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Preemptive don't-nerf-Darius/Cho request because...

Noxian Pride··1 votes·987 views

...From a glance, Gargoyle Stoneplate has the potential to make both of them insane. As most players know, True Damage has very few things that reduce/increase it. Notably, stoneplates reduction doesn't apply. This means...

A: Darius players will actually be able to teamfight without worrying as much about their health. Their base damage doesn't matter as much when they're in the stackbuilding phase of their engage, and by the time they're dunking it will have worn off.

B: Cho'Gath not only appreciates the extra survivability, but his ult actually has a health-based scaling. More likely than not this is going to become core on tank Cho.

So what I'm asking is simple: Before you go gutting these champions (among others potentially, but those are the first two that came to mind), look at the item that (possibly) breaks them. Please don't give us another "Sejuani had her time in the limelight" scenario.

13 Comments

Ahristocats1 votes

as an ADC darius player, i will never buy that shit 60% damage reduction on our own damage is incredibly retarded on a juggernaut

DeathBurst1 votes

As OP said, that's only for 6 seconds at the start of a fight. Let's you build your stacks safely, ult someone without the damage reduction since it's true damage, then the damage reduction wears off and you're full HP and fully stacked, and you can keep going. It's an easy way to ramp up, and you don't really care about the damage reduction while you're ramping up.

What's your current standard build on Darius?

Noxian Pride1 votes

Janna X Rubick (Previously Dr Sona x Rubick) is known for running Darius as an ADC with full ADC builds. Something I find unique, interesting, and to be completely unmimickable by myself.

I love it. It's hilarious in the best way. If I recall he hit either master/challenger with it actually.

Ahristocats1 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfwuqCkq9ao

currently i'm diamond 1 ~~70 lp as i only play ranked to not decay due to studying

as for my build i wouldn't call it "full adc" you would make people imagining that i'm building crit i simply build my items around trinity force, taking sterak gage for bonus sheen damage and most of the time SV to heal more. the 3 other items really depends but most of the time i take the best magic resistance item/best armor item

as for stoneplate, the problem is even if you want to use it to stack hemorrage you're still losing damage, and A LOT of damage the sheen damage for instance, it will be over 400 once sterak gage ad is buffed, if you reduce it by 60% that's more than 200 damage lost

i will of course try this item, but i have no idea how to use except "oh shit i'm in danger"---->use it--->heal more with Q due to hp being increased

Noxian Pride2 votes

Given your playstyle that's understandable, and I give you major props for making it work out.

Now, a typical cleaver-into-full-tank build, on the other hand...

In fact, I'd actually be more concerned for you, now that I think about it. An item that you have 0 intention of using could potentially cause your champion of choice to be nerfed anyway, which to me just isn't fair.

God Raijin1 votes

Idk, what can you really say about the whole thing? If the Item makes the champions too strong ---then the champions are too strong.... The item is probably going to be pretty fair for every other tank champion in the game, so I doubt riot is going to cater specifically to these two champions and go about nerfing/ changing the item to specifically work around 2 champions that can abuse it.

Noxian Pride1 votes

I'm just seeing round 2 of Sejuani's gutting coming up and that bothers me as a Darius player.

For anyone who missed it: Sejuani ate heavy nerfs because of Cinderhulk's existence. Then Cinderhulk got nerfed, but Sej wasn't buffed back up, so Sej was left sub-par at best for a very long time.

If nerfs happen, they happen. I can't tell Riot "Don't do this" and make them listen. I'm going to be pretty upset if we have a repeat of this scenario though, because not only does that gut a champion I love to play, but that also would indicate Riot didn't learn from their mistake.

God Raijin2 votes

Yeah I feel you on the whole Sejuani thing. I mean if riot were actually smart on this one, they would make true damage be affected by the self damage debuff from gargoyle stone plate rather than just outright nerfing Darius Chogath (assuming that they become too strong.)

Noxian Pride2 votes

[{quoted}](name=God Raijin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jegEk0pE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-04-28T08:39:10.259+0000)

...they would make true damage be affected by the self damage debuff from gargoyle stone plate rather than just outright nerfing Darius Chogath...

You read my mind. That'd be my first thought on item-nerfing to prevent champion-gutting.

God Raijin1 votes

Only issue is that even if they did that, I still feel like Darius may end up getting nerfed anyway. Because, think of this, Darius heals based on 12% missing hp per champion hit (3 max) so let's say you use stone plate, your max hp becomes much higher meaning that your Q will heal way more as well. Also, the issue that darius commonly has is trying to activate his 5 stack passive in the first place. Basically "try to get your stacks and 'go off' before you get killed" Stoneplate is going to make him so tanky initially that stacking-up will be so much easier for him.

To add, just the fact that granting up to 80 armor and MR will just give him that much more "reinforced" HP especially with the healing on his Q is going to be really strong.

Noxian Pride1 votes

I feel like one of us is misunderstanding stoneplate to a degree. On a surface level Q is healing more, but if (as I was led to believe) his HP goes back down when the effect of stoneplate ends, he essentially regained the same amount of health as if he didn't use stoneplate, after the fact. This not accounting for damage he takes while stoneplate is active.

I do agree stoneplate is most likely going to be very strong on him for the reasons you listed though. Being able to stack while worrying a LOT less about getting blown up in the process is the #1 reason that I'd take stoneplate on Darius, actually.

Eedat1 votes

Darius players will actually be able to teamfight without worrying as much about their health.

Lol wtf? I'm not even saying nerf Darius but this statement is ridiculous

Noxian Pride1 votes

Aside from the obvious weakness of getting kited, one of Darius' bigger weaknesses is that his stacks gate his lategame damage hard. He has no defensive steroid and his only heal is on his Q, which is heavily conditional (how many targets did he (an immobile champion) hit and how much HP is he missing). Unless he's fed out the ass it's a bigger issue than you'd think.

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