I think Riot forgot that AP is suposed to be a cheaper stat than AD

PhaseDives··154 votes·6,209 views

AD items are completely Outclassing AP items right now.. IE better than Rabadon by a mile Trinity force and duskblade are so much better than LichBane By a mile.

Its really lame as a AP champion when your best bet is rush either Magic Pen Items only and try snowball with base dmg vs the AD opponent to get item advantage or go for a ton of CDR and hope to kite them.

The best item with Ap right now is Gunblade in its own division and theres too many wasted stats that most AP champions cant build it and also cant afford to place this item in their inventory..

I remember when you could easily have 2 times more AP than AD Late game With Rabadon and a full AP build but now since rabadon is sooooo expensive its soo hard to build and you need too much items to do damage late game with all the retarded ad items they added and buffed over the time..

Im not talking about ad champs like zed or jhin who have more ad than i have ap late game im talking about pretty much every AD champions who have more AD than i have AP at 5 items if i go for a build like item 3152 item 3100 item 3157 item 3135 item 3102 And the people who are going to tell me (But you have UTILITY with those items) . So does item 3156 item 3147 item 3814 item 3812

You even Rush IE on a ton of ADCs now even when its suposed to be an item you get a bit later to make it more cost efficient with its passive..

Do you know anybody who goes Rabadon First item? NO because its dog shit but at the same time you NEED that item late game

Right now on Ekko i go a build like item 3152 item 3100 item 3089 I Get rabadon 3rd almost all of my games despite mr or not because i know its gonna be too hard to build that item past 3 items.. item 3135 then last item is something with heavy cdr because you also NEED to Cap Cdr late game on a ap champion item 3115 item 3165

Riot balance team must probably not play many AP champions because its just lame to be at 4 items without rabadon and trying to build it and even when you have a largerod in your inventory you need 2550 gold to build it.... thats 2 more largerod...

Remember the TSM VS C9 Spring Final?

Jensen was playing Ekko late game he had no rabadon at 4 items he was building it 5th item he was sitting with a largerod but had 2k+ gold still he couldnt buy the rabadon because the item is way too fuking expensive so he brought a ludens since it was the most expensive ap item he could buy. He spent almost 2k gold for 40 more ap and a discount duskblade passive resulting in him not having enough AP late game for his spells to work properly at that stage so his shield was way too low than he trought it would be and he got insta killed trough his shield.

I really hope Riot looks into AP Items after all the change they are doing with MR Buffs AD items Buffs Nerfing everything Ability Power Related I mean stuff like cassio are building tank items now like comon wtf is that?

All im saying is that they should probably increase the AP value only on some items and make Rabadon a bit cheaper to compete with all the ad items we have right now.

Tell me what you think.

265 Comments

A Bad Nasus60 votes

I think it needs to be redone like all the ap items they "tweaked". Hell I remember when item 3157 was a 120 ap item...

Divewing43 votes

Back when DFG was in the game (Press F to pay respects)

500000000000000028 votes

summoner 4

OyddAWqJ5r44 votes

You mean summoner 12/summoner 11/summoner 3/summoner 6/summoner 7/summoner 14

D is for Flash get it right.

Glory ln Death5 votes

That's not how the song goes, though...

F is for Flash so you can make big plays, D is for Dumb Ignite! G is for ping spamming all over your team! Out here on Summoner's Rift!

Nielarken7 votes

D is for dodge F is for fight.

I suck at Jhin13 votes

ALT+F4 is for dodge, F is flash.

Get it right noobs.

Elikain6 votes

And Zhonya's was nerfed (and made cheaper) because it was meant to be an defensive AP purchase, not a core item that mages would rush after Morello's. Which is what the AP item pass accomplished, to differentiate between items and use cases between champions instead of every mage just buying 3 of the same items over and over again because they are the most stat efficient and an unbeatable combination.

Aimléss26 votes

You can't nerf powerful items item 3157 item 3116 and not buff garbage items item 3285 then say it's balance. Rylais was overnerfed, and Ludens is suuuuch a bad item. Some may argue that it does AOE damage, but most of the time when it procs, it's hitting 2 tanks and one squishy, and those tanks aren't gonna feel that weak shit. Plus Riot also buffed MR across the board on squishies. That's like nerf after nerf after nerf on AP overall, without one SINGLE buff. And I don't recall AP being that OP to begin with.

Elikain4 votes

And what are you accomplishing by nerfing the big items and then buffing the "weak" items? You're nerfing the overperformers so that every other item can compete with them. You're not trying to replace one top item with the next top item (Nerfing Zhonya's and then for example, buffing Luden's to push them to the top Zhonya's used to be on).

That's not how proper balance is done. Only if Luden's was underperforming it would be good to think of some buffs but if it was simply overshadowed by bigger and more stat efficient items (per gold invested), then it's reasonable only to nerf and level the playing field for everyone. Yes, AP was overperforming in the past and that's why Riot acted. Mages were literally winning of Morello's and Athene's. Every mage had either this to build or wasn't suited for these purchases and therefore, was never being picked as a result.

WalkingInACircle4 votes

Ludens is underperforming. Siege mages are the only thing I think its even worth considering on, or as a 6th item replacing boots.

Thilmer2 votes

{quoted}

Ludens is underperforming. Siege mages are the only thing I think its even worth considering on, or as a 6th item replacing boots.

You know what is fun?

When they announce it, Luddens was going to replace Death Fire Grasp as "the other 120 AP ítem", with Raddabon and Zhonya. But Luddens got nerfed inmediately after its release. And I don't even need to mention how many times has Zhonya been nerfed...

Fear the Kayn26 votes

I think mages need to have more build variety for sure.

Wimbledofy3 votes

Mages have plenty of build variety, they just aren't good options for them. All of the options have lowered ap "because of utility"

Cosmic Warper8 votes

{quoted}

Mages have plenty of build variety, they just aren't good options for them. All of the options have lowered ap "because of utility"

if there aren't good options for them then they don't have build variety....

PrinceOfStorms26 votes

Part of the problem is that AD items have a ton of extra stuff baked into them. IE gets more crit damage. Maw gets the hexdrinker passive. All of the lethality items have additional stuff on them. Essence Reaver gives Crit -> CDR. GA is an AD item now for whatever reason (AD champions needed less defensive itemization, not more).

The most that AP champions have is the hextech items that were nerfed so hard that only a few champions buy them in the first place, and Zhonyas. Zhonyas doesn't really give that much stats anymore either.

If Riot's not going to nerf the busted AD itemization, the least they can do is buff AP itemization until it's at least as broken. Like making deathcap just increase all healing and magic damage you deal by 35%.

Over Innsmouth22 votes

Laughs in Vladimir

Tempist6 votes

There are still very efficient and powerful AP items, it's just that alot of them happen to be niche or situational pickups.

item 3165 and item 3151 are two items which are very common pickups and also extremely gold efficient. In point of fact, I think Morello's is actually a little too powerful and could be tweaked down a bit.

Moving on, item 3115 , item 3040 , and item 3027 are all incredibly efficient and powerful items - if your champion actually builds them. And in the case of item 3040 , if they can afford to build a item 3070 .

Most of the complaints regarding AP itemization seem to be centered around item 3089 , item 3157 , and item 3285 being a bit underwhelming currently. I'm even inclined to agree. If Riot ends up nerfing item 3165 , I would be perfectly fine seeing those three items getting buffed.

Sraeg20134 votes

In point of fact, I think Morello's is actually a little too powerful and could be tweaked down a bit.

The joke with Morello is that it has everything a mage would require (except m.pen), but at the same time Rito removed the only alternative while simultaneously putting the passive of that item onto Morello.

Elikain1 votes

Athene's was moved to be an AP oriented support item as mana regen and raw mana were differentiated as stats for mages and supports. Athene's and Morello's before all of this were the same item basically. The only one getting bought was the one who had better stats. That's why Riot gave every AP item different thing and moved some extras for supports.

Athene's isn't bad. If you're a shielding mid laner, your damage serves as a potential heal for allies. But this is rather limited as you'd rather do more damage than heal someone and there are no AP supports that shield or heal that deal damage to benefit from Athene's in that way. Only Soraka or Janna come to mind and they are babysitting supports that are absolutely devoted to supporting an ally. Sona might be there somewhere (and Karma), possibly Lulu but considering how every other genuine support item is better due to Windspeaker's and Censer, pure AP supports like Brand can't even use its passive.

Sraeg20133 votes

Morello and Athene were different both in stats, their scope and role.

Saying they were the same item would be like saying Bloodthirster and Blade of the Ruined King are basically the same item.

PopcornBunni22 votes

The problem comes from how AP works as a stat compared to AD.

Building AD has a 1:1 ratio with a game element all physical damage dealers use -- their auto attacks. AP however is gated 100% of the time by the AP ratios of champion abilities.

With AD, it's a simple question to answer: How much gold is adding 10 damage to your auto attacks worth? (It's 350 gold)

How much gold is adding 20 damage to your skillshot worth? (There isn't an answer)

Unless every single champion that builds AP has at least one skill with 100% AP scaling, it is always going to be a nightmare to itemize while physical damagers get reliable, grokkable AD forever.

The closest thing in the game to making AP a consistent stat is item 3115, which still ends up making AP a laughable contribution compared to AD.

A Bad Nasus2 votes

It still beats having full ad teams tho.

PopcornBunni9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Everlasting Tilt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iB5xuK0c,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-08-15T04:54:03.343+0000)

It still beats having full ad teams tho.

It depends on the AP ratios. If you can consistently deal damage with a spell that has 63% or more AP scaling, AP provides more damage for the gold investment generally.

Inting Pillow7 votes

Corki?

RavenMagus50 votes

Full AD teams are actually viable. They definitely have their drawbacks - you're likely better off with mixed damage - but they CAN work.

Meanwhile full AP teams are such trash as to be completely unthinkable.

Personally I think that's rather unfair, but I guess that's simply my opinion.

YumaS2Astral2 votes

Full AD teams are viable if your opponent's team don't have tanks.

Votable Jester1 votes

Corki boom done full ad team (doesn't matter that he does magic damage, he's an ad champ).

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

What matters is the type of damage you do, not what you build or what your abilities scale with.

Cause by your logic, I can just run Kennen AD. Boom - full AP team, dosent matter if hes an AP champ.

Votable Jester5 votes

No, you just used the opposite of my logic.

Corki builds primarily AD items, but does magic damage. That makes him still an ad champion, even though he does primarily magic damage.

This is a discussion of AD vs AP, not physical damage vs magic damage. There's a huge difference.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

Also, there is no such thing as full AP teams. There is always at least the ADC doing physical damage. Unless your ADC is Corki (which, even though still AD, does 80% magic damage), which is the only possible situation where you don't have to build armor at all. As a tank, you will almost always have to dedicate half of your item slots to armor just to counter the ADC, and that actually makes "full AP" teams (comps with 4 magic damage champions and the ADC) viable. Meanwhile, full AD teams are trash against well made team compositions that have enough tanks. But are viable against squishies, because against them it doesn't matter what you choose, they will die anyway.

RavenMagus2 votes

{quoted}

Also, there is no such thing as full AP teams.

Yes, that is actually my point, thank you. :)

You can run full AD teamcomps fairly well. They struggle a little in the midgame when tanks have a few items, but they can either dominate and steamroll early on or outscale later on. Teamcomps with 2 ADCs + 3 tanks are becoming increasingly more common as well.

But you can't run a full AP team comp. Your team MUST have an ADC, no matter what, or you pretty much lose. Even if the enemy team is a bunch of squishies, there are more (and better) options for squishies to build magic resist than armor.

There's only one role that every team is required to have, and that's ADC.

An Undead brat7 votes

When AD champions' abilities don't deal damage, this might be true. Until then...

FilDaFunk16 votes

I remember I used to get ~600AP easily. Now, I see the enemy Assassin get 400AD while I only have 300AP.

AirKingNeo4 votes

and now you get double the CDR.

Which actually deals more damage.

FilDaFunk2 votes

{quoted}

and now you get double the CDR.

Which actually deals more damage.

Which requires 2 rotations, back then, mages had buuuuuurst.

AirKingNeo2 votes

More counterplay and more interactive for everyone.

OHminus3 votes

More counterplay and more interactive for everyone

Twitch/Jinx/Draven/Vayne autos and crits

... well fuck me then.

I suck at Jhin8 votes

Except for mages that get oneshot in one rotation by AD's, right?

Or ADC's since they just rightclick them without caring, right?

Squidward Dab18 votes

I remember when 800 AP was easy, now I'm crying every time I wanna buy deathcap cuz everyone just stacks mr so I'm forced to go void staff instead, or they all have ad so I buy an expensive ass item with a pathetic 70 AP. Plus I have to go sorc boots otherwise my damage is basically tickling the enemies while AD champs can build defensively and still deal damage

Skorch8 votes

TLDR, but...

Where does anything say that AP is supposed to be cheaper than AD?

I know tank stats are cheaper than damage, but i dont think AD being more expensive than AP is said anywhere.

An Undead brat7 votes

Pretty logical since APs don't gain damage on AAs with it (most of them) but ADs gain damage to their abilities too.

Skorch3 votes

At almost ALWAYS highly reduced Ratios. As well as AP items just give more, but ADs grant other effects like Crit and AS.

So again i ask... Where does it say that AP is supposed to be cheaper than AD?

sutora32 votes

just play ad or tank ekko

HeadHonchkrow12 votes

tank ekko

Hast thou no honor, good sir?

sutora31 votes

theeself hast honor , theeself does but not touched ekko ever in theeself lifetime

Anidan2 votes

thee? Aren't you referring yourself? If so, that would be essentially just be the same as modern English pronouns, and if you're referring to yourself you also wouldn't use 'hast' because that was used as the second-person singular present from of 'have,' and it's not necessary to refer to yourself in the second-person in this context, because in this context you can't really use second-person pronouns to address yourself due to the fact that you're the subject of the sentence, and also the speaker. Subject-Verb agreement and all that.

"I have honor; I have not but touched ekko ever in mine* own lifetime." would be more correct even if you're trying to mimic older Anglo-Saxon grammatical rules for sake of consistency with HeadHonchkrow.

*'mine' and 'thine' were used to prevent a vowel ending from leading into the second word that is led by a vowel sound because it sounded better, probably due to French influence on the English language, but I'm only guessing on that part.

For future reference: thou, thee, thyself, thy, and thine are always second-person pronouns.

sutora31 votes

yes I was referring to myself and thank you I didnt know that theeself is second person pronoun http://imgur.com/gallery/IW8simF

Anidan2 votes

No problem :) I have to find a way to apply that trivia somehow, and acting like a pedant (and teaching people about that trivia) online is the most practical way to do so, realistically.

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