If support needs so much incentivizing to lower queue times, maybe the role needs a redesign? [Long]

i cant move wtf··3 votes·274 views

Supports, by definition, are the 5th man of a 5 man roster. There are only 3 lanes and 1 jungle, and so they're the role that doesn't get a guaranteed income stream.

This is a really cool limitation! Why isn't the role waaaaaaay more interesting than it is? Why aren't people flocking to it as much as the other roles? A support champion needs to be able to have power and impact WITHOUT much gold. They have to be crafty and efficient.

But the support role as it is now doesn't seem to embrace much of this. Instead supports are dependent on either a very limited artificial income streams through "support itemization" or having kits overloaded with CC or high base damage stats so that less gold doesn't matter. Thresh is a great support because without any gold all of his abilities have massive displacement or slows. Why can't that be just be one possibility of a larger picture of what support can be?

The income streams for supports feel so quantized and limited. Why can't item 3303 give half as much gold as it does but have no cooldown on its passive? Then that might make an attack speed focused support become viable by providing a constant barrage of ranged poke to get them fed.

Which brings up another point. Why shouldn't the support be expected to get fed if they're good? The itemization hurts this idea. You can only proc item 3302 or item 3303 so often and therefore only get so much gold from it. You can ks kills, but that's not a very consistent way for a role to get ahead.

What about a support item that let's you share experience and gold with a jungler? What about a support item or mastery that gives them a tick of gold every time an enemy is in vision of one of their wards, incentivizing deep vision? What about a support item or mastery that gives them bonus gold for assists and reduced gold on kills? What about passive frog/critter spawns scattered throughout the jg around the camps that you can pick up (similar to bard charms) and give gold/exp that supports can steal away from enemy jglers on their way to ward or pick up from their own jg for similar reasons.

Support honestly has a lot of potential to be among the most interesting and popular in the game. Supports deserve a reliable and alternative income/exp stream option that doesn't take away from junglers and laners, and allows them to itemize like anyone else on a consistent basis, not dependent on how much they ks.

The support role shouldn't default to being the ADCs pet. It should be a rich and impactful role, as much as a jungler or any laner. I think adding more powerful alternate income/exp streams will help open up and diversify the role a lot, making it appeal to a wider variety of players.

9 Comments

Subject 51 votes

If the classes of LoL was like that of an empire faction in Age Of Empires: then supports would be the faction in which they get only 1/4 the resources compared to it's allies. Do you REALLY want to play that civilization?

i cant move wtf1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jiBMRsRP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-04T01:20:24.087+0000)

then supports would be the faction in which they get only 1/4 the resources compared to it's allies. Do you REALLY want to play that civilization?

Well what do you think of alternate income streams comparable with laners/jg? Like a item 3303 that gives half the gold but has no cooldown?

Subject 51 votes

[{quoted}](name=i cant move wtf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jiBMRsRP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-10-04T01:23:44.104+0000)

Well what do you think of alternate income streams comparable with laners/jg? Like a item 3303 that gives half the gold but has no cooldown?

It would benefit only certain champions, and these very specific champions would be DOT mages like Brand and this would lessen diversity in those roles because of that. The strategy in Age of empires is a lot like how it is in LoL - when you play with teammates (bot lane), you catapult people by giving them resources and slingshotting them into the strongest age ASAP - weakening your allies but overall strengthening your team. Being the person that just gathers these resources and ships them off is boring as hell . . . even if you win. Same goes for being a step-stool for the ally Vayne / Ashe who does a billion damage for no reason other than Riot says so.

i cant move wtf1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jiBMRsRP,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-04T01:57:09.821+0000)

It would benefit only certain champions, and these very specific champions would be DOT mages like Brand and this would lessen diversity in those roles because of that.

It would also benefit attack speed oriented champions. But that's just one alternate stream. In the post I'm arguing for a multitude of more powerful alternate streams (similar to how there are already spellthief, relic sheild and coin). So it's more about making more interesting alternate streams and making them comparable to the gold laners and jgs get.

Friendly Ram1 votes

i'm fine as long as i can bring the weird down to bot lane. Jarman/shen/galio supports are all quite fun. the ideas for opening the role can work but most people would probably ignore the gimmicks.

BubblyRainbows1 votes

I am not saying your ideas are bad. They are actually generally good. But I just wanted to offer the insight of a former support main who quit support at the beginning of last season as to part of why very few people play support. Some ADCs are INCREDIBLY toxic to their supports. Any time ANYTHING goes wrong in the bot lane, it's somehow the support's fault.

Your ADC ignores the incoming jungler despite your pinging warnings and dies 3v1? "Protect your ADC, noob!" You try to save them and die? "Quit feeding! Trash player!" You try to leave the last hit on the enemy champ for the ADC and the enemy gets away? "Why didn't you secure the kill?" Kill the enemy champion because your ADC is low/out of reach? "Quit KSing! Report support!" You try to ward the river or jungle and get caught out? "Stay with your ADC! You can't fight alone." Stay near your ADC and only ward closer to lane? "Why don't we have any vision! Do your job, support!" Try to freeze a wave while your ADC is dead/back at base? "Quit taking the CS! You're trash!" Go back to lane to buy items and your ADC gets killed while you're gone? "Where were you? Useless!"

I, and many of my former support player friends, just got tired of being blamed for EVERYTHING, and recognized for NOTHING we did in the bot lane. With certain ADC players (not all of them, but it happened way more than I was willing to put up with), as a support you can't win. No matter what you do, you're wrong, trash, and should be reported. Unfortunately, though I like many of your ideas, you still have to either work with an ADC or Jungler, and are still relegated to the role of "Role X's Pet".

i cant move wtf1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Amy the Raven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jiBMRsRP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-04T02:39:36.556+0000) Unfortunately, though I like many of your ideas, you still have to either work with an ADC or Jungler, and are still relegated to the role of "Role X's Pet".

I play a fair bit of support and I do agree the dynamic of blame can be common in the bot lane. IMO that's more a symptom of the inherent frustration of working with another person than something related to the role. A school project with a randomly assigned partner can feel similar.

I do think the support role always getting relegated to "role X's pet" can be remedied though if supports were given a gold/exp stream comparable to other laners/jg. The closest a support can get to a comparable stream is with the gimped support items that you can only proc about 2-4 times a minute and ksing kills. I don't see why the role should be inherently gimped. A good support should be able to have access to the same gold and exp as other laners without taking away from them. Maybe Riot is doing this as a subversive way to teach the world to share but when things like autofill have to be implemented because the demand for the role is too low, leading most likely to worse gameplay from people getting their off-roles, you have to wonder if this orchestrated gold scarcity for the role is really healthy/worthwhile.

BubblyRainbows1 votes

Personally, I agree completely. I said YEARS ago that support should have the two key gold rewards swapped. They should get kill gold (or close to it, anyway... say 75%) for assists, and assist gold for kills. This way they could profit from their contribution to the work of getting their teammates fed, would be less likely to troll their teammates by KSing to get gold, would be able to get more expensive builds overall, and could actually contribute better. Plus support items wouldn't have to be quite as gold efficient since the supports would have more gold to work with. They might even be able to introduce some much more expensive, but more impactful support items.

i cant move wtf1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Amy the Raven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jiBMRsRP,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-10-04T03:15:31.268+0000)

They should get kill gold (or close to it, anyway... say 75%) for assists, and assist gold for kills.

Yeah, a mastery or item passive would be perfect for this and would probably go a long way for botlane relations.

This way they could profit from their contribution to the work of getting their teammates fed, would be less likely to troll their teammates by KSing to get gold, would be able to get more expensive builds overall, and could actually contribute better.

I'm not going to lie, when I play support I generally play Sona and adopt a full carry mentality. I WANT the kills because I think I can carry as hard or harder than the ADC. This is a very effective strategy because base damage on most support champions is disproportionately higher to make up for the fact that they're expected to have less gold. I think the role could be much more than this but the gold deficit is a bit too limiting, making champions with lots of CC the right choice most of the time.

Plus support items wouldn't have to be quite as gold efficient since the supports would have more gold to work with. They might even be able to introduce some much more expensive, but more impactful support items.

Yeah, exactly. The itemization is so gold efficient right now because supports are expected to have less gold that we see so many tank/support jgs become meta to take advantage of it.

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