An honest question about Garen's counterplay

lakeyja900·12/8/2015, 5:39:00 PM·1 votes·704 views

Now before I say anything else let me get this out of the way: Yes, I am a bronzie, but I'm still fairly new to the game since I didn't really get into LoL until around the time Gnar came out. Now that I've found a champion pool that I'm good with I'm starting to climb slowly but surely, so please don't use my rank to tell me how bad I am.

Now for my question: What is Garen's counterplay? I'm not saying he's broken or anything like that and I have nothing against him like I do with Yasuo, but I can't figure out how to beat him without sending satan to the top lane. He's hard to kite because of his Q and the fact that he builds dead man's plate, you can't focus on using your hard CC on him either because nothing stops his spin, you can't focus him down since he's tanky asf, you can't ignore him because he does a crap top of damage, and the moment he leaves combat he regens all his health back.

This is an honest question, what is the counterplay to Garen? Is he like Nasus where you have to shut him down early or you're screwed? What do I need to do to kill him besides ask my ADC to play Vayne/Varus. Thanks for any tips in advance, and good luck with the climb!

17 Comments

Ralanr12/8/2015, 5:47:15 PM2 votes

In my experience, you poke him whenever he tries to heal passively in lane. When he spins, get away from him (he'll slow you so it's tricky).

His Q is a tricky one. If he charges at you with it, you should make it difficult to get to you. Try and mess up his pathing (I've made a lot of Garen's waste their Q on minions).

Course I played Pantheon a lot against him in season 5. So I was a powerful lane bully.

If his healing is being too big of a problem, I'd recommend Executioners culling (I think it's called that). You should try it outside of a ranked game first to get an impression on it, but Grevious wounds could help facing him.

He'll build mainly health, so a health shred item would be useful. But I shouldn't offer items since it varies from champion to champion.

Also: which champions do you play and which face Garen the most?

Romans VI XXIII12/8/2015, 6:03:26 PM2 votes

In Lane: Top needs to get a few early ganks to allow your top to get ahead, garen usually pushes if he tries to poke you at all, and he has no way of escaping any form of hard cc. Take advantage of that as best as possible and get a few early kills, or force him to play safe. Garen has to play aggressive to make you lose farm, or else any one else out scales him and he is useless mid-late game. Garen also has a really hard time against any one with range poke (literally most tops) dont spam your poke, rather set it up for a gank, if he is pushing then start pokin him and keep him from regening his HP with your poke. this will keep him low allowing for an easy kill when your gank comes.

Team FIghts: CC him AFTER he casts Q, especially if this is a slow. this will literally stop him dead in his tracks. As he has no gap closer other than a small MS buff and a slow cleanse which you just stopped him from using. WARD! There is a reason garen is always shown hiding in bushes and what not, cause he has to wait for you to get close. Dont get close to him, ward. if you have vision of him he should never get close to your team. In most fights garen can not ingage if you have any form of CC, as peeling him is really easy with a little bit of team work. (Which is probably the biggest prob in bronze, no one wants to work together)

Cremepie12/8/2015, 6:41:18 PM2 votes

From a basic stand point garen is only strong if you let him be. If he hits you with everything he's got and then let him get away he will win lane. The trick is to avoid an ability and then trade, I like using Kayle against him because her kit can counter everything in his kit. If he charges at you, you can slow him down or speed your self to safety. If he spins you can do the same! If he wastes his Q and tries to leave you can slow him and punish him. If you dont get silenced your ult will always counter his.

My point is the way to beat garen is with sustained damage and avoiding his kit combo, other champs can do this too, but I have yet to find anyone better than kayle atm.

Try Darius

DeathBurst12/8/2015, 6:45:00 PM2 votes

So, I'm just a mid Silver, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I mained Garen in S5, and I got more than 150 games with him in ranked.

If you play against him, you have different choices:

  • you play a champion that can really dominate him by constant poke (Gnar, Vayne, maybe Vlad) and you just outfarm him by zoning him and freezing the lane. In that case, item 3153 is a good first item, for even bigger poke (not with Vlad, obviously ;)).
  • you play an even bigger lane bully than him (Darius, Renekton, ...). Once again, your goal is to outfarm him by zoning him, but in that case, it's pretty much a skill match-up. You need to know the proper skill rotations to get favorable trades (see example with Darius in the end). Generally, it's better to build defense first and just farm. If you build offense and try to fight (which seems logical if you are a bigger bully), a good Garen will simply refuse to fight and freeze the lane just before his tower thanks to his spin which is a great skill for wave-clear.
  • you can't dominate him (and your purpose is to be more useful than him later in the game) and you just try your best to farm. Accept that you will be slightly behind him in farm, and no worries, that is OKAY.

The single biggest mistake you can do against a Garen is trying to kill him. Against a decent player, it's impossible to kill a Garen in lane. Your aim is not to kill him, it's just to not get him fed. Your simple presence will prevent him from free-farming, and if you don't die, he won't get ahead. Whereas if you try to kill him and fail, he will get ahead, take your tower, then roam and snowball other lanes. Don't take the risk to fail. Farm.

For the third case, it can be slightly frustrating/depressing, but you need to keep your eyes on the long-term objectives.

  • If Garen doesn't push, don't blame your jungler if he doesn't come to help you but he is doing something useful somewhere else. Just farm the best you can. Remember Garen only brings one thing to the table: DAMAGES. If you don't give him kills, the gold he gets just with farm is not enough to carry the game by itself. And if he doesn't push you under your tower, you should be able to stay even in farm with him, and just wait for the late game.
  • IF he pushes you under tower, then call your jungler. Remember: it's YOUR responsibility to set-up good gank opportunities for your jungler. If you push, or if the lane is frozen in the middle, your jungler would just waste time trying to help you.

Quick example about bully vs bully trades with Darius:

  • if Darius misses a grab, Garen just run to him, use the spin, silence with Q then runs back, and Garen won the trade.
  • if Darius connect the grab, Garen spin to his face, Q then runs back --> even trade
  • the good move is to keep the grab as a threat and farm. As long as you have your grab available, Garen can't fight. If he tries to fight, wait for him to use his DPS, and when his skills are on cooldown and he wants to retreat, then grab him back, apply 1 or 2 more stacks of Darius passive and Q him when he finally retreats. Congratz, you just won a massive trade.

The trades are different for every single match-up, and there is no miracle, you need to learn them by yourself. With Renekton, you should keep your Fury up, and punish Garen if he uses his skills to farm, but just back if he tries to aggro you first.

Hope that helps :)

Guyy Fieri12/9/2015, 4:17:25 PM2 votes

If I see Garen, I pick a top laner with poke. It doesn't have to be a ranged champion (Aatrox e is actually decent poke against him since it goes through units). I don't use the poke unless he has just regenning. Once he does, that's my cue to poke him again. If you keep this up, Garen major laning advantage is taken away. I really like Kennen into Garen also. While you likely won't kill him after he gets Specters Cowl, you should retain lane pressure. Not to mention if he jumps on you, you have a fairly reliable escape and the ability to easily stun him and run away.

The other option is to for the sustain top laners like Aatrox, Vladimir, Maokai, those laners with life steal or spell vamp built into their kits. Then, you just regen right along with Garen.

LadyRenly12/8/2015, 5:41:38 PM1 votes

The only way to counter play him is to attack him until he's dead, anything less and he'll regen himself to 100%, and then spin to win on top of you becausehe has boots of swiftness and deadmans plate