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Thresh should be melee, he could be better in so many ways!!!

Boatwhistle··3 votes·2,235 views

Thresh being ranged really makes me feel sour as a thresh main. Right now you wanna build coin into moby boots into knights vow... problems- Thresh doesn't want coin, he wants relic and you know it. More tankiness means thresh can feel better about not exploding cause you took a hook to get a pick. Thresh gets a fraction the benefit of knights vow EVEN though he is a tank by all merits and has a kit to facilitate going in and doing some mass crowd control.

If thresh were melee he would get the following buffs with no other changes... Relic route- Twice as much healing from from consuming procs, execute dmg, better lane pushing power. Knights Vow- twice as much healing from ally dmg and twice as much protection to allies.

Not good enough for you??? Well consider that going from ranged to melee warrants other changes for thresh. Thresh has one of the lowest if not the lowest base ad/ad scaling in the game. They did this to him because of his e passive, they dont want him pokeing adcs any more harshly then he already does. However if he cant just walk up and single auto people at range then what would be the reason to keep his ad low huh? The same goes for his attack speed, he has some of the worst in the game again do to the passive only its the on hit dmg this time. Melee thresh could again have a better base value and better scaleing. Over all the autos on thresh could be made so much better just from being made melee. This also would allow him to have better base tankiness stats both in regard to his base amor and his magic resist scaleing.

I know what you are thinking... but then you miss out on utilizing his e passive effectively without needing to all in. Well what they should do is put his e passive on his q. That's way you don't need to chose between leveling them up for one or the other. His q is also a far more effective zoning tool then his e passive can ever be. To be able to utilize it effectively at range what they ought to do is make it so rather then being on hit with autos it should instead be added onto DEATH SENTANCE dmg. Yeah you lose the on hit but overall the combo dmg will happen faster cause it happens on q rather then on needing to do his slow motion auto. To make this big dmg not broken riot can make its flat charge longer(like 15-20 seconds) which isn't that big a deal since it no longer applies to his autos. However to make up for this a new addition would be nice where if he reactivates q to dash to a target then the charge time is nonexistent and ready for the next q with minimum cd currently being 3 seconds. Not really that broken considering all a player must do is dodge or be helped by their team. This also means thresh's infinite scaling would be more relevant relative to that of nasus and veigar. This is also a benefit cause you're thresh, your autos don't matter for your team. You are a support, you focus on using your abilities to help your team.
Laslty the ability is called DEATH SENTANCE… don't you want most of your dmg on DEATH SENTANCE? Take it out of the box ult dmg if you gotta, I play thresh for DEATH SENTANCE.

10 Comments

Teridax682 votes

Ever since Thresh was released, I've always questioned why he needed to be ranged. His souls mechanic lets him become pretty durable, like any other tank support, his kit is full of incredibly potent CC and utility, and on top of that he also has a surprising amount of damage. He has no real difficulty reaching his targets, because he has a hook, and a dash on top of that in case he doesn't reel his opponents in close enough (his instant displacement on E makes things even easier). For sure, simply reducing his range right now and giving him no compensation would screw him over, but that argument could apply to literally any champion if they received a flat reduction to a stat after being balanced around said stat.

In the end, the only real reason Thresh is ranged is because of the poke passive on his E, a passive that is itself eminently questionable due to the sheer amount of mechanics Thresh already has at his disposal. Thresh already has plenty of things to do even when he's not poking his opponent, and later in the game he will usually engage with his hook anyway, so having ranged autoattacks only really benefits him during the laning phase. Incidentally, this is a phase where Thresh currently suffers, because while he'd really like to make good use of Relic Shield, his status as a ranged champion means he can't properly execute minions or sustain himself. Ancient Coin isn't really a great fit on Thresh, so he's stuck with a really awkward laning phase just for the sake of a superfluous gameplay effect that is only truly meant to be useful during that point in time. Reducing Thresh's basic attack range, making him a melee champion, and buffing his MR accordingly (and the rest of his stats as needed) could bring him in line with other tank supports, while also making his item choices less awkward.

Boatwhistle2 votes

Wish I was that articulate with my sentences, but yeah you get it.

Do you agree with my idea to have the e passive apply its dmg on death sentence with a larger charge time and reset if q is reactivated? I feel without the passive that surprising dmg would only be existent on his ult. That's why I suggested it, in order to not take away from the dmg it provide for thresh. I like the passive on his e but I have great disdain for the way he is set up as I explained. Its also best later in the game to have maxed q then w for play making so by the time you get around to e the dmg bonus kinda becomes irrelevant to the amount of dmg and tankiness that has developed.

Teridax681 votes

I think if you want to have the E damage apply on Death Sentence, you may as well remove the E passive altogether and just buff Death Sentence's damage: the ability already has an innate cooldown, such that it will already only be able to apply its effects in periodic bursts. Having Death Sentence's damage scale directly with souls, or simply have a greater AP ratio, could therefore fuse the two effects together in a way that would allow Thresh to still poke without having to resort to ranged autoattacks, or without needing to autoattack at all.

Personally, though, I'm simply not a fan of the E passive to begin with, and I'd rather remove it altogether, with appropriate compensation given to Thresh's AD. In fact, I'd perhaps even be in favor of flipping Thresh's soul gains so that he gets AD, rather than AP, from his souls. While I think it's fine for Thresh's combo to flow perfectly into itself, and punish players for getting caught by a hook by having him also trap them in a prison, I'm less okay with him dealing burst damage in equally quick sequence, which is why I think his damage should come from him being able to hit consistently hard with basic attacks, rather than from his abilities. This could also help a problem of his where he feels like he has nothing to do after blowing his combo, since right now he does his thing, lands an E-enhanced auto, and is then basically a sitting duck until either his allies join in, or his Q comes off cooldown: with powerful basic attacks on each swing, Thresh could feel much better about staying in a fight, even if his initial combo wouldn't take out as much of his target's health.

Boatwhistle1 votes

I would think it better for thresh to keep his on hit from total number of souls of that were the case then as the number of souls the way he is gives more dmg then the .75 scaling he gets on his ap that would be flipped. On top of that champions tend to build and scale less MR meaning the dmg is more effective. I am a fan of giving his ad the .75 rather then ap however as aside from his ult his ratios are garbage so he cant really amount that scaling to anything significant quickly enough. Keeping the on hit and giving him .75 ad per soul would be really nice for keeping him occupied in team fights. 100 souls on hit magic dmg for 75 bonus ad on top of better scaling ad would make his autos worth while through out the game after blowing combos.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

If he should count as melee, his attack range should be reduced to 250-300.

Boatwhistle1 votes

yeah that's what I am saying man. He shouldn't only be counted as melee he SHOULD be melee as in a 250 attack range. Was not suggesting he keep the range and be considered melee... that would be ridiculous and break several items.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

yeah that's what I am saying man. He shouldn't only be counted as melee he SHOULD be melee as in a 250 attack range. Was not suggesting he keep the range and be considered melee... that would be ridiculous and break several items.

Yeah, you weren't suggesting him to keep the range, but you also weren't suggesting to reduce it.

Flameglow1 votes

The only downside of him being ranged is the rather suboptimal synergie with relic shield. But it's definetly possible to get used to it. You can ping your relic shield and ping onto the minion you want and your adc will most likely let you take it.

On the other hand, if he was made melee with the changes you suggested, it would change a lot of his playstyle. The poke a good thresh can do, by hitting the enemy adc when he goes for last-hits is significant. To nerf his range and put the aa-damage onto his q, would make him much more of a binary feast or famine type champion. His all-in during between 4-9 would be a lot stronger. But He would be a lot weaker when he can't get this all in.

He would prefer is he stays a range champion and continues to have this unique kit of a somewhat ranged poke + cc all-in champ. If he was made melee he would be a lot more similar to blitzcrank or leona. I don't think this uniqueness should be taken away from him.

Boatwhistle1 votes

Well I am not saying thresh being ranged makes him unusable, he makes do. He just could make better use of relic through out the game, particularly early. He defiantly can get more out of knights vow by simple numbers alone. Also consider you are forced to chose between having hooks and lantern for mid game or having e passive damage in the early. Personally I go q into w as using that e poke becomes worthless after lane phase. Yes it makes him unique, but simply being unique should not be seen as better. Overall his kit contradicts what he wants to do through the game and its all do to him being ranged for what... e max first to get barely beneficial trades? Even then... not having many souls, much tankiness, or building AD like a troll makes it easy for the enemy adc and support to win those trades.

theChibiTina1 votes

Rakan also fall under this tragic labeling of range when should be melee because they could benefit so much from it. Then they could be the true tank supports they should be.

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