CertainlyT should give buffs to Garen.

BranchofSin5580·May 12, 2015·4 votes·514 views

Let's be honest.

He is trash.

He is only viable as a counterpick to somewhat combo reliant champions such as Riven and even then, he is far from being the best at it.

Now I'm expecting this to get downvoted by Goldies and below, saying "Garen is fine, you just need to L2P" when infact, he is not, he is far from being fine.

He is like Nocturne, most people say he is "fine" and is simply "niche" but you never actually see him being played unless you are playing him yourself.

21 Comments

The SoulforgedMay 12, 20153 votes

They could nerf him in his already very strong points and then buff him in the areas where he's lacking such as mobility.

DJ Di0May 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They could nerf him in his already very strong points and then buff him in the areas where he's lacking such as mobility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJti5QB3hzM

And then also make his spinny twirly sword ability scale with crit chance like rework-Ashe and call it a day.

Boom, viable.

TotalJerkMay 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

buff him in the areas where he's lacking such as mobility.

His weaknesses are just as much a part of his core identity as his strengths, if you shift his power budget towards mobility, he just wouldn't be Garen anymore.

Critmaster GarenMay 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

They could nerf him in his already very strong points and then buff him in the areas where he's lacking such as mobility.

they just buffed his mobility with the new cleaver.

a mobility item for garen, that could keep up with items like stattic shiv, triforce, or phantom dancer was all ive ever wanted. the item is perfect for him, and that extra cdr opens up more build paths for him.

i can now easily hit cdr cap when switching out spirit visage for hexdrinker/maw for example, and get more lategame damage without losing out on too much defense.

id actually say he is close to being fine. if he was to get any buffs or changes, id personally

remove the self slow on his rank 5 spin, so scratching a jungle creep or lane minion in a teamfight by midgame doesnt screw you over anymore
slightly increase the resistance or %dmg reduction bonus on his w so he can get away with building a bit more damage
incease the crit scaling on his e, to give him a bit more duelling power lategame
give his ult an indicator like chogath ult, zeds ult or other execute ults have to let him know when a target is in kill range for the ult

id start with the first point and then go down the list in baby steps and observe

he may be a nieche pick, but i have seen him repeatedly pop up in diamond and other high ranked games over the course of the last weeks after the cleaver changes. hes really close to being fine and probably even competitive.

if there is one thing i dont want to happen, is that he gets nerfed, because he starts stomping bronze too hard again. so if there were any buffs to come, they would either have to come slow, or somehow raise his skillcap.

the same goes for darius. cleaver and righteous glory in combination with the ult buffs have given him enough sticking power, mobility and lategame damage to make him a worthwile pick again.

TotalJerkMay 12, 20153 votes

Silly suggestion, but what if Garen could ult large and epic monsters?

Critmaster GarenMay 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Silly suggestion, but what if Garen could ult large and epic monsters?

this would be another possibility to consider. i dont think it would put him over the top, if he was given the ability to ult buffs and nashor or dragon.

they would probably put a 1000 damage cap on it like on chos ult, or nunus consume. so you cant completely outsmite junglers with it. but its a good idea.

even on cdr cap, his ult is a really valuable cooldown for him, that is considerably longer than feast or consume.

it would give people another reason to have a garen on their team without making him directly easier to play. nice idea.

redniwediSMay 12, 20152 votes

No. Just no. No one brings CertainlyT into this when asking for serious buffs, no matter your opinion of the guy. You don't get to mention CertainlyT and then call out people you will downvote you.

Garen currently a bit niche, but that just shows how well the meta works for him. Outside of the meta he is strong enough to not need buffs, but not so strong to have earned nerfs. Just let the meta shift as it always does and Garen will come around again. There's no need to force the meta's hand here, just let it run it's course.

Nocturne is an example of a champion who is legitimately weak for his role, where as Garen is not.

BranchofSin5580May 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No. Just no. No one brings CertainlyT into this when asking for serious buffs, no matter your opinion of the guy. You don't get to mention CertainlyT and then call out people you will downvote you.

Garen currently a bit niche, but that just shows how well the meta works for him. Outside of the meta he is strong enough to not need buffs, but not so strong to have earned nerfs. Just let the meta shift as it always does and Garen will come around again. There's no need to force the meta's hand here, just let it run it's course.

Nocturne is an example of a champion who is legitimately weak for his role, where as Garen is not.

Garen has been trash ever since the Sunfire Stacking was removed.

The Season III Black Cleaver / Warmogs Meta kind of brought him back again, but both items were nerfed, together with Garen himself, so he fell into the trash can once more.

Nocturne isn't "weak" in his role in any way. His ganks are quick and deadly and he has the ability to completely bypass vision.

The issue with him is that he simply is too fucking niche to ever be worth picking over something like Vi or Jarvan, and those aren't very popular junglers nowadays.

Exactly like Garen.

redniwediSMay 12, 20151 votes

You're so far behind on the times, it's hilarious.

Nocturne is niche BECAUSE he is weak as an assassin and as a fighter. If you want an assassin you pick someone who also has disengage instead. If you want a fighter you pick a bruiser instead.

Garen did fall off in Season 3, however the meta shifted and he started to come back in Season 4, and with his passive buff, ult CDR buff, and the change to Black Cleaver he is back in full force as a counter pick. With a small meta shift Garen could be a very mainstream pick.

Please do a little research before you talk about something you apparently know nothing about.

Only Play DariusMay 12, 20153 votes

Well, Riot enlisted CertainlyT to buff Urgot, and using his godlike sense of balance, he turned the posterchild of "Trash Tier" into a respected LCS pick.

I may not personally like his champions ( Darius can rot in hell for all I care, that roughneck is only fun for the person playing him and his playerbase consists of some of the most verbally abusive players I have ever come in contact with) but you have to admit, he got it right with the Urgot buff.

BranchofSin5580May 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAAj1szP,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-05-12T02:27:57.477+0000)

Well, Riot enlisted CertainlyT to buff Urgot, and using his godlike sense of balance, he turned the posterchild of "Trash Tier" into a respected LCS pick.

I may not personally like his champions ( can rot in hell for all I care, that roughneck is only fun for the person playing him and his playerbase consists of some of the most verbally abusive players I have ever come in contact with) but you have to admit, he got it right with the Urgot buff.

I play Darius, never been banned, ranked restricted or chat restricted.

But I do try to make the enemy laner go 0/7 in the first 10 minutes and hope the enemy team starts flaming the poor guy.

Also, Darius is "fun" to play against if you pick someone who can actually fight him.

Renekton.

Gare JordansMay 12, 20151 votes

The problem is that Garen is supposedly an early game champion, but his early game is outclassed by so many other champions. His late game is complete garbage because he's classified as an early game champion. I rarely win games with a Garen on my team because he falls off so hard. He just becomes a giant meat-shield late game. Whereas, you could pick a Xin Zhao and do ridic amounts of damage early and still do respectable damage late.

ProfDrDeathMay 12, 20152 votes

Garen is no longer an early-game only champion.

Between the way his passive stacks up and the new Black Cleaver, he can have quite a impact come late-game, especially with regard to how fast he can stack that Cleaver on multiple people. Full spin = full stacks, so spin to win.

Voluug13May 12, 20151 votes

Knowing CertainlyT, Garen could end up with 8 passives and 4 mobility spells with 3 escapes, hard CC and ranged low CD waveclear.

Oh and more grimdarkz 90's anti-hero vibes.

RenailleMay 12, 20151 votes

CertainlyT

Garen doesn't need a dash, knock up, percent armour pen, percent hp damage and tons of utility.

Sir YamazukiMay 12, 20151 votes

Depends on what you mean by buffs, I don't think he needs more damage, or mobility, and that's basically the only thing Riot ever buffs honestly. One thing that would be nice is if his W active made him take a % of the damage his allies take around him instead. Pretty much allows him to be useful without needing to be given more damage or cc to be a threat in a team fight, and it would require timing to make use of it since it's on a long cooldown and it wouldn't need to last as long as the courage buff either. This would improve his team fighting without having an impact on his 1v1s/split pushing.

Critmaster GarenMay 12, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAAj1szP,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-05-12T04:10:43.205+0000)

Depends on what you mean by buffs, I don't think he needs more damage, or mobility, and that's basically the only thing Riot ever buffs honestly. One thing that would be nice is if his W active made him take a % of the damage his allies take around him instead. Pretty much allows him to be useful without needing to be given more damage or cc to be a threat in a team fight, and it would require timing to make use of it since it's on a long cooldown and it wouldn't need to last as long as the courage buff either. This would improve his team fighting without having an impact on his 1v1s/split pushing.

this would be a gigantic buff and basically turn him into a tank.

i think you underestimate the effect that would have. it would be similar to maos ult.

Sir YamazukiMay 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAAj1szP,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-05-12T04:13:29.449+0000)

this would be a gigantic buff and basically turn him into a tank.

i think you underestimate the effect that would have. it would be similar to maos ult.

It doesn't have to be a whole lot, and he would be taking the damage and not it being reduced, also it wouldn't really last as long from what I had in mind. Garen isn't really built as a damage dealer, but a tank with BC. This is why he isn't that good, he has no damage threat, nor cc to really be focused. If Garen ever is buffed, I rather his tanky portion be buffed than his damage.

Critmaster GarenMay 12, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAAj1szP,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-05-12T04:18:50.243+0000)

It doesn't have to be a whole lot, and he would be taking the damage and not it being reduced, also it wouldn't really last as long from what I had in mind. Garen isn't really built as a damage dealer, but a tank with BC. This is why he isn't that good, he has no damage threat, nor cc to really be focused. If Garen ever is buffed, I rather his tanky portion be buffed than his damage.

garen is really damn good if properly built with a mix of damage and defense. he will have enough survivability to get in and assassinate a squishy, get back out, heal up on his passive and get back in.

if youre gonna build him with 4 tank items and cleaver, yea. hes gonna hit like a wet noodle and generally not do anything. ive repeatedly seen tank garens just get chewed up by ad carries, because they outhealed any damage he could do to them. this is now worse than ever with the way the bork passive applies lifesteal with the last patch.

but if you get into a fight with 400 ad, a ghostblade active, a randuin slow, and an infinity edge in your inventory, on 21/9/0 masteries, youre a serious threat. he doesnt have that crit scaling for no reason.

my preferred build at the moment, with variations depending on team comp and opponents of course:

item 3143 item 3071 item 3142 item 3031 item 3156 item 3269

if you switch the maw for a spirit visage, it puts you to cdr cap. (or you could stick with 35% by picking the mastery, or cleaver + inonian boots + the 5% mastery for 40%).

this doesnt just give you a ton of damage and enough survivability to get through a fight, but also a movement speed active on the ghostblade, movement speed on your spin from cleaver, and an aoe slow to stick to people on randuins.

he excells in small skirmishes in 2v2 or 3v3 scenarios. because with a build like this, hes tanky enough to survive the damage of about 3 opponents, while being able to wreck them with his spin, and finishing one off with his ult.

if you build him full on tank, hes going to survive in the midst of the enemy team for a couple of seconds, but hes not going to have any effect.

SpecterVonBarenMay 12, 20151 votes

I'd rather he give buffs to Mundo. At least Garen is actually useful for more than just being a giant meatshield.

FirstSergeantBimMay 12, 20151 votes

Holy shit you guys just don't get it. Garen is God-Tier. Garen is kill security. Garen is death. Garen is a wall that protects his team through an unwavering onslaught of mobile damage, durability and sustain matched by no other champion. He is simple and effective. All of these "weaknesses" he supposedly has are solved through the incredible itemization options he has available to him. Continue believing Garen is trash though, because I'd hate for more people to pick him up and see Riot nerf him into the ground.