Thankyou Riot... for destroying Zac

lFraay·May 4, 2017·51 votes·3,351 views

Zac is completely useless against any form of mobility champion or flash now. If he misses an ult or all enemies manage to jump out of his ult... he jumps out of the fight with no way back in until his E is off cooldown. His Q is absolutely useless in terms of damage (less than his basic attack (REALLY?) ) and time it takes to slap 2 enemy together. His E is useless as well now 1 second knock up to 0.5seconds and you give him a few hundred units to compensate wtf???

I actually hate you riot, for how you destroyed the only champion I have EVER enjoyed since he came out. He was in a good place this season and you completely ruin his kit. It's laughable how you guys managed to make this live.

68 Comments

SwiftKitten88May 4, 201715 votes

get in line... i have already been waiting 6 months on Nidalee jungle... 2.5 years on laning Nidalee .. and 1.5 years on RekSai ..

Ben SharpioMay 4, 201725 votes

nid had her time in the spotlight. She was allowed to be the most oppressive thing in this game for months on end. Also, reksai was too good in coordinated play

Amasa DelanoMay 5, 20172 votes

All Zac had was Meteos games. :/

SweedishGunnerMay 5, 20173 votes

I would be happy to never see Nidalee strong again.

KeevalroyMay 5, 20173 votes

I still have PTSD from season 3 Mid-alee's nuclear tipped tree trunk spam. Every time I see a spear I cringe when I know it's going to hit me. It doesn't matter if I know for a fact that this is the new Nid, it's early game, and she barely has AP, because I remember the old Nid vividly...and recoil in fear when I see those damn spears coming at my team.

SweedishGunnerMay 6, 20171 votes

When that shit was as wide as a super minion too.

HaloticMay 4, 201712 votes

believe me i am one of the most pissed off people to the point where i dont even play that much anymore. They basically disguised a huge nerf in the form of a "rework". They have thoroughly destroyed one of my favorite champions in league with this bs. I also believe maokai was a victim as well.

King GeffyMay 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

believe me i am one of the most pissed off people to the point where i dont even play that much anymore. They basically disguised a huge nerf in the form of a "rework". They have thoroughly destroyed one of my favorite champions in league with this bs. I also believe maokai was a victim as well.

This taught me as a future game designer, never pull shit like this ever

AtanchanMay 5, 20172 votes

That's a very ambiguous lesson learned, which could either be completely unlearned when you learn about schedules or result in a helluva lot of redundancy depending on what it is.

CriticalTrollMay 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Geffy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEBKpmjW,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-05-05T03:15:06.067+0000)

This taught me as a future game designer, never pull shit like this ever

AHAHAHHAHAHAH. im done. hurr durr the future game designer boys, he learned alot from this. lmao.

LyingOnLineMay 5, 20178 votes

They're going to be buffing him.

This kind of thing is to be expected from midseason patches.

Meowing MangoMay 4, 20177 votes

Umm, what? Zac has always been bad against mobile champs. You are supposed to pick Zac against comps that aren't as shifty for easier slingshot shenanigans. Zac has, and always will be, a niche pick. He isn't good every game.

Ben SharpioMay 4, 201712 votes

people want to play him into every matchup and wonder why it looks like he sucks lmao. That's like me playing sion into anivia and expecting to use every part of my kit effectively. (which won't happen)

ArakadiaMay 4, 20178 votes

Exactly. Riot doesn't want everything to work in every scenario very well. They want some tactical picks.

Big LincolnMay 4, 201716 votes

so pick him into immobile comps (LEL) where other tanks will still vastly outperform him

ecks dee

BakedLotionMay 5, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEBKpmjW,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-04T23:54:50.316+0000)

so pick him into immobile comps (LEL) where other tanks will still vastly outperform him

ecks dee

even if they're immobile they can just walk the fuck out lmfao. His ult should either be a strong as fuck slow, or make it a Grounded effect like cass. Without the slow, or a very weak one.

Tobias BracknerMay 5, 20173 votes

Not really. If you land it well you will catch them in the ult unless they burn moves to escape.

BakedLotionMay 5, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEBKpmjW,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-05T02:13:26.140+0000)

Not really. If you land it well you will catch them in the ult unless they burn moves to escape.

lol tell me how exactly you land it well when you're stationary and they're not.

Zac's ult is completely reliant on your allies ccing them, or your enemies being dumbasses

AnagsMay 5, 20178 votes

Who runs an immobile comp in this game?

MelledoneusMay 5, 20175 votes

An idiot. Or rather, 5 of them.

Skins ProjectMay 5, 20171 votes

Actually can you push the egg?

Legit question.

Meowing MangoMay 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Sion Bot l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEBKpmjW,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-05-04T23:44:41.247+0000)

people want to play him into every matchup and wonder why it looks like he sucks lmao. That's like me playing sion into anivia and expecting to use every part of my kit effectively. (which won't happen)

I find it odd how I get downvoted when you get upvoted for basically saying the same thing as me. XD

Oh, well. This has always been the case for Zac. He isn't good against every comp. Plain and simple.

Sad TyrantMay 5, 20172 votes

you got downvoted, because almost every champion played currently has either mobility or something to avoid or stop it.

you were also snide about it.

Zac can't carry unless he feeds his laners, he wasn't a niche pick, he was a generalist. now he is niche pick

and it depends on how the mobile champs are acting, he actually good at peel if you know how to play him

Michael702May 5, 20177 votes

I haven't played since 7.9 went live. Just reading the patch notes made me not want to play.

SqkergMay 5, 20175 votes

That's a really bad attitude, you should try something before you quit the game over it.

Tobias BracknerMay 5, 20176 votes

The Q is super super strong CC.

Flash is on a way longer cooldown than his ult.

Quit whining, he is way more engaging now.

GalihanMay 5, 20173 votes

As someone who earlier tonight faced a Zac support, holy crap the new Q is mean in a duo lane if he knows how to use it.

Tobias BracknerMay 5, 20172 votes

I love it for jung Zac too. You grab the enemy laner and then the minion wave.

ArakadiaMay 4, 20175 votes

I actually hate you riot, for how you destroyed the only champion I have EVER enjoyed since he came out.

Its not like Riot knew this. Everybody makes mistakes. The vast majority of your anger stems from numbers, which are fixable.

His ult is very strong but hard to use. Sorry that its not super reliable any more. But please calm down and give new Zac some time, and Riot some time.

RocketRelmMay 5, 20172 votes

The issue with his ultimate is that unreliable = worthless, by definition. To make him viable they'll have to buff the numbers to supreme amounts, but then his ultimate stomps lower levels because to be reasonable you basically have to assume he never gets to use it properly without a truckload of setup.

Meowing MangoMay 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The issue with his ultimate is that unreliable = worthless, by definition. To make him viable they'll have to buff the numbers to supreme amounts, but then his ultimate stomps lower levels because to be reasonable you basically have to assume he never gets to use it properly without a truckload of setup.

Or you combo him with other champs so you can set up great ultimates through team synergy and coordination?

OwynMay 5, 20174 votes

If he misses an ult or all enemies manage to jump out of his ult... he jumps out of the fight with no way back in

but... you can set the jump direction after ult to go INTO the fight and not OUT, no? [zombie-brand-mindblown]

RocketRelmMay 5, 20173 votes

The issue is that you're usually snap-casting it the microsecond that it's finished charging. If an enemy flashes 0.01 seconds before without you noticing, you just derped out of the fight uselessly. And this will unavoidably happen, because of the way the E-R combo works.

RocketRelmMay 5, 20174 votes

Tbh, as a Mastery 7 Zac, I've played 1 aram game with the New Zac, and... can I have Old Zac plz? This isn't something numbers will fix. His Q is so clunky, and his ultimate went from a general fairly high skill based 'where do I position and when', including the precision flash during iterative bounces, to a gimmick that is degenerate or useless, with no in-between.

SqkergMay 5, 20172 votes

You really think you can definitively draw these conclusions after one game? In ARAM no less?

RocketRelmMay 5, 20173 votes

The clunkiness I felt was one data point. There's data that has him tanking 12+% win rate overnight, and not really faring better after the days passed. Going over the numbers shows that he has less CC, less soak, and less damage than before. He's worse in every conceivable way than Old Zac.

SqkergMay 6, 20171 votes

All I'm saying is that maybe before you call for a revert you should play more than one game on the champ.

NilokMay 5, 20174 votes

This is literally how many old Malzahar players feel.

BasedNerdMay 5, 20173 votes

The Q should go through minions and small monsters and either increase your AA range for a certain amount of time or allow for a double cast. The Ult change should be reverted, it's honestly one of the most useless ults I've ever seen.

GalihanMay 5, 20172 votes

This Q is actually very powerful in botlane if you do manage to hit it correctly.

Rogue of TimeMay 5, 20172 votes

I actually don't play that often, I'm more of a "filthy casual" with my wife, her sister, and my brother-in-law. That being said Zac was one of my first champions (purchase #2 or #3 for 6300 IP champs, I believe) and I absolutely loved him. Back then, his kit was terrible. No cooldown generation on his W, short range on his E... not much different, but enough to hurt him as a CC tank. Still, I played him and made him work and loved him. Now with this new kit... it's just complete and utter trash.

I really hope they revert the rework. I already wrote a long post complaining about it in another topic, but... yeah. He lacks identity and just sucks all around now.

Jew StomperMay 5, 20171 votes

Yep. He was my first 6300 ip champion. Bought him a little bit after his release nerfs, when no one played him.

Jew StomperMay 5, 20172 votes

My thoughts:

Q: Pros: Fun, more cc, buffed range, third arm Cons: Waaaay weaker waveclear, less reliable (depending on the situation), less damage

If anything would happen to it, since the Q is affected by blinds (fought a Teemo toplane), maybe apply basic attack damage too. Other options include: increased max q basic attack range, cd reduction. larger aoe when slamming depending on the targets.

R: Pros: Can easily ult carries into tower for a Yasuo (whom hopefully didn't feed), CC IMMUNITY Cons: Way less damage, less chaos, less healing

If anything, let me out.

Make it 1 second. I wouldn't even mind the range being reduced to pre-rework numbers.

ThugWalrusMay 5, 20172 votes

I'd recommend waiting on the harsh judgments and calls for reverting the rework. Zac underwent hefty changes and everyone needs time to adjust to them. So weird that people expect to pick up what is essentially a new champion and be instantly 100% (or more) effective with him than they were before. I remember when people were complaining that Taric and Gangplank were "ruined" and now they are obviously more effective than their old selves but people needed time to adjust to the kits.

HethaleanMay 4, 20171 votes

I'm not sure how that is any different than before this update.

YOUGOTKILLEDBROMay 4, 20173 votes

nerfed the shit out of his E.

SqkergMay 5, 20171 votes

His e? They kept that the same.

SpaghettiVaseMay 5, 20173 votes

No they didn't they nerfed it's knock up time and nerfed it's damage, now his R is doing 60% less of the damage it used to and it requires a combo that's no longer there.

SqkergMay 6, 20171 votes

Ah, was not aware of that change.

HigeMay 6, 20171 votes

Of course you enjoyed Zac before, he was broken as all hell, of course that ANY kind of balancing will feel like a nerf because nerfing him was the only way of achieving any kind of balance

Try to adapt your playstyle to new Zac, there's no point in playing him like you would his old incarnation

If missing his ult is awful, don't miss it, don't rush it, plan for it carefully, don't throw it just for the damage, simple as that

Also, if missing your ult is such a problem, don't hold it down, release early and you get 1 bounce like you would on the old ult...