Ok, I can see it on physical abilities...... But his passive procing it just makes it oppressive. All he has to do is auto W and he gets a full stack of Black Cleaver on anyone. Seeing as his main role is Top, this has a lot of tanks. Permanent 25% armor reduction along with the armor ignore........ Why not just remove its interaction with his bleed?
l Dárius l4 votesthis
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both have physical damage DoT's. Both stack cleaver very easy. One is meta, one is not.
and darius was designed to work this way. it is not oppressive. the only champs who are oppressive with black cleaver are meta adc's. there is no melee champion in the game that is abusing black cleaver. black cleaver is working fine for its intended users. darius is designed to be a tank killer. if you couldnt figure it out just by looking at his kit i dont even know what to say.
Silly Neeko1 votesTank buster is fine, bleeds that reduce armor each tick..... Not so much. ADCs that can abuse it are not as tanky as a Darius, along with two heavy slows, one of which is a pull. Who can heal based on his missing hp and can build almost full tank and still be able to beat almost anyone except a really fed and mobile adc....... Which even then he still can simply by doing a E auto W auto Q ulti.
I already know he is a tank buster. BUT how would you like it if Teemos E proced Liandries and Rylais? Or Fizz's Dot? Pretty sure my point is proven right there. Not sure if his bleed procs Thunderlords also or not, but if it can proc Black Cleaver..... Who knows? Mabey it can.
Escheton3 votes and both have physical damage DoT's. Both stack cleaver very easy. One is meta, one is not.
SirLapse2 votesMost of what Darius values is the movement speed bonus to land Q's. The armor shred doesn't matter very much if we're talking about Darius' early power, because he's doing most of his damage off of passive without armor shred to begin with.
On the teamfight aspect, seeing as he's not a fast AA'er and has never been, the ability to get Black Cleaver up that high isn't that strange.
We also see things like Fiora, Jax, Tryndamere, Renekton, Teemo, etc. in top lane who are not tanks. Poppy used to go pretty even with him when her numbers were ridiculous.
Silly Neeko1 votesIn a team fight he can proc his entire 5 stacks with E, auto, W, auto, Q on blade. He does not need to have fast auto attacks because he can stack 5 cleavers there with just that.
He also has a roughly..... What..... 3 second CD on his Q? This means on an enemy team he can pretty much ignore 43.75% of the entire teams armor. This is including his bleed being quite damaging all on its own..... But he will also be able to redo the bleed simply by Qing again. This is if any of the team is alive after this......
In early game, yes, the speed boost to stick to the target is what he goes for most. Same with the CD. However, his passive will progressively be more damaging as it goes by reducing the armor of the victim. This is very annoying and is often times why people view his bleed as "so strong". When you can ignore 43.75% of the armor just from E passive and Black Cleaver, not including any lethality......... That is almost like doing true damage early game.
Those champions (apart from Tryndamere, sometimes teemo, and jax.....) pretty much get stomped after lvl 6. Same with Yi. I wont get into my personal vendetta vs Yi here...... But yes i find he is a little too strong as well.
SirLapse1 votesIn a team fight he can proc his entire 5 stacks with E, auto, W, auto, Q on blade. He does not need to have fast auto attacks because he can stack 5 cleavers there with just that.
And he gets kited to hell and back on any normal occasion. He only starts working once he gets within range and as a melee without gap closers, Black Cleaver and killing a unit along with Ghost/Flash are typically his tools to overcome that.
He also has a roughly..... What..... 3 second CD on his Q? This means on an enemy team he can pretty much ignore 43.75% of the entire teams armor. This is including his bleed being quite damaging all on its own..... But he will also be able to redo the bleed simply by Qing again. This is if any of the team is alive after this......
Let's not assume Darius is unstoppable, I've beaten them into the dirt many times before. If you can't, learn how to lane. He is one of the easiest to punish in the game because he doesn't attack fast, and ain't nobody carrying 3 sec CD abilities in early game unless it's got an internal CD somewhere.
In early game, yes, the speed boost to stick to the target is what he goes for most. Same with the CD. However, his passive will progressively be more damaging as it goes by reducing the armor of the victim. This is very annoying and is often times why people view his bleed as "so strong". When you can ignore 43.75% of the armor just from E passive and Black Cleaver, not including any lethality......... That is almost like doing true damage early game.
I don't see how damage can be "annoying" but okay. Let's also count the fact that he does not get all of that armor ignore all at once (especially considering the obvious mistake in your argument by saying early game), does not affect his true damage of ulti which is the main way he makes picks, and he has one of the most abusable lane phases in the entire game. If he didn't have all those tools, he'd be Garen essentially where he'd be useless the moment anyone knows how to fight him.
Those champions (apart from Tryndamere, sometimes teemo, and jax.....) pretty much get stomped after lvl 6. Same with Yi. I wont get into my personal vendetta vs Yi here...... But yes i find he is a little too strong as well.
Look at my Teemo match history. Any Darius that has done well has camped my other lanes and due to me not pinging danger/MIA (sometimes people don't listen anyway), he gets kills after I've smashed him in lane. There's no way a Darius has high play potential against things like Renekton, Teemo, and especially Jayce who dumpsters him even if you're only half-decent at the champion. The Darius' jungler better be camping me early or the matchup will be favorable for over half of the games he plays against things I use.
I think people are just bad and don't know how to play against Darius. Means nothing that he does damage if he has ways of being beaten that people employ more and more the higher elo you climb. Nasus and other melees are the ones who have difficult trading, and that's also due to people not knowing how to trade with a Darius.
SpaghettiVase1 votesI was just thinking about this yesterday and while I can't think of any other DoT abilities that deal physical damage except for maybe 
's E. In my opinion Physical DoT shouldn't proc BC as it makes it way too easy to get the full stacks.
YokoNomi1 votesI was just thinking about this yesterday and while I can't think of any other DoT abilities that deal physical damage except for maybe
There's a slight difference. While I can understand the stress with illaoi, hers actually requires her to keep on her e to actually do anything with it. Each impact from the e is done by her, not by a standalone dot. Darius just has to auto you and the game takes care of it for you.
AFilthyCaitMain1 votesThe nerf made it a debatable item on Illaoi. No one is 100% sure if its the absolute best item on her anymore. Although a couple people and i just agree its not core on her, but suggested.
Illaoi has to hit the spirit btw for it to deal damage.
YokoNomi1 votesThe nerf made it a debatable item on Illaoi. No one is 100% sure if its the absolute best item on her anymore. Although a couple people and i just agree its not core on her, but suggested.
Illaoi has to hit the spirit btw for it to deal damage.
I've read that it's better as a secondary or third item for the build now, which I've experimented with and agree upon. Death's Dance is the new item to rush with her, and I've yet to regret doing so. The damage and life steal help a lot, and the fact that I typically go a tank rune page instead of the recommended damage helps make for my initial lack of impact.
Aimléss1 votesI'm saying, I don't understand why Riot lets champions super synergize with items. Lucian and BOTRK is another example. If they just nerfed this synergy they wouldn't have to nerf anything else on the champion, but they just won't do it.
KONO RUBICK DA1 voteswether it stacks or not wouldn't change anything
he would still need 6 seconds to apply it
Silly Neeko1 votesExcept for each tick of the passive is stronger than the last simply because the previous reduced the armor again. This also means the Cleaver will not wear off as the DOT is going..... Mixing with the armor ignore of his E...... That is roughly a 43.75% of armor just completely ignored. This does not include lethality from runes etc.
Yes he would need 6 seconds to apply it still, but in one situation you can get out of the fight and not be dealing with black cleaver for the ENTIRE duration + some for the cleaver. The other is the current interaction.
Sp33d Zer01 votesIt's physical damage. The bleed is physical. They would have to make darius have a magic damage bleed again.
Silly Neeko1 votesThen Teemo E passive should proc Liandries Torment with each DOT hit. Same with Rylais. The bleed is fine, just that it stacks 5 black cleavers however is not. The use of physical damage abilities and auto attacks is not my issue..... It is simply the DOT passive.
Sp33d Zer01 votesI'm not sure why Teemo's doesn't, it would make sense. I think it may be because it is based off an auto, and not a spell.
Brand passive makes it longer though, so that may just be speculation.
Silly Neeko1 votesIt is based on an auto but it is an auto enhancement that deals its own damage over time. The day they give Teemo that interaction is when i know Teemo has finally taken over the rest of the world not just the doom bots.
rtbf697746141 votesAlright get ready for a long one, Darius is not oppressive for 1, literally just go Riven, Jayce, FIORA, Teemo, Quinn, Pantheon, Kennen, (if you're good) Yasuo. Darius isn't op in the slightest compared to other toplanes. He has no mobility and after cleaver nerf triforce is the new go-to. Like i honestly dont understand how people can complain about darius when fiora just pressing R and not using any abilities gets a free 2k true dmg for 4 autos, all the way up to 6, and then heals a shitton.
Silly Neeko1 votesI am not saying he can not be beat, I am not saying that Darius himself is oppressive, i am saying the bleed procing the Black Cleaver is. Darius himself is annoying, beatable but annoying.