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Bot lane it's not the problem. It's a consequence of a even bigger problem.

Siegfriedx1·4/16/2018, 7:21:47 PM·51 votes·12,718 views

If supports received super OP defensive items to nullify damage for your whole team through the seasons, was because riot introduced enough damage in the game to easily annihilated a whole team without effort. If support new runes are full of boring, ridiculous, binding and anti-fun free defensive status it's also because runes randomly increased the damage of everyone else by a whole fucking lot for no freaking reason at all. Runes not only have a fucking high base damage but also scale through the game.

Well fuck this hate on supports.

Ask a traditional support this season to not build any item that give shields, heals or increase shields and heals and see what happens. Spoiler alert: prepare yourself to hardest stomp of your life. You are doomed to buy that shit. It's not an option. We are hostages of that shit balance where riot increase damage to the sky and then we need to create new forms every season to nullify damage too.

I want to support through my champion kit. I want my champion kit reworked, buffed, nerfed, whatever to make sure that my core mission is complete without item shenanigans but i can't. I'm hostage of the insane fucking damage everyone have.

Check this small and innocent rune: press the attack. It give a fucking flat bonus damage and increase all damages by 12%.

12 FUCKING %

I used to do 3 millions backflips to get the mastery that used to increase our damage by 3%. Fuck this.

Damage is so insanely high that riot forced the support role to build all sort of shit to try to even things out. If building a support item was a question of decision making and interesting gameplay, I would not mind. are a good example of a support items I enjoy and they are either not too oppressive or are just not a raw stick of necessary power.

Please, rework soraka again and all supports too, and fuck items and fuck the damage and fuck runes.

49 Comments

2Charmnot2Charm4/16/2018, 7:54:40 PM33 votes

Meanwhile mages don't have an actual damage rune unless they have a spamable slow in their kit.

xJLx MCHammer4/16/2018, 9:36:46 PM17 votes

No OP you totally missed the issue at hand.

Riot made several changes to this game that over time creates this problem. It mostly stemmed from two problems.

Support was not popular role
The game length needed to be shortened

They addressed this in many ways. Some of those changes indirectly or directly affected the bot lane. For example

Passive gold, exp in duo lane was increased. Gold for assist kills was increased and decreased for solo kills. Catch up experience was increase and allowed duo lanes to keep up in exp to solo laners
They shortened games by increasing base damages and introducing % to far wider range of champions
Increase wave clear for all lanes
First turret blood was introduced
Cooldown were lowered to increase players fighting more often over objectives
Baron was buffed
Burst from anti ADC champions were lowered to add more counterplay
ADC gold cost of their items during tank rework was lowered. Every item at that time except BOTRK was buffed
Supports items got revamped like Ardent. This gave them much better synergy with ADC than with any other role/class
Passive gold for lane was increased so that champions can reach late game fasters
Wards were changed to be limited and now you don’t even have to buy a sight stone as a support

Now, all of these changes impacted every lane. The problem is, riot succeeded in make game shorter and support more popular. They result is, top laners and Mid lane, who once excelled in early and mid game no longer have that HUGE window. Back in s5 and s6, each lane phase was roughly 15-20 minutes. Mid game was 15-25 minutes. Now, you can lose a tower by 9-10 minutes. Your window of opportunity has been lowered. Supports and especially ADC used to be weak early and mid game. Now, these two classes reach mid-late game spikes so much faster. Once you reach 20-25 minutes, it is effectively late game for many ADC champions. By then, most ADCs have their core items (3-4) items and their supports have the items to cement the power of ADC.

Now, the bot lane can snow ball even earlier. This was something that top and mid lanes used to depend one. Supports would be healthier if Riot actually introduced items which benefits other classes more directly. Instead they introduce items like Ardent Censor which works with ADCs 10X than any other role. Noticed how good Nuni became when Riot gave him a buff which was really good on AP champions. That was just one ability and champion. Imagine introducing items that directly affect non ADC.

TLDR: Riot nerfed the length of early and mid game, now bot lane can survive and dictate how the flows much earlier.

Big Lincoln4/16/2018, 7:59:28 PM12 votes

this isn't true at all, supports have been getting pampered by riot since season 6. stop deflecting, support being as broken as it is is what makes bot lane snowball so stupidly hard atm

Wolfalisk3184/17/2018, 12:09:52 AM12 votes

As a Support main who prefers to play healing Champions I find myself being outlaned by almost everything and I feel like my items are just helping me be more impactful than a minion at any stage of the game, not actually giving me any sense of power to support my team.

Bot Lane is immediately lost to the Mid player who didn't get their role and so just decided to take their mage Bot to "Support"; they buy a warding item and then just build their usual and end up being as much as a danger to my team as their Mid, meanwhile I'm still a cannon minion.

VoraciousX4/17/2018, 7:25:37 AM8 votes

The problem is these supports aren't PAYING for their shield and heal power. They're building friggin MR, armor, and HP while having 600 HP shields. They don't have to use them on themselves because they have resistances, meaning you can't abuse their weakness, making them choose to shield themselves, and killing the carry, or making them use the shield on the carry, and killing them. Assassins and the like got more damage because it's harder to kill. The runes came after the overpowered shields and heals. It's the reaction, not the cause. Problem is the ADCs get better at doing what they're supposed to do for free whether they attack a minion or a champion(kiting), while also getting 600 HP shields on support spells and 2000 HP shields on locket for the whole team.

Make supports build squishy and you can have your stupid 600 HP shields, at least I'll be able to kill someone.

Also you're complaining about Press the Attack, but that's a rune used by ADCs mostly(except they use the rune that gives them free kiting instead because they don't need that 12% damage).

Also, for Athene's not being oppressive, it may not be but you friggin STOLE THAT ITEM FROM MID LANERS. And now it's not even the same item anymore. Now the only MR we get is from the item with the worst passive EVER item 3102 .

AquariusGine4/16/2018, 9:44:45 PM6 votes

The game length did NOT need to be shortened. Just because people got bored of LCS games being a few minutes too long doesn't justify destroying the foundation that built it.

Spank the Fox4/17/2018, 5:04:59 AM5 votes

Enchanters are 100% the problem. There’s a massive problem when you can win games by sitting on Ancient Coin, get more gold than Spelltheif line offers for ZERO INTERACTION and max your shield ability (Lulu & Janna S Tier)

I’d probably stop bothering playing ADC if I wasn’t playing solo queue.

Dandara4/16/2018, 11:51:35 PM3 votes

As a support main, I agree, especially when playing tanks and being able to build Face of the Mountain and Sightstone to get the juicy +500 HP and have a shield to toss to my ADC whenever a one-shot assassin like Talon or Zed hopped on them. While my strife is not so much with the runes, I_do_ find myself missing the huge HP boost I would get from finishing my late laning phase items and coming out of it as Leona without feeling too squishy. And making item 3905 and item 2065 their own separate items just takes up space that would be used for a CW or you know.

Literally anything else

TL;DR: Bring back old support items, prevent other roles from buying them for an easy lane.

Harden Stepback4/17/2018, 5:39:51 AM3 votes

Lets get supports back to season 3 power level! Most balanced imo.

ExternalLink4/17/2018, 12:12:35 PM2 votes

I made a thread titled 'Runes Reforged is Garbage and creates more problems than it can ever solve' about a week ago; https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FYIHMWTn-runes-reforged-is-garbage-and-creates-more-problems-than-it-can-ever-solve?show=nested While I admit that the OP post read a bit like bad click bait, to my surprise a Rioter responded and said that it needed to 'be reframed before a Rioter or another member could even begin to approach the topic', which isn't exactly true, you can still tackle the point of something even if you find the format dislikeable or obnoxious. But, I obliged and reframed it anyways, and surprise surprise, he never replied again. I also can't help but shake the suspicion that some of the posters in that thread might have been plants. Someone literally hit me with 'show me the statistics' as the first reply. H-how am I meant to do that when Riot literally doesn't release such data?

TTv Koddok4/17/2018, 6:06:53 AM1 votes

Riot needs to take runes and masteries back to season 2-3. Back when you could choose a little bit of penetration, a little bit of damage, a little bit of attack speed, a little bit of lifesteal, a little bit of damage % on lower hp targets, or basically the same thing but in reverse for defenses. Then supports had support only items to sustain them in lane, give them vision, give mana regen, get back to lane faster, etc.

Right now it's just 'Cram as many numbers as I can into one box and then throw it at them'. It's boring. The counterplay is basically 'Have bigger numbers than them'. Why do you think that LCS players don't even fight any more in games? Because all it takes is one death to give the enemy team so many more stats than you have and then you physically cannot win. :/

HekaPimp4/17/2018, 12:58:27 AM1 votes

Dont forget about the bottom 3 runes in precision giving more than 5% increased damage

no to toxic4/17/2018, 4:22:04 PM1 votes

Buff Urgot and everything will be good again

Glory974/17/2018, 4:23:59 PM1 votes

No actually the disaster started with riot reworking adcs into absolute grabage early, but beyond sanity lategame, called adc-class update. Then they figured out, that adcs being completly uselss until min 30 doesn't work (what a surprise). So the just slashed down prices of crit items. And suddenly adcs were they only thing that matters and buffs to everything else were needed. So they added the stealth-oneshot duskblade...