Do people think renekton is fair?

MysticFlameHaze··1 votes·1,053 views

I was looking at his kit and the way he is built seems alright, but then i thought about it some more, he's a juggernaut but has no spacing between his combos, he is supposed to be a good damage tanky character but yet when he wants to fight you he goes all in Empowered W's you for a 1.5 second stun Qs throws an auto in the dashes out immediately, then he just freely sustains off minions with his Q.

I honestly think if he were to be more balanced to play against he would have a better window to fight him instead of him just going in bursting you then running till the next combo is up once his E is off cooldown. The duration he is allowed to hold his stun up is a bit long imo as well, 7 seconds.

17 Comments

Variks the Loyal2 votes

Renekton is classified as a Diver by Riot, not a Juggernaut.

Secondly, consider Renekton's design and the greater game. Renekton's kit is built entirely around laning phase; his E allows you to recast when you dash through minions. Q allows you to harass without pulling minion aggro and heal. W allows you to set up ganks and effectively trade/all in and synergizes very well with Tiamat as an early buy.

After laning phase, his strength is much more conditional. The large Q heals are gone because you aren't using it on 5+ minions and the enemy laner. Getting a double dash off of E is a lot more difficult, and the W stun locks you into an animation which you can't use Tiamat to break out of anymore (You've upgraded to Titanic since laning phase). You can use your ult to break it, but there could be better uses for your ult.

Renekton is designed around bullying the laning phase, and anywhere else during the game, he's significantly less effective. That's the balance.

MysticFlameHaze1 votes

I get your points but most of the time because he is strong during the early phase just like fiora and other champs, but he just snowballs from the laning phase to dominate your team, it has been occurring pretty often lately and its not a very fun thing to deal with. Because he actually is a pretty good snowballing champ.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

The game becomes about preventing that snowball. Give up CS and play safe. If you get chunked, leave and TP back. If he doesn't chunk you out with a favorable trade, he can't dive you under tower without a jungler. It also helps to roam; taking Scuttle Crab where you can and maybe ganking mid, depending on what champ you're playing.

If you deny Renekton kills, you'll deny his mid-game power spike and begin to outscale him. If you can reach 1 item before he finishes his second, then roam and spread your influence with your jungler, taking dragons and towers elsewhere.

The first rule of Renekton: don't fight Renekton. Coming from someone who plays a lot of Renekton, it's all about staying safe and farming where you can. Concede the early game, and you win later on.

woodvsmurph1 votes

Renekton is mostly on-par with other toplaners - maybe a slight edge to give him a dozen cs lead or so, but that's about it. 0 items, he actually loses to quite a few toplaners. With cleaver, he can win many of those, but opponents can play safe enough, miss a few cs, farm under tower, and never die to him 1v1. The issue is when GANKS happen. Give a renekton a gank, you get a kill. Give a renekton 2 kills early game, you can get tower dove 1v1 and no one can fight him 1v1 if he has all his abilities and summoners up - not for quite awhile. Not fun to deal with, but neither is a fed darius, a fed brand (sup or mid), a fed master yi or hecarim jungle, or a fed twitch or draven or any other adc. If he goes cleaver into titanic, he has no real resistances. If your team has good cc, you can chain cc him for about 3-4 sec and just nuke him down through his ult. That's one of the reasons I don't normally build titanic 2nd.

woodvsmurph1 votes

You forgot lower late game base stats than any other comparable champion. And that renekton's abilities mostly scale off bonus ad - something he doesn't get to build a lot of unless he wants to get 2-shot by the enemy team.

woodvsmurph2 votes

Renekton is underpowered if anything. Tons of champs with different styles can go close enough to even with him early game and either outscale him damage wise or just become unkillable compared to him. Renekton doesn't become truly tanky. He can get semi-tanky at the cost of having no damage late game - black cleaver alone even with full fervor stacks does meaningless damage late game. He can go 2-3 damage items and have respectable late game damage, but be way too squishy. His cd's are longer than other spellcaster bruisers like riven or he would probably scale better. He can be abused by forcing extended trades rather than letting him ff while his spells are on cd. Grag, dar, riven, kled, shen, rumble, etc. can all fare perfectly fine vs him as long as they don't go too ham and give him a huge opening. Renekton is actually fairly weak until he gets all 3 basic spells. Grag wins trades until renekton completes black cleaver if he plays it smart. He can interrupt renekton's slice-n-dice with his bodyslam, get a shield, percentage hp damage via drunken rage aa, and barrel off while renekton gets auto w auto q. Other ap bruisers/tanks like galio had/have similar combos. If anything, renekton should have either better scaling with damage (like same ratios but scaling off total ad instead of bonus ad) or gain some resistances when his ult is up. Because he scales way worse than every other champ with both base stats and with items. On top of that, his cd's are longer. And a smart opponent, as I have already said, can play safe and deny him real kill pressure 1v1. If renekton doesn't get kills in laning phase and start snowballing, many champs can easily overtake him by the 2 item mark. You shouldn't need a jungler to have kill pressure on someone who is so early-game focused as renekton considering how hard you fall off. I'm not saying you can never get solo kills - but they are remarkably harder to get 1v1 for renekton in the early game than they are for say a jax or fiora late game. If those champs get such easy wins 1v1 late game because they are hypercarry toplane duelists, then it would be logical that renekton have an equally easy time achieving that in the early game - being an early game "lane bully" duelist. But he doesn't have it half as easy to pick up 1v1 kills - this holds more true the higher you climb. On the flip side though, if you give renekton 2 kills in lane, he is probably the scariest champ in the game early game. This power level is more or less what it is like for a fiora or jax late game 1v1 regardless of if they have a kill lead or not. Renekton achieves with kills early game what other champs achieve late game with just items. So, renekton isn't what I would call balanced, but I doubt they will do anything to him in the near future. I could see shaving a small bit of power off his early game when he gets ahead - cuz he does become super oppressive; however, if they do that, they must also buff his scaling to be more comparable to say a darius or even a riven. They could do that, but I feel that most attempts to do so would be a painful process and end up making him lose his lane bully identity.

MysticFlameHaze1 votes

Renekton actually does have high scaling and his W i believe is total ad, darius and riven do not do well against renekton. his cooldowns are long yes but once he uses it as stated his W stun holds you long enough for him to chunk you and retreat back for a follow up later, there are hardly any tops with sustain like his so options for farming or staying in lane become very slim. His damage does not fall off as much as you think though, as you can see he is a pretty good pick right now, his win rate may not show it but i don't think he has been this popular in a while and champs don't suddenly pop up cause people just feel the urge to play him, it's cause they are one of the better options in the game at the moment.

I also don't think riot will do much to him either honestly the only thing which would probably affect any changes would be him being seen in pro play right now. I do see some of your points fair but then i have to disagree with other parts.

woodvsmurph2 votes

You are higher rank than me by a good margin. If you had to climb at all to get there, then you know the higher you climb, the more mechanically skilled players become. The better they are, the better riven becomes while renekton doesn't have nearly as much of a skill ceiling. Riven gets bullied early by renekton to be sure - provided both players are of equal skill; however, she can definitely survive without being punished too hard. And she can take over by 2-3 items no problem. She has more avenues to minimize damage while trading back effectively, and her much shorter cd's later into the game and stronger passive make her a decent pick vs renekton. Not saying she wins laning phase - the renekton obviously has to screw up hard or get camped for that.

His damage mid and late game depends largely on your build and enemy cc and exhaust use. If you only go black cleaver for your ad, his late game damage is laughable. If you build 2-3 decent damage or damage+tank items then his damage is respectable. If you go full ad glass cannon, then you can definitely reach 1-shot potential at the cost of no durability. So yes, I agree his damage dos not necessarily fall off. But he does have to make more sacrifices to either be tankier or to deal more damage.

We can see though even when he is meta, how other champs like gragas, j4, etc. actually beat him until he completes black cleaver. How they also outscale him. How he often needs either a good teamfight or a gank to get him an early kill if he is going to really get rolling; rarely does he just get a 1v1 kill unless the opponent messed up hard for pro play. Meanwhile champions like fiora get 1v1 kills just because they exist regardless of if their opponent messes up. We've also seen how stupidly squishy he can be despite building cleaver, titanic, into full tank. For how much more effort it requires by a renekton to get solo kills during his peak power period of the game compared to someone like fiora or jax during their peak period of the game he needs to scale better. I'd like to see some resistances added to his ult because it would make him tankier mid and late game without making him too strong early game compared to where he is now. Also being tied to his ult would make him have to use it strategically because he would still be as squishy as he is now when he doesn't have his ult up late game.

Just my thoughts.

MysticFlameHaze1 votes

This was well thought out and agreeable with a lot of what you said, I personally play riven and fiora, fiora I can see her holding against renekton, but I've played riven for a few years and can never see myself or others actually beat a renekton without her having been fed, even later on a bruiser build general beats a glass cannon build unless accommodated with huge lifesteal which is easily obtainable right now, so I will probably have to rethink my laning against him but as of right now I still believe his champ could use a slight nerf

invisiblecat11 votes

1.5 second point and click stun that deals damage and procs thunderlords is the most bs part of his kit Combine this with being able to heal, dash twice, and gain some bonus hp when low and you literally can not fight him unless you are up 3 kills There is no melee champion that counters him How is that supposed to be fair?

MysticFlameHaze1 votes

I dont really know, i dont like him but i needed to state my opinion to the boards in a way that doesn't seem like im just crying about him otherwise i'd just get auto downvoted without anyone giving any proper reasoning back.

invisiblecat11 votes

That's basically how boards works There is one popular opinion, and and if your thoughts doesn't fit that opinion exactly, you get mass downvoted I made a comment saying that the Cripple on Fiora's W barely made a difference, but got downvoted without anyone responding

KnightOfEloHell1 votes

Renek ez

Mordekiaser es numero uno

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nicoles Num1 Fan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iXamPNNt,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-06T20:51:38.550+0000)

I was looking at his kit and the way he is built seems alright, but then i thought about it some more, he's a juggernaut but has no spacing between his combos, he is supposed to be a good damage tanky character but yet when he wants to fight you he goes all in Empowered W's you for a 1.5 second stun Qs throws an auto in the dashes out immediately, then he just freely sustains off minions with his Q.

I honestly think if he were to be more balanced to play against he would have a better window to fight him instead of him just going in bursting you then running till the next combo is up once his E is off cooldown. The duration he is allowed to hold his stun up is a bit long imo as well, 7 seconds.

Wait since when was he a juggernaut.

MysticFlameHaze1 votes

well he isnt very mobile outside of his E, he builds HP damage items, and his ult gives him 750 HP.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nicoles Num1 Fan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iXamPNNt,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-07-06T21:02:20.361+0000)

well he isnt very mobile outside of his E, he builds HP damage items, and his ult gives him 750 HP.

Yeah I guess.

Shuyin1781 votes

Renekton is a lane bully, it's part of his job description to wreck your face in the lane phase. That being said, his damage does fall off over time and is heavily damaged by CC.

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