Let's Talk About Juggernaught Fiora Build Please

King Odin·Jan 28, 2016·81 votes·5,272 views

#THIS NEEDS TO BE NOTICED AS "BROKEN"

Simply way to much damage, sustain, and unbelievably tanky. Not to mention that she has tons of true damage .This makes juggernauts look like a joke.

133 Comments

Critmaster GarenJan 28, 201631 votes

just so you know.

riot considers juggernauts to be low mobility, massive health stacking, high sustained damage dealers with mostly melee range.

fioras q alone makes her too mobile to fall into that category.

the question is if bruiser fiora is actually a problem. due to very low base numbers on both her passive, ult and e, and large ad scaling, shes sacrificing quite some damage for extra survivability.

fiora isnt a champion with scalings geared for such builds. but i guess its better dealing some damage, than theoretically dealing loads of damage, but getting killed before you get it.

ErockandrollJan 28, 201636 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iOGuR4iM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-28T16:13:54.284+0000)

just so you know.

riot considers juggernauts to be low mobility, massive health stacking, high sustained damage dealers with mostly melee range.

fioras q alone makes her too mobile to fall into that category.

That would likely be the problem though. She can build Juggernaut and do the Juggernauts Job better.

As "The Grand Duelist" I would defend her %HP damage mechanic as a main source of dueling power. That said, if that mechanic allows her to ignore damage in favor of defensive items. Then her kit isn't working as a duelist, (but rather as a Juggernaut.) And the best way to try and fix that would be to nerf the base % on her damage and emphesise the AD scaling.

King OdinJan 28, 201615 votes

Perfectly phrased, thank you.

Spaceman5pffJan 28, 20167 votes

Another thing to look at in terms of dueling would be her parry. In swordfighting or combat of any kind, one must block IN A DIRECTION.

So why does Fiora get to block EVERYTHING in a 360 DEGREE CIRCLE. Especially since she only stuns / slows in a given direction. This is why Fiora is so excessively capable of 1v3's and such.

Make Fiora a duelist, not a supersoldier slaughter machine.

CoolHandJackJan 28, 20163 votes

oh man I always thought Fiora's Riposte did only block one direction

Spaceman5pffJan 31, 20161 votes

Yeah man it blocks in 360 degrees but stuns in one direction

Slamurai JackJan 28, 20164 votes

I'd argue that the AD bruiser items give enough AD to make Fiora's damage a serious threat while still being extremely hard to burst down. Whether or not this is a enough of a problem to justify changing her remains to be seen.

Spaceman5pffJan 28, 20163 votes

"Remains to be seen"

is nearly 100% pick/ban in professional play

Meanwhile RITO repeatedly nerfs Azir and Rek'sai / Gnangplank for being too powerful / popular in competitive

Slamurai JackJan 28, 20162 votes

They seem to be pretty inconsistent on which 100% pick/ban champions they nerf. They do nerf some of them, as you said. Others like Lulu and Alistar haven't been nerfed in quite a while and are still pretty much 100% p/b in competitive. Whether or not Fiora will be nerfed simply for competitive dominance remains to be seen.

Spaceman5pffJan 31, 20161 votes

Well then I want my FUCKING Sejuani buffs tyvm Assuming they don't care about pro balance, lets just give sej back her old damage numbers from pre-cinderhulk

NOTE: I loved watching sej in pro play, seeing awesome 5 man sej ults (or xmithie missing them) was WAY more exciting that all these stupid nidalee games we see now

Slamurai JackJan 31, 20161 votes

No. I'm tired of my champions getting buffs and then becoming FOTM. It's bad enough I've had to put up with that shit on Kayle, Shyvana, and Mundo. No more. Sejuani is already very quietly just below top tier and any buffs could easily make her pick or ban again. Please just no.

Spaceman5pffJan 31, 20161 votes

My point was that she was nerfed due to her shutting out everyone but gragas in the jungle in competitive. And Azir was nerfed for being the most dominant mid. And Ekko was nerfed for shutting out other tanky jg with his mobility and damage with a tank build. And GP was nerfed for his insane pick/ban rate

YET FIORA IS ALLOWED TO BE 100% PICK BAN WHILE CRAPPING ON LIKE EVERYONE BUT POPPY

My Waifu VanillaJan 28, 20163 votes

The thing is her base power and utility is very high to warrant such a build. It is vastly superior to survive and have the mobility to hit all 4 vitals on ult (DMP, tenacity and 30% CDR on this build makes that possible) than to try to two shot someone with full AD and die in the process. The other main reason this build works well is Fiora has 3 AA resets in this build to fully abuse Titanic Hydra to keep relevant damage throughout the game (Q, E, and Titanic Active all reset autos in a sense since while Q doesn't it does apply the on-hit effect with more damage than a traditional auto).

At least she is using artificial scaling in this build with Titanic and not real scaling with old Atma's because then we would have more of a problem since with this build her Passive doesn't do THAT much damage compared to a more AD centric build.

warpenguin555Jan 28, 201613 votes

Tank Fizz= toxic Tank Ekko=toxic Juggernaut Fiora= healthy riot logic

Spaceman5pffJan 28, 20162 votes

Add these to my above list of champions geting nerfed for being too dominant in competitive whilst fiora is allowed to exist in her current state

AudiomancyJan 28, 20166 votes

Well, Fiora doesn't have a heal like Ek-...oh, wait. I mean she doesn't have lots of mobilty, right? Oh. Uh... Fizz can become untargetable, unlike Fi-. God damnit.

ModAcademy KaynJan 28, 20162 votes

When has Riot said anything about Juggernaut Fiora?

JasiwelJan 28, 20166 votes

They need to raise her skill floor. Her skill ceiling is one of the highest in the game and she still scales absurdly well for someone who can win at all points in the game.

Her Q CD Reduction needs to be revisited. Hitting anything to proc a 3 second CD dash is crazy good. They should make it champions, large monsters, and siege minions.

Her W is extremely powerful. Without making any major changes (because her old W was pathetic without the passive), they could limit all damage and the CC effects to ONLY when she actually Riposte's something. When someone is fleeing and she Ws them for the MS/AS slows....that doesn't make a lot of sense and it feels horrid as the victim.

Her E is honestly fine. It's the typical AS/Crit steroid we have known for a while now. With the other competition top lane and the other nerfs I've suggested, it could stay as is otherwise she'd be underwhelming again.

These suggestions are all without nerfing her damage and limiting her opportunities. Or they could just nerf her damage and leave her opportunities as they are. Either one would help tone her down.

00110001Jan 28, 20165 votes

How the fuck do people get 6 items now?

most of my games are over at 30 mins...

For CarthageJan 28, 20165 votes

MasterYi "Oh you think she's broken...?"

Only Play DariusJan 28, 20163 votes

Master Yi isn't broken. He's shit tier and only useful against people who don't know what early game pressure is

For CarthageJan 28, 20162 votes

I would pretend to be surprised to see someone with such a low MMR spout off the usual LCS cop-outs that I would almost certainly find no evidence for in games you play in - not to mention that they're just wrong.

Yi's not shit tier. Nidalee is shit tier. So is Gragas. Yi's actually above average in terms of clear times and sustain in the jungle and can easily be picked as a counter against non-aggressive junglers. Even if picked against aggressive junglers, buffering Yi with a team fostering strong laning phases in order to stay at the ready in case help is needed makes him much more dangerous to screw with, and that's ignoring that his early game actually isn't as bad as people make it out to be (honestly his only weakness early is group action and hard CC).

After Devourer's built, a lot of people continue to build squishy with life steal items failing to realize that if they were to jump immediately to Titanic or Sterak's they'd have such a safety net under their belt that they'd win bouts against all but assassins (which will become negligible later with further bulk) and be able to live out entire fights they themselves initiated.

But again. Not to bronze shame you, but your claim to begin with sounds like a cop-out you took from a streamer and to end with is just completely unfounded and uninformed.

It Hertz When IPJan 29, 20161 votes

So after Devourer, how would YOU build Yi? I'd like to pick him back up as a Jungler but I'm hesitant to go glass cannon.

For CarthageJan 29, 20161 votes

It's not far off from this Fiora build.

Build challenger's smite with Devourer and look for free kills around the rift while power farming the rest of the time. Build mercury treads, not berzerker's greaves - you'll be going fighter Yi. From there, go Sterak's Gauge if your team is behind or Titanic Hydra if you're ahead - the reason for that is Titanic packs far more of a punch and massively improves your clear times while, if you're behind, Sterak's will offer you a pretty hefty shield that gives you more effective health than Titanic will, meaning you're more capable of making picks or dueling opponents that may otherwise kill you. The other thing is if you're behind, you won't have as much access to your jungle, meaning clear times aren't your primary concern at that point - just duel potential, the other reason why you go Sterak's over Titanic.

It's also good to note that Sterak's is much cheaper than Titanic, giving you a quicker spike in power when you really need it.

Next, if the enemy team is largely AD or about even, you build Deadman's Plate - if the enemy team is mostly AP or if they have a strong AP assassin capable of killing you, you build Maw. If you built Maw, then follow back up with Deadman's, and if you built Deadman's first, build Titanic afterward instead before building Maw. If the enemy has absolutely no AP (or their AP is negligible, such as a tank or support), build Death's Dance as your final item instead. Death's dance will delay a lot of the damage you're dealt, further increasing your bulkiness while still having great AD and lifesteal stats (with AD spellvamp to boot).

What this build does is it makes you capable of doing everything - legitimately everything. Deadman's offers a meaty slow to give you some actual CC while exasperating your movement speed increase, Maw gives you armor penetration, lifesteal and AS on passive activation, Titanic makes your health items turn into damage items as well, Sterak's gives you a sudden burst of health along with a power spike and size increase that effectively increases your range a wee bit (as range is measured from the tip of your hitbox to the tip of your opponent's hitbox, meaning taking up more space puts you suddenly closer to your opponent if that makes sense) and Devourer is... well, Devourer. All these items grant both defensive and offensive stats in actually pretty standard numbers when weighed against competing items. You turn into a 3k health, turbo-charged bulldozer, the best part being if your team is behind you can still play the "Yi" game and basically wait for them all to die before sprinting in on the enemy team who just blew all their CC and ults and slaughter them all, or if your team is ahead you've all the gear required to be your team's initiator - a lot of bulk with an ability that recovers health and reduces damage done to you while just being far faster than any champ in the game once you ult.

Spaceman5pffJan 31, 20161 votes

Exacerbating* "Deadman's offers a meaty slow to give you some actual CC while exasperating your movement speed increase"

While EXACERBATING your....

I don't normally point out errors of this sort but this was so painfully far off that I had to, for your own good.

For CarthageJan 31, 20161 votes

Exasperating also means to increase the intensity or violence of something, it's just a very old usage. In fact, exacerbate and exasperate are considered synonyms.

Welcome to the English language, where inflammable and flammable are synonyms. We have many similar sounding words that mean the same thing, and some words that should be opposites aren't.

Spaceman5pffJan 31, 20161 votes

ex·as·per·ate iɡˈzaspəˌrāt/ verb irritate intensely; infuriate. "this futile process exasperates prison officials" synonyms: infuriate, incense, anger, annoy, irritate, madden, enrage, antagonize, provoke, irk, vex, get on someone's nerves, ruffle someone's feathers, rub the wrong way;

K bud.

For CarthageJan 31, 20161 votes

2.: archaic: to make more grievous (severe)

In fact:

exacerbate roots: ex and acerbus

Word: acerbate \ˈa-sər-ˌbāt
verb 1.: irritate, exasperate

You're a moron. Please show yourself out.

Spaceman5pffFeb 2, 20161 votes

ok except: -ex·ac·er·bate iɡˈzasərˌbāt/ verb make (a problem, bad situation, or negative feeling) worse. "the forest fire was exacerbated by the lack of rain"

-ex·as·per·ate iɡˈzaspəˌrāt/ verb irritate intensely; infuriate. "this futile process exasperates prison officials"

You seem to miss the point that Exasperate deals with emotional sensation, whereas exacerbate deals with an amplification of nearly anything.

Simply sharing a root does NOT make two words the same.

EDIT: although the above example of flammable and inflammable is quite funny, it remains an outlier

For CarthageFeb 2, 20161 votes

No, but you also seem to continue to overlook that while I had originally said that it was an old definition, exasperate still has a precise and identical secondary definition as indicated by the "2.: archaic to make more grievous (severe)". It still means the same thing though it is not widely used in this sense.

I should also point out that you are using a shortened definition. In fact - and I know exactly where you're pulling this from, it's really not hard to look up the Merriam-Webster website - the full definition (marked in big, bold letters) is right goddamn below what you're looking at. You are literally only looking at the top of the page that loads. You realize you have a scrolling bar on the right side of the browser, right?

Also, just so you don't have to bother to look:

exacerbate transitive verb : to make more violent, bitter, or severe

And to disprove your final assertion that the two words in this same sense have specializations in usage:

bitter 1 a : being or inducing the one of the four basic taste sensations that is peculiarly acrid, astringent, or disagreeable and suggestive of an infusion of hops — compare salt, sour, sweet b : distasteful or distressing to the mind : galling <a bitter sense of shame>

2 : marked by intensity or severity: a. : accompanied by severe pain or suffering <a bitter death> b : being relentlessly determined : vehement <a bitter partisan> c : exhibiting intense animosity <bitter enemies> d (1) : harshly reproachful <bitter complaints> (2) : marked by cynicism and rancor <bitter contempt> e : intensely unpleasant especially in coldness or rawness <a bitter wind>

3 : expressive of severe pain, grief, or regret <bitter tears>

There is not a definition in "bitter" that does not relate to a sense of feeling besides the actual sense of taste. That's it. Taking the primary definition of set number 2 is incorrect because it is just a summation of the following definition group. You're just wrong, and the bloody dictionary backs me up - the two words can very easily mean the same thing nigh identically.

Spaceman5pffFeb 2, 20161 votes

Alright alright, you win. I officially concede my title of "Most likely to spend 2 hours on an internet fight instead of doing homework"

For CarthageFeb 2, 20161 votes

I shall change it to "Most likely to spend 2 hours on an internet fight instead of working on my side-projects".

Procrastination OP as fug.

Spaceman5pffFeb 2, 20161 votes

TFW I'm replying to this during my Introduction to Macroeconimics class.... ResidentSleeper

RalanrJan 28, 20164 votes

Oh hey, it's that build I hate on squishy champions.

It's shit like this that makes me wonder why Vayne doesn't build tanky.

King OdinJan 28, 201617 votes

Cringes inside Please dn't give vayne mains ideas item 3153 item 3022 item 3142 item 3053 item 3071 item 3111

I saw this build once, and alas it was super frustrating!

RalanrJan 28, 20163 votes

It's the hidden strength of %health based true damage.

I hate seeing tank Fiora. Hell I hate seeing Xin or Yi building Titanic!

Sahn UzalJan 28, 20166 votes

When sated still worked fine on Ranged champions, a Vayne main- friend of mine used this build item 3931 item 3153 item 3022 item 3742 item 3102 item 3006 It was pretty funny to see... :P summoner 31

Chaotic ReksJan 29, 20161 votes

i remember tank MasterYi when sated first came out

Sahn UzalJan 29, 20161 votes

This is still a item 3931 item 3748 item 3111 item 3742 item 3139 item 3053 build for MasterYi :P summoner 31

Chaotic ReksJan 29, 20162 votes

dear god...

Spaceman5pffJan 31, 20161 votes

I like MasterYi with item 3931 item 3124 item 3146 item 3748 item 3065 item 3047

NOTE: Gunblade causes you to heal based on Titanic procs as well :D

DecritJan 28, 20163 votes

I think that she is not that broken with these items, but instead is the usual "Fiora syndrome" from her kit prior rework.

Basically, she was so hard to play full offensive that you had to build her full tank to use her properly. I know well because i was in that case, always did shit with her until i started to build almost full tank.

Since she is a light fighter she scales well.with fight duration, so even without offensive items she can deal a good bit of damage. This is nothing competitive or optimal, but sometimes better adapts the player.

This works with yasuo and master yi too.

IntakiNineJan 28, 20163 votes

Actually pre-rework Fiora was best built as a full AD assassin. She would Q twice on a target squishy, auto attack once or twice, then ult and A) finish off her target and B) deal massive damage to their entire team (especially before her ult change that reduced its effectiveness in combination with Hydra).

The WhamboozlerJan 29, 20163 votes

Gee, it's almost like % health true damage is a terrible mechanic that punches game balance in the face.

Deus ImperatorJan 28, 20162 votes

Funny, when i use fiora, i always get to vs a renekton/volibear/teemo top and end up behind

Yes i try hitting vitals Yes i try resetting them to end on easy spots Yes i try to repose and counter accordingly

I must just fucking suck at fiora i guess, or i am playing her wrong and shouldn't go offensive until ravenous hydra

LithiumWednesdayJan 29, 20162 votes

Honestly this and its variations are the least fun to encounter. When Fiora builds like intended, you can blow her up. With this build, she still does enough damage to wreck face against anyone besides maybe Malphite , but she doesn't have to wait for peel.