Everything wrong with this meta in 30 seconds of worlds

Kog then runs down c9 right clicking their entire team to death after they used 2 ults.

As long as your initiation/burst is blown and adc survives, you get run down with no counterplay, they shouldn't have been able to chase after that fight after everything they'd just used.

Considering the entire talking point everyone says about ADC's is "They have to position carefully and get blown up if they step out too far" it does seem a little ridiculous that if you fail your one attempt to catch them when they're out in front of their team you're not allowed a second chance.

{quoted}

So, serious question, considering that Grag ult, Janna ult, Janna E , Galio Ult, locket, and barrier were all blown to keep Kog alive against Ori Ult, Sej ult, and one empowered basic attack from Cait...

Should that have been enough to kill Kog?

The problem isn't whether that should've killed Kog. I agree that that should definitely be enough tools to keep him alive.

The problem is that we've reached a meta where it's more efficient to stack low gameplay defensive tools and keep one carry alive under all circumstances than it is to go on the offensive. It's not very fun for me, as a midlaner, because I cannot kill any backliners right now due to the Lockets, heals, barriers, shields, etc. so I'm relegated to a utility bot role.

I think the problem was, all that was blown and C9 realized there was nothing they could do to blow up a now tanky kog.

It shouldn't have been enough to kill kog, but they should have been able to finish him off while he was out of position. I can't stress that enough. He should have died in the follow-up. Instead C9 died in a situation they should have won the teamfight. Don't get me wrong, C9 made a lot of mistakes by not banning galio or kog... or janna since they were on red. However that was just too much protection and shielding dumped onto an out of position ADC that normally needs to position perfectly to win.

That's the issue, teams are able to get a high-damage adc into the frontline and face tank the enemy team while melting them.

{quoted}

So, serious question, considering that Grag ult, Janna ult, Janna E , Galio Ult, locket, and barrier were all blown to keep Kog alive against Ori Ult, Sej ult, and one empowered basic attack from Cait...

Should that have been enough to kill Kog?

The serious question is

Why add so much surviveability so that one class the game is centered around can succeed

It’s much harder to pull off an attack that C9 did (landing three ult) onto one person along with Orianna W and Caits AA (lulu pix) then it is to draft 3 shields

If your defense can negative all damage in coming and you still can do damage, that’s a huge problem

Thank you.

Everyone acts like this is something insane, but what really happened was that WE used MORE to save Kog maw than the enemy used to kill him.

I mean, look at this situation:

Start

Kog'maw already has a Janna shield on him. That eats all of Sej ult and her Q (because Sej doesnt do that much damage all things considered) Immediately after the Sej ult landed Galio ulted Kog, BOOM now Kog has potentially 30% damage reduction (not bothering to look at the items at this point in the game, but you can assume 25% to be on the low side). So right there the Ori ult is getting dumpstered for damage.

Then IMMEDIATELY after the ori ult, which Kog'maw actually barriered (he got another shield, maybe it was Jannas off cooldown again now that i think about it. In that case, its another stupid mistake from C9 for when they engaged while Kog was already shielded.)

After the ori ult and whatever shield Kog had dropped, Janna ulted, disengaging, and healing Kog'maw, and Locket was activated, giving another massive shield.

Janna got an almost full ult off, which assuming 0 ap (again, too lazy to check the builds outside of censer), that is almost 300 health. and a lvl 11 Kog only has 1237 hp, so thats a MASSIVE heal, which is why it looks crazy that he came out so healthy.

Honestly, NOTHING they do to the current game short of gutting numerous champions would have changed that outcome. WE played a very very very heavy protect the Kog comp, something we have seen for a very long time in competitive play. And they played it will.

If you want to praise the initiation and follow up, why would you ignore the reaction and disengage?

the initiation wasnt perfect, as they engaged on a kog that had a full shield on him already. That right there is like 30% more max hp for Kog before the fight even started.

And after all was said and done, Kogmaw got hit 3 times. Sej ult, ori ult, and one Caitlyn AA. WE disengaged and peeled EVERYTHING else away.

So in fact, the follow up got dumpstered because nothing actually reached Kogmaw.

The problem is when there's strong hard initiators ADC players cry "ADC in 2k17 lul" instead of learning to position

The issue is that Kog can be in the frontline and get hit by everything and the kitchen sink, but because of the strength of support items his squishyness which is an intended weakness for adcs, made up for by positioning well is completely non-existent.

(these support items are also being built by the jungler and sometimes toplaner {tanks, in this case the midlaner as well} ) And thus the game degenerates into putting everything into the adc and hope your adc melts their team before their adc melts yours. Its incredibly boring.

The issue is that defense is just flat-out better than offense. Dash even pointed out that C9 played that entire fight perfectly, but they still weren't even close to killing Mystic. That's the problem, the team that takes the initiative and catches a valuable target should have the advantage. Instead the would-be victim gets made to be 3-4 times tankier by a few button presses that require absolutely no skill to pull off.

so what's the counterplay if he's in a not stupid position, not being bait, run away?

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So... is it just me or Shockwave did literally zero damage there?

barrier and shields and galio ult negates a lot

Except youre missing the part where Caitlyn set up a trap that Kig maw got Ori ulted onto and then took a head shoot. I would agree with most of what you said but just from One janna shield and Galio's ult he didnt even drop under Half hp which That is just retarded

if you don't like the direction the game is going, dont fucking play it.

I agree with everything except this. This logic really annoys the shit out of me. People will never improve anything if instead of telling them where something could be improved you don't have this right and just have to give up on something or someone because you don't like them.

Mother bakes a cake

Me: this is lovely.

Puts honey in the chocolate cake and I don't think it's a really good combination

Me: Well I guess I'll just not fucking eat her cake anymore