Buffing just for pro play?

MysticFlameHaze·Jul 14, 2017·52 votes·2,663 views

I don't think it's fair that riot wants to buff a champ just so that the pros will play them, it's like if one of their favourite champs wasn't being seen for a bit and were at a good spot so they buff them to push them into pro play because that champion who was fine is now a dominant pick.

Why buff ziggs? He destroys on a comp that can push easy along with rift herald due to his W excute on turrets and has great damage.

I play xerath and his power is definitely there, the only thing I see possible for a buff on him tbh is his Mana gained from passive.

I dislike ekko and still think he's op but he definitely isn't weak enough to deserve a buff.

TF I suppose he could use some help.

99 Comments

HalcyonDwellerJul 14, 201733 votes

I hate it when Pros start playing one of my mains, because I know that champion is going to be pick or ban for several weeks now because meta-sheeple are going to copy the pros, and I won't get to enjoy playing one of my favorite champions in peace.

MysticFlameHazeJul 14, 20176 votes

How I felt when they chose malz and Syndra, have been playing them for 4 years

The Leo CatJul 14, 201715 votes

{quoted}

I hate it when Pros start playing one of my mains, because I know that champion is going to be pick or ban for several weeks now because meta-sheeple are going to copy the pros, and I won't get to enjoy playing one of my favorite champions in peace.

Lets not forget that pros will often be the reason for nerfs or reworks that makes a champions winrate sink harder than the titanic.

bànJul 14, 201723 votes

Can we all just agree E-Sports was a mistake in general? Sure, it's entertaining but it has way to much influence on the game.

JunkοJul 14, 201716 votes

It def is not a mistake for Riot from a business standpoint. It helps the longevity of the game, is a massive advertisement for the game, can keep people playing with new strats, keeps people who are taking a break interested in the game, creates skins that make tons of money, etc.

SpoofghoulJul 14, 20174 votes

Maybe but when it has sooooo much influence on the balance and meta that it drives more people away then it keeps

then it's just bad

It Hertz When IPJul 14, 20179 votes

It doesn't. Much as I really hate to argue in favor of the balance cesspit known as eSports, it doesn't drive away nearly as many players as it brings in. Bear in mind that the boards are a tiny minority of LoL players.

Corrupt BlissJul 15, 20172 votes

League has stated several times, that League of Legends will be orienting more towards pro play / E Sports. For the last year or so we've seen League of Legends changing from a solo player game to a team sport, a strategy oriented duel of champions. It's literally a 'League of Legends' and watching plebs cry because champions they dislike are getting buffed is a little annoying. Play the game and enjoy it yourself. No matter where you play, who you play, what position you play, there will always be one champion who drives you nuts. Going insane? Ban the champion you dislike. Not that hard :P

A Vel Koz MainJul 15, 20171 votes

Except the game was team oriented before eSports, now it's about flashy plays, absurd damage from "one" champion. Instead of five, eSports essentially made this game a solo game. The whole team doesn't carry, one person carries. A whole team doesn't go for Baron, a single person can go for baron, same for dragon and with enough Life Steal, Herald too. I didn't hear about the "you didn't carry your team hard enough" until eSports showed up. It's a TEAM BASED game, that's how it should've stayed. Nobody watches eSports except the idiots who riot milks, and there's a lot of them. If everything is oriented towards pro play, that roster of 100+ Champions suddenly turns to 10, because only a handful of them will be good until the rest get absurd kits and buffs and you know what that does? It puts us in the same spot we were before eSports, but Riot wouldn't do that because if they did, it's less sales on skins for the current broken lineup of Champions that people actively pay money to get cosmetics on. Day after day, it's the same garbage and we all play it because we think Riot listens to what we think. News Flash: They don't because a MAJORITY OF THEIR PLAYERBASE that supports them financially is in between Normals-Gold and those players just keep handing money money money, what can I spend, what can I spend. Over to this company that doesn't play their own game.

Corrupt BlissJul 15, 20171 votes

You need to watch more E Sports.

You need to watch more streamers.

The majority of them (I can name a few if you'd like) have make S/O announcements because they are tired of how a solo player can no longer carry.

Yes, each player on the TEAM plays a huge part, the same in sports. A Football team doesn't tell it's linemen they don't matter, and a football team doesn't tell its QB that the entire game rests in their hands. It is a team effort for all players, and equally all players have the potential to make huge mistakes, or huge successes.

I don't know about you, but I see a huge variety in my games. I just ban the champion I don't want to see, and move on with my life. I don't understand why people cannot just be content and enjoy the game, instead of finding faults at every move and whining :|

A Vel Koz MainJul 17, 20171 votes

You should never be able to SOLO carry in a TEAM oriented game. Riot just has a bad thought process on what's balanced and what isn't. Half the problems stem from lifesteal and critical chance, as well as % damage and true damage. If you remove those mechanics the game would be fine, or at least tone them down, the turrets need buffed and minions need changed. There is no middle ground here, it's 2 different genres but you don't play in an MMO Raid group, run ahead of your entire party and die to the boss and say "wow, I can't solo this dungeon, why play?" The same excuse is here, you shouldn't be allowed to have any champion that can 1v3+. Fed? Sure. That's a different reasoning than being able to play Champions like Ekko, or Yasuo, I quit playing this game so I don't know who all is overpowered at the moment but I suspect it's the usual offenders with % damage or crit based life steal builds. Many people tend to forget that League of Legends is as such, a team based PvP game where everyone should cooperate and be able to pull out a win. Outplays happen as well, but you should never be able to win a game by just yourself that's completely opposite game design than intended.

StarGuardianWeebJul 15, 20173 votes

yes and no. I hate that riot (or more accurately the China company owning riot) wants to put so much emphasis on it that they stranglehold force rito to make/add/remove some dumb stuff in the game, but any game with a PVP aspect will have an esports community unless its bad. To wish league didnt have esports would basically be wishing it to be unplayable and horribly rated because thats the only way a game never gets shit like that.

BabyNaixJul 14, 20176 votes

Play teemo! I think he is the most fun champion and pros almost never play him any more.

HalcyonDwellerJul 14, 20173 votes

No. Teemo is the scum of the earth. His mushrooms are the most bullshit non-interactive Nuke in the game (you can't even see them coming to try to juke them). And his blind is basically a giant 'fuck you' to every character that needs to auto-attack to deal damage.

I generally avoid doing this sort of anti-fun BS to my opponents.

masterdomloJul 15, 20173 votes

Hey hey why all the hate just cause he is death reincarnated and can kill u from afar

HalcyonDwellerJul 15, 20171 votes

For proper counterplay, you should be able to see it coming, like you can with other champions. It's unfair that he can place mushrooms in random places and have you die randomly to them just because you were saving your sweeper to secure baron or dragon pits.

There's no counterplay to it, and the mushroom placement is strategic, but for the enemy team it is all luck as to whether or not they step on one. And it feels extremely shitty to find one randomly because there's nothing you can do about it.

masterdomloJul 16, 20171 votes

one word oracle. it may not be perfect but it gives a chance

HalcyonDwellerJul 16, 20171 votes

People save Oracle for sneaking past wards to gank, or for securing vision around objectives. It's practically never used just to ensure the path is clear between objectives.

Thus, it's BS to expect players to be able to properly counterplay against Teemo's Mushrooms with that Trinket.

Corrupt BlissJul 15, 20172 votes

Have you ever played Syndra? Annie? Ekko? Talon?

I could go on and on about champions that are crazy strong, ones who IMO needs nerfs, who IMO need VGUs, but it doesn't make it anymore true.

If everyone was playing for fun, we'd have a Garen-Gamemode. Spin around like tops and watch your opponents HP go down!

masterdomloJul 15, 20174 votes

Teemo rulz. He is my main and I find it super fun spreading terror with shrooms

ninjaroxasJul 15, 20171 votes

When tailyah was relased so many people thought she was weak. Then pro's started useing her

FairyfleurJul 15, 20171 votes

That was a while after some changes, though. She was fairly weak on release.

ninjaroxasJul 15, 20171 votes

She's only gotten 2 buffs and one of them were completely reverted. Techanlly 3 buffs but 1 of them was just a reverted nerf

FairyfleurJul 15, 20171 votes

Changing W so that you can cast it before E for a W+E combo made her a lot stronger.

ninjaroxasJul 15, 20171 votes

I've gotten worse with her since then and have meant people in games that have as well, so that's more of a player thing

FairyfleurJul 15, 20171 votes

Once dedicated players got used to it they could use her combo much quicker and start the chain from higher range.

ninjaroxasJul 15, 20172 votes

It's more like people who are able to use vector casting very well since her w is a very bad abilty to have vector cast on. Also She is my most dedicated champion, i play her still and im still good with her, just not as good now

ProfirixJul 15, 20172 votes

My Cho D:

DurzakaJul 15, 20173 votes

Imagine how Zac mains feel since the rework.

Havent had a chance to consistently play my main in forever because of this bullshit.

bànJul 14, 20179 votes

They've been doing it for awhile and it absolutely sucks because actual champs who need to get toned down, don't unless they're abused in pro play. I've been saying this for awhile but I always get downvoted to hell and ignored. I would suggest a patch just for the pros to play on but that might take too many resources. I wish Riot would chill with the E-Sports marketing and just try and fix on the current issues the game is facing.

LegendmakerGXJul 14, 20177 votes

LeeSin << LOL I still remember I think it was last year spring split no Lee sin was played at all FOR ONCE and actually it was fun watching new jungler play then we got to summer split where Lee sin actually got a buff on his ult if i recall and the main reason was "We haven't been seeing Lee sin in pro play lately" even though it was only for 1 split.

FairyDollJul 15, 20176 votes

I've been banning ekko for a while now.

Hard to believe he's getting buffed.

Too much in his kit.. way too much. Not to mention the get out of jail free card.

DunkinNoobsJul 14, 20175 votes

Ziggs is getting buffed?

MysticFlameHazeJul 14, 20176 votes

In the dev corner for gameplay meddler mentioned that artillery mages will get some small buffs and other champs to have a higher chance if being seen at world's this year

HalcyonDwellerJul 14, 20177 votes

Good god I hope not. Xerath and Ziggs are strong enough already, I should know, I main both of them. And they are fun enough just the way they are! They definitely don't need any buffs.

AirKingNeoJul 14, 20173 votes

Neither of the two are strong. I never see Ziggs or Xerath, especially Xerath, played in games I watch on a stream or play myself.

HalcyonDwellerJul 14, 20178 votes

Let me rephrase, they are strong enough.

I play them and they are plenty satisfying to use and can chunk enemies plenty hard already.

They aren't underpowered, and they aren't OP either. They don't need buffs because they are already balanced well enough against the rest of the roster.

AirKingNeoJul 14, 20172 votes

If Ziggs had to be made meta, a small would be nice.

Xerath is pretty underpowered right now in my opinion and many people's. Personally, a rework would be nice to give a better model, animations, and animation smoothness (maybe a way to combo spells?).

HalcyonDwellerJul 14, 20173 votes

In what way is Xerath underpowered? He is not lacking in damage, His skills are jukable but still reliable, and when used properly he's still terrifyingly chunky. His abilities already combo well, and his animations are clear and telling.

A visual update would be cool, but that doesn't really impact pro play, and there's no way Riot has resources to spare before Worlds on a VGU that's not even on the schedule yet.

The problem that I could see with buffing either of these champions is that people already know how to use them effectively the way that they are. Increasing their damage output would just make them overpowered. Other buffs to utility might be safe, but that's harder to get right and runs the biggest risk of being harder to balance after worlds is over. IMO it's not worth the risk since it's not necessary in the first place.

AirKingNeoJul 14, 20172 votes

I think his kit is too clunky and out witted too easily by mobility. They lack smoothness from one animation from another. This means his stun has to be long to compensate, but long stuns are very powerful, so his stun ability happens to be slow.

Violet FieldsJul 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Neither of the two are strong. I never see Ziggs or Xerath, especially Xerath, played in games I watch on a stream or play myself.

Ziggs is strong! Lol, if he rushes Ludens Echo he can kite any person trying to dive in on him. Having a pre-6 low kill pressure doesn't determine a champion strong, pushing turrets, getting objectives also comes into play, which Ziggs definitely has.

Xerath is also strong because unlike Varus's Q his lightning bolt isn't a skillshot protectile, it has a half second delay before it's actually casted, meaning they cannot dodge it if you just so happen to land it right on the center of them on the initial cast.

AirKingNeoJul 15, 20171 votes

See, now I know you don't know how to build because if you aren't building these tweo build paths you're not playing Ziggs right.

item 3802 -> item 3165

item 3802 -> item 3102

Violet FieldsJul 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

See, now I know you don't know how to build because if you aren't building these tweo build paths you're not playing Ziggs right.

->

->

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2549082651/209099586?tab=overview

Build path has absolutely nothing to do with playing him correctly. That's like saying because Jhin's attack speed to AD scaling was nerfed, building Rapidfire Cannon is playing him incorrectly.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2547968587/209099586?tab=overview

Take a look at this game, every Veigar I've seen in ranked always starts Morells when that's a terrible idea, people are going to gank you to deny you stacks, it doesn't matter that you build it when 20% cdr runes can easily replace the 15 AP in your runes that you just get stacks from. It's so much more gold efficient to start Rabadons so that way you're able to burst people down right after you finish it. The 20% cdr doesn't matter because if you placed your E in the wrong spot and you died, you did something wrong.

You have no idea how I build based on a page of text, instead of blowing your mouth off why don't you go on my op.gg and look at my match history first?

Edit: It looks like YOU don't know how to build because item 3802 doesn't build into item 3102 .

AirKingNeoJul 16, 20171 votes

Maybe you're an idiot because 1) I never said Lost Chapter built into Veil and 2) You buy Lost Chapter because the mana reset gives you infinite mana for the laning phase.

No, it is not efficient to start Deathcap. THAT'S WHY NO ONE RUSHS D-CAP AND RUSHES MORELLO. ITS THE BEST ITEM.

Violet FieldsJul 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Maybe you're an idiot because 1) I never said Lost Chapter built into Veil and 2) You buy Lost Chapter because the mana reset gives you infinite mana for the laning phase.

No, it is not efficient to start Deathcap. THAT'S WHY NO ONE RUSHS D-CAP AND RUSHES MORELLO. ITS THE BEST ITEM.

Yes you did, lol scroll up, everyone can see it.
Any person who isn't brain dead knows when to use their abilities instead of casting them expecting 100% of them to land and not having to worry about mana problems. By the time you finish any item other than mana, you don't even have mana problems anymore.

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20171 votes

I said build Lost then Veil because of the strong laning phase. I already explained this:

You buy Lost Chapter because the mana reset gives you infinite mana for the laning phase.

SleepcomaJul 14, 20175 votes

Gangplank doesn't need buffs at all. He's in a perfect spot right now and buffs will make him too strong.

AirKingNeoJul 14, 20173 votes

I think his Barrels should get a Crit ratio and not be able to (naturally) crit. So he can't just build Trinity Duskblade IE and random 20% chance to "oneshot".

SpoofghoulJul 14, 20173 votes

GP doesn't need any changes right now

if you really want to be an asshole with GP then you build item 3047 item 3078 item 3504 item 3151 item 3065 item 3053 And take the bond of stone mastery

And then your first cannon upgrade is the boost morale

All you have to do is afk push your lane, liandries works on barrels too, sow with that and steraks and triforce your barrel poke is really strong

Meanwhile it's impossible to fight in your ultimate because it burns your enemies to death, heals allies and gives them life drain and attack speed and move speed. It's ridculous how hard this buffs your allies but just the damage of the ult alone makes it impossible to fight inside it.

Oh and you can nom oranges for enormous heals so you never have to stop pushing

Nomad SolJul 14, 20175 votes

Esports is the worst thing to happen to this game. You know what happens when Xerath is "in meta"? He crowds out every other mage in the game because of his sheer range advantage. You know what's interesting about laning vs Ekko? Absolutely nothing. He Qs the wave. That's it. That's all he does from lvl 1 onwards. And then killing him post 6 is impossible because of his ult BUT HE'S GREAT IN ESPORTS CAUSE WOW SUCH MOBILITY MUCH FLASH.

TF needs help lmao? He's one of a handful of champions you can consistently climb to high elo with in every single season in any meta simply because of how much utility he has. The only reason he would need a buff right now is to force pros to pick him in competitive.