a priority for a rework because he will have gotten some minor attention that doesn't solve any of the problems Riot has with him.

FafliXFeb 17, 20151 votes

Granted I consider neither Poppy not Urgot as bad. They are just not in the Meta. That said, you can easily carry a game with both. If you know them, they can be extremely strong.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They want to change him, so he finally becomaes viable, bit you tell us they will never change him if he is too weak?

look at how long it took them to even look at him, at most they might give him a few buffs/nerfs the first or second patch and then if he is left weak then they will just stop caring and if he is strong they'll keep nerfing him till he becomes Urgot 2.0

FafliXFeb 17, 20151 votes

That is true. However, they seem to care a lot more about those champions lately.

agbudarFeb 14, 20152 votes

they basically cut his health costs in half... im not going to call this a nerf or a buff im gonna extensively test this out. he is by far more tanky then he used to and i think that people will simply go back to what they used to do build MRpen

that being said i do think that now that you take away his damage you can allow more CC/utility into his kit like what they are doing to his W thats a straight up buff to morde

also his range buff on Q is going to be a very nice addition for last hitting champs.

don't write it off just yet guys. i had lost hope for morde this direction... it gives it back just that they gotta go a little further

AuryielFeb 14, 20152 votes

His laning phase was never really a problem to begin with, except versus counter-picks like Cassiopeia who will still dumpster him

The health cost buffs are basically just Riot's way of completely shoving Morde out of the mid lane and into the top lane

Ok, so once he's there, what happens? Well... he still has no mobility or CC AND he constantly pushes the wave, so he's gonna get camped all day long. Maybe he's tanky enough to survive a gank and just back. Ok, great. Now why would I pick Mordekaiser when Rumble exists? Rumble is 10 times more useful than Morde. Ok, maybe I want a tanky top laner. Mundo? Singed?

Ok, so maybe I want to use Morde because they picked a really strong carry. Well, the only way you can make use of Morde's ulti is to have an assassin mid. Great, might as well never pick him in the first place.

I honestly just do not see how Mordekaiser can be useful to a team with the direction they are pushing him into. If they want him to be a bruiser he needs to be able to stick to his target. If they want him to be kiteable, he needs to pose an immediate threat to the enemy once he's there, be it CC or damage. He cannot have BOTH weaknesses and function properly. Hell, he can't even function as a good protector for his team mates.

Most top laners usually have a way to initiate fights or they dive the enemy back line and wreck them. Morde can't initiate or get to the back line. If he stays near his carry at best he eats a few skillshots. Too bad most assassins do not rely that much on skillshots to begin with.

sigh I just wish Riot would tell us how THEY think Morde can function. What's their plan? Because so far it's just ''Well he's not frustrating to play against''. That's great. Now how is he to play AS or WITH?

junglerboy16Feb 14, 20153 votes

They also sneakily gutted his HP5 by almost 50%, which basically means the health costs look lower, but are proportionately higher.

Jungle Lux GodFeb 14, 20151 votes

Thing is, his health costs are going down by 50% in the late game, and are not going down quite that far in the early game outside of Q, and because the base health nerf is more of an early game nerf than a late game nerf the health cost reductions help a little bit more than the heath regen nerfs will change, although I think this will be more of an understatement because it is a nerf in the early game and a buff in the late game.

MrSexyHoboFeb 14, 20151 votes

2 second qs sound pretty op to me. build up his base damage with pen items like liandries with rylias and tank items like randuins or an early sunfire

AuryielFeb 14, 20154 votes

It's 3 seconds and how the hell are you gonna use those against anyone that is not Darius anyway?

Morde still has the same weakness as before : people can choose to not fight him. Except now, when he does get in range he's not a threat because his damage is over time instead of bursty, so he hits you, you laugh and you walk away.

But hey he's got a great shield!

PartholonianFeb 14, 20153 votes

You don't see any value in forcing people to walk away from wherever you don't want them to be?

Like, say, dragon pit?

I swear, there are too many people on these boards who only see kills. (And in game, too.)

AuryielFeb 14, 20153 votes

Why would anyone care if Morde is there or not? You kite him, make it impossible for him to get his shield up and he's done for.

Compare to other AP bruisers or tanks that ACTUALLY do what you suggest Morde will be doing (I don't think he will).

Rumble : He's just there and you have to really watch your positioning because he can split your team in two, CC you to make it easier for his allies to go in and actually melt your face. Sion : So much CC and tankyness, you're forced to move around him. Gnar : Same as Sion.

Morde has only sub-par damage. He's not a threat.