I finally got around to playing 
since release. I played her a lot on the PBE and a bit in actual games. I have to say her W cast now feels horrible. Her original double click felt solid, now it feels so unreliable. When I cast it i'm never sure if it's going to work (I use smart cast). Her whole kit feels a lot slower and very weak. I understand that she was very strong, but holy cow the nerf hammer beat her to an inch of her life.
Astôlfo24 votesTaliyah was fine. She was a zone control/disruptor mage.
And then they changed W lockout by removing it. And changed casting method to vector which is so simple anyone could do it. So she became a burst mage as well. So of course the difficult E-W combo that took skill and practice to learn and do well could now just be done W-E. So the E damage had to be neutered.
And then they added bonus damage to Q which added a waveclear/splitpush mage style to her.
"""Surprisingly""" she did well in LCS. So she got gutted as a result. Thanks Riot.
Jeddy0173 votesActually the bonus damage on Q was added before the W change. It was added the patch after she was released.
Astôlfo1 votesMy bad. General point still holds.
XeroKimo5 votesIt was also generally added to help her in lane, cause on release, you can't clear melee minions with all 5 Q's until late, and it takes all 5 to clear all caster minions, it helped her get to a point of the game where she can be strong, but that added to much power, because she wasn't really weak at all when she was released, it was more of trouble of getting to the point of being relevant in the game imo
AuraCreed7 votesI've never liked the vector cast they forced onto Taliyah for two reasons.
It doesn't feel nice to use (which is partially due to the fact that I played her before they changed it) and I don't like how it FORCES you to land the W E combo to do (almost) anything in lane.
Vector cast now includes lack of W indicator. Where the heck did that nice little circle range go off too?
Neekotine4 votesBase HP regen increased to 1.4 from 1.2 Threaded Volley (Q): Cooldown changed to 9/7.5/6/4.5/3 from 8/7/6/5/4 [NOTE: Still buff vs live, which is 10/8.5/7/5.5/4] [Cooldown refund effect from a previous pbe update reverted .]
I guess it can help you out... Smallest buff ever. Sorry for your tears, ik she feel really weak rn
Calabok2 votesso no more OP Taliyah super wave clearer and distance ult maniac and you want her back like that. Typical.
Leo10243 votesThat's what she's supposed to be, on release riot said they wanted her to be a roaming menace who could keep pressure on her lane with her waveclear while ganking others, she's strong but you do realize you're complaining about a champion who's abilities are ALL skill shots and she doesn't even have an ult that does damage right? So what's wrong with her? She takes skill and she has a no damage ult, she was fine how she was
NineTailedMystic1 votesAn ult that does no damage means more is backed into basic abilities. It made Taliyah a much stronger early laner than what she was meant for.
Leo10243 votesAgain theyre all skillshots, skillshots are supposed to be powerful, why? Because even when you master the champ they can be tough to land, so why nerf her? Shes not easy to play and she gets gutted while Darius is super easy with a cone pull and aoe damage with a point and click ult, its stupid that they target taliyah
NineTailedMystic1 votesThere's such a thing as too rewarding. E W Q was too rewarding, no matter how hard it was to hit.
Leo10241 votesWhat about nidalee spear then? Ahris E charm? Blitzcrank pull? Fizz ult? Lux Q? And literally any velkoz ablility? Taliyah has to land 2 skill shots while the others have it all set up for them with having point and click spells or their enemy not being able to do anything
NineTailedMystic1 votesNid Spear doesn't hurt too bad early or its max range. Ahri will only do about 50% with EQW early. People have grievances with Blitz too. Fizz ult shouldn't have got a damage amp since he one shot people without it. Lux QE AA is only going to do about 50% early game and is much easier to trade with. Vel Koz's abilities aren't particularly strong by themselves, but he gets to spam them so they're not very rewarding per hit, only when in succession. Taliyah's early game damage was absurd compared to most mid laners.
Leo10241 votesTaliyah Q isn't super strong if you're behind minions, E alone isn't good, neither is W, yeah she does good damage but because she's using all of her abilities, it's not even debateable she's useless now, I've done good with her since the nerfs but only against bad mid laners, her clear is awful and you get to roam once or twice in the game, stop complaining about "op" champs and learn to play against them, trust me I've tried doing the reverse and Taliyah just isn't good anymore, I have level 5 mastery with her and it's sad seeing her be dropped like this
NineTailedMystic1 votesOh, I agree Taliyah is pretty free right now, I was talking about pre-nerfs.
Leo10241 votesI know, I can accept some nerfs but she got completely gutted
Astôlfo3 votesExcept, it wasn't. But hey, whatever you say bud. :)
Trogmar5 votesso no more OP Taliyah super wave clearer and distance ult maniac and you want her back like that. Typical.
I don't want her to be OP, I just want her W back to the original cast and a slight increase to either Q or the E W combo.
NineTailedMystic1 votesE W did some outrageous damage prenerfs.
Astôlfo4 votesIt was perfectly balanced. It was extremely obviously pre-broadcasted, and to actually land it took skill and practice and learning how to predict where your enemy would go. If they got caught by E-W, that was entirely their problem.
Nuparu2 votesE-W was an Anivia-level oneshot, that wasn't balanced in the slightest. If you were even a teeny tiny bit misplaced, you got instantly killed.
instantly killed.
That skill combo entirely fucked people with low mobility. her E alone fucked people with high mobility. There was a problem in that situation where with any form of tiny CC, taliyah could instantly implode you. It wasn't even like Syndra who does it with a Q+W+Q+R. It was literally two presses and you were gone.
I'm fine with her having frontloaded damage on her Q and whatnot but the E-W was absurd and did way too much fucking damage.
That's what we don't need back. I'd be down to give Taliyah back her waveclear, but not the nuclear missile.
Astôlfo4 votesIncorrect.
It usually did not do more than 50-60% health.
And again, incorrect. People with low mobility were fine. If they were low mobility, the person playing them should have been smart enough to not be in a point-blank unavoidable range. And even if the Taliyah player did it as fast as possible, the delay between the E and the W cast-lockout was so obvious and broadcasted that it didn't matter.
Taliyah didn't need waveclear in the first place, that wasn't the point. She was meant to be a zoning pressure/control mage. The W lockout and harder, non-vector casting method prevented her from being a burst mage. Except Riot decided to remove that. Because Riot.
So if anything, the W lockout should return (and preferably, so should the old casting method), and then all the damage nerfs to E-W should be reverted.
NineTailedMystic1 votesEW doing 50% is outrageous. That's completely ignoring another basic ability that would probably do 20-30% more. There is such a thing as too rewarding, which the reward should be proportional to the effort it takes to hit it, but after a few games you can hit that shit rather reliably so her reward for the effort was not balanced.
inplane3 votesEW doing 50% is outrageous. That's completely ignoring another basic ability that would probably do 20-30% more. There is such a thing as too rewarding, which the reward should be proportional to the effort it takes to hit it, but after a few games you can hit that shit rather reliably so her reward for the effort was not balanced.
50% that can be avoided through simple preempting. 
out of her W and she's helpless (Unless you decide to dash into her E.). Moving to the side or playing someone with a decent amount of movement speed can out-maneuver her E-W combo. 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, and 
are all excellent at avoiding her combo. I'm not even naming specific counters to her yet. Her E-W is like Malz's ult. It forces her into dangerous range, making her flop against people with Blinks.
If you pick an immobile champ into her, then you deserve to lose. They even said in her champion spotlight that she excels at blocking paths through her E. Very effective against Juggernauts and immobile champs. Of course that's false now because her E sucks against anything that isn't an immobile mage. It turned from a high risk high reward skill into a high risk microscopic reward skill.
NineTailedMystic1 votes
In most situations, Flashing out of Taliyah's W is a win for her. Even if she dies, because once 6 rolls around, and dashless champions without Flash won't be able to escape The Wall or a gank.
are all excellent at avoiding her combo. I'm not even naming specific counters to her yet.
Most of the champions you listed aren't mid laners, mostly just Karma, and maybe Kennen/Zilean.
Her E-W is like Malz's ult. It forces her into dangerous range, making her flop against people with Blinks.
Malz ult's range doesn't matter early game, because what're you gonna do to retaliate while you're Suppressed? You also act like blinks are common in champions kits, where the only three I can think of off the top of my head are Ezreal, Talon, and Zed.
If you pick an immobile champ into her, then you deserve to lose.
"Deserving to lose" at Champion Select is not and should not be a thing.
I'll admit Taliyah is pretty free atm, but I would not put more power into her damage. Maybe a tiny bit into E if they dash on the mines, not if they are forced on them. I figure you're a Taliyah main because I see you a lot on threads about her, but she's supposed to be a roaming champion at 6 right? If so, why did she have such a strong solo lane?
inplane5 votesIn most situations, Flashing out of Taliyah's W is a win for her. Even if she dies, because once 6 rolls around, and dashless champions without Flash won't be able to escape The Wall or a gank.
Most of the champions you listed aren't mid laners, mostly just Karma, and maybe Kennen/Zilean.
Malz ult's range doesn't matter early game, because what're you gonna do to retaliate while you're Suppressed? You also act like blinks are common in champions kits, where the only three I can think of off the top of my head are Ezreal, Talon, and Zed.
"Deserving to lose" at Champion Select is not and should not be a thing.
I'll admit Taliyah is pretty free atm, but I would not put more power into her damage. Maybe a tiny bit into E if they dash on the mines, not if they are forced on them. I figure you're a Taliyah main because I see you a lot on threads about her, but she's supposed to be a roaming champion at 6 right? If so, why did she have such a strong solo lane?
Something people have suggested is that if her E isn't triggered by her W, it would do full damage with no falloff. Meaning if the enemy dashes into her E themselves or get pushed or pulled through it, then it does full damage. This makes her play more like a zone control mage and less of a burst mage.
Using is the simplest way to avoid it. Of course make it count and not just use it because you want a successful trade in a small skirmish. 
also works well at a lower CD. Some specific counters are 
, 
, 
, , , 
, 
, and 
. Hard counters are 
, 
, 
, and 
. Any other mage can and will beat her if they know the matchup. players are basically aiming without an indicator right now. If you pretend to run away and then walk back into her E, she's going to miss most of the time. No harm in getting hit by it anyways.
About her being a roaming champion, she has roaming tools. It doesn't have to necessarily be used for roaming. I use the wall to block off areas and to disengage. I use her passive to simply move quickly. It's surprisingly powerful. I never really use Weaver's Wall to roam because her kit is simply too weak to stand against a counter gank right now. She's just a zone control mage who trades off some traditional engage and burst potential for more utility. She excels at closing off areas and creating choke points. Her skills have a lot of windup time though except for her Q, hence why mobile champs destroy her.
Astôlfo3 votesYou realize you could literally just walk out of both E and W and make it meaningless?
Please. Educate yourself.
NineTailedMystic2 votesI never understood why you're so pretentious. It's not that hard to have some respect like inplane there. I'm fine to have discussions about this game because its rather fun, but when people resort to snide comments, insults, and rank shaming, it's pretty sad. Not that I've seen you do the latter two.
I'll reiterate once more, the reward for hitting EW was too high. You go on about how "It took skill to land", but that creates an Azir problem to where the champion is useless if you can't hit it, but insane if you can. I believe she had quite the win rate for experienced player a while ago, but I can't seem to find any statistics for a few patches ago.
Astôlfo5 votesmmk.
I don't see how it's any different from being the same in respect as Anivia's E-R? Except Anivia's E-R is near instantaneous and the latter part unavoidable due to the fact the combo is an instant AoE underneath you that gives you the mark that can be proc'd by the point-and-click E? It's far less broadcasted than Taliyah's combo as well.
NineTailedMystic1 votesAh, I see now. I wasn't the one who compared Taliyah's EW to Anivia's RE. All I said was that EW did some gnarly damage. Anivia's combo is definitely more dumb, but a lesser evil is still an evil, so to speak.
inplane3 votesI never understood why you're so pretentious. It's not that hard to have some respect like inplane there. I'm fine to have discussions about this game because its rather fun, but when people resort to snide comments, insults, and rank shaming, it's pretty sad. Not that I've seen you do the latter two.
I'll reiterate once more, the reward for hitting EW was too high. You go on about how "It took skill to land", but that creates an Azir problem to where the champion is useless if you can't hit it, but insane if you can. I believe she had quite the win rate for experienced player a while ago, but I can't seem to find any statistics for a few patches ago.
People come in all shapes and sizes. Best to understand that and try to think around it lol.
Back to her E-W, it was a bit too high. As satisfying and dangerous as it was, it felt really unfair against bad players at times. Though I can't say if we should always cater to them. Too punishing against bad players and too situational against good players. No one can really say for sure what are the flaws with since she's been changing rapidly for the past 10 patches. Her Lockout era barely had any screen time and that was when she was considered garbage. A plethora of flaws came in the Lockout removal era and now people think those flaws are perfectly intended.
Astôlfo4 votesExcept it isn't. That was her only meaningful damage. No one was dumb enough to get hit by Q. But then again, most intelligent players almost never got hit by full E-W either.
Um, no. You'd need to learn how to pin the enemy between walls or such or otherwise predict/constrict their movement to land it against any half-brained player.
Incorrect, it was balanced. It's actually far more balanced than Anivia's infamous E-R.
inplane5 votesso no more OP Taliyah super wave clearer and distance ult maniac and you want her back like that. Typical.
Her waveclear was shit on release lol. No one wants that 50% bonus damage back. People want her E and W to be relevant again instead of being completely irrelevant and unreliable. The falloff damage on E just makes it tickle against MR. Pair that with a main CC skill that doesn't have a targeting reticle and it's pretty sad.
inplane2 votesWhoever downvoted my previous post, if you're looking for an afk farm midlaner, then isn't for you. She was never meant to play like that and clearly shouldn't be able to as we have seen what it does to her. It's too strong in pro play. 
, , 
, , and 
are more along the lines of that.
Calabok1 votesUNACEPTABALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!
Boulderox1 votesthere are a few problems i have with taliyah and with riot because of taliyah
~she was so good at pushing waves and roaming, LIKE SHE WAS DESIGNED TO DO, she had to be nerfed because 
was irrelevant.
~her E is just so unimpactful now, its damage is nice, but the only good damage now is Q
~She is now a standard mage with a roam ult, she lacks the roam-centered theme
~riot wants her to have Q be the focus of power, but when they frontload to much power they nerf it and have to put it in other places which allows for E max
~anyone that complains about the vector cast, use smartcast... it makes it so much more user friendly, else, practice, i still miss it too, its a hard skill shot
~Her waveclear problem could have been fixed with a simple scaling minion damage, making her weak in beginning but allow her to be a roaming sieging mage late game, but no...
~her 50-0 was too big of a hit honestly on top of the e nerf, it really fucked her out of worlds hard, and honesty is just plain upsetting when 
spend patch after patch being a problem while being love tapped, or compensated, but when she is picked in lcs and has an average winrate (53% in summer split), she is too much...
inplane2 votesthere are a few problems i have with taliyah and with riot because of taliyah
~she was so good at pushing waves and roaming, LIKE SHE WAS DESIGNED TO DO, she had to be nerfed because
~her E is just so unimpactful now, its damage is nice, but the only good damage now is Q
~She is now a standard mage with a roam ult, she lacks the roam-centered theme
~riot wants her to have Q be the focus of power, but when they frontload to much power they nerf it and have to put it in other places which allows for E max
~anyone that complains about the vector cast, use smartcast... it makes it so much more user friendly, else, practice, i still miss it too, its a hard skill shot
~Her waveclear problem could have been fixed with a simple scaling minion damage, making her weak in beginning but allow her to be a roaming sieging mage late game, but no...
~her 50-0 was too big of a hit honestly on top of the e nerf, it really fucked her out of worlds hard, and honesty is just plain upsetting when
is designed to roam, but she has to setup her roams like 
and 
does. Shes a control mage who zones through the use of her basic skills, but mostly her E and W. Riot even said they reverted her Q because they wanted to setup her roams. Not just shoot Q into the wave and be on her merry way down to botlane. This means she has to outplay her lane opponent and be crafty with her movement.
Shooting Q-W into the wave and then saying goodbye is 's job. He's the original pure-roaming midlaner. He has to be able to do that because his kit is limited to doing just that. 's kit has that notion to the general populace because she gained popularity when her zoning skills were gimped during patch 6.14. She became easier to play and basically an easier version of because only half of her kit was relevant. Hence why pros picked her up without much practice required to be successful with her.
Calabok1 votes
Shooting Q-W into the wave and then saying goodbye is
YEA WHAT HE SAID. BALANCE THAT SHEIT
CasterGilgamesh1 votesi agree with everything but the ashe bit.....that was uncalled for
Boulderox1 votesi agree with everything but the ashe bit.....that was uncalled for
she was second to , and wasn't nerfed until after project ashe was out and made a fuck ton of money for riot, we see it with SG (fizz) when he was the next top tank assassin.
CasterGilgamesh1 votesAshe for the longest time got ignored as i see it she only got popular because she got that project skin
FantasySniper1 votesI loathe getting her in ARAM because her [W] feels so clunky and doesn't even work half the time.
Comrade Guylas1 votesThe fuck, thought this was gonna be another salt thread about them gutting her Q minion damage and nerfing E again. Taliyah W vector cast threads are dead
(also maybe I'm biased as mastery 7 taliyah, but I find the W vector quite easy to use unless you're using normal cast)
Jebiwibiwabo1 votesI feel like she needs a rework tbh, most of her skills don't really match up with her identity (besides q and ult), her kit generally feels fairly boring (unless fed of course) along with seemingly repetitive combos... which remain the same every time. Her passive they can add onto her ult then give her something useful and unique. I have no idea how they would make this champion work tbh, she just feels clunky and hard to balance in a way that she is meta and not broken or underpowered, why pick taliyah when you can just pick lissandra tbh.
I just bought her too and was REALLY disappointed when i found out her ult had 180 sec cooldown at level 6.
