Can't Be Killed, Still Deal Tons Of Damage...

Wolfram Oxford·Jun 25, 2016·3 votes·359 views

Why do we have champions as strong as Darius and Irelia? Both can build one or no damage items, still deal loads of damage, and survive long fights. We saw Ekko as a problem, not because he could just do these same things, but because he was intended to work differently. So if there is a champion that is intended to be unkillable, but still deal insane amounts of damage, why don't more people complain? Seriously, nobody should be able to go full tank Darius and still be a threat, or one damage item Irelia and still 1v1 anyone. This is just one of the reasons why I hate the balance of the game.

12 Comments

Darkslayer85Jun 25, 20162 votes

http://pngimg.com/upload/tank_PNG1320.png

CrazFight Jun 25, 20162 votes

Its called "tank-meta". Imo its one of the most un fun meta's, but meh its probably what all season 6 is gonna be.

DehitayJun 25, 20161 votes

Giving Darius such a potent heal was a horrible addition in my opinion. Irelia on the other hand doesn't really seem all that different from Jax to me threat wise

Wolfram OxfordJun 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Giving Darius such a potent heal was a horrible addition in my opinion. Irelia on the other hand doesn't really seem all that different from Jax to me threat wise

Well I would say that both are pretty strong, probably too strong. The thing with Jax though is that you take some time to scale up, and then you build damage, not tank.

rtbf202329206Jun 25, 20161 votes

Volibear

Wolfram OxfordJun 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mischief Maker,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hqEVEBV0,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-06-25T11:57:21.113+0000)

Garen

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hqEVEBV0,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-06-25T11:03:45.691+0000)

Why do we have champions as strong as Darius and Irelia? Both can build one or no damage items, still deal loads of damage, and survive long fights. We saw Ekko as a problem, not because he could just do these same things, but because he was intended to work differently. So if there is a champion that is intended to be unkillable, but still deal insane amounts of damage, why don't more people complain? Seriously, nobody should be able to go full tank Darius and still be a threat, or one damage item Irelia and still 1v1 anyone. This is just one of the reasons why I hate the balance of the game.

"y u no complain, I don't like it so it must be wrong" ~Wolfram Oxford

offense and defense don't mean much without enough utility. These champs don't just win any fight, they win any fight because you don't adapt and you pick and play not taking them into consideration.

Wolfram OxfordJun 25, 20161 votes

"I don't know how to make any decent point. I will just say that survivability and damage don't mean anything in an instance where you need to take down an enemy champion. Its all about utility, since I know what I am talking about and in high elo you don't need damage to kill things or health to survive" ~CerealBoxOfDoom

You sound like an idiot saying that you don't need offensive and defensive capabilities to win fights. Tanks have both and thats what make them strong. You obviously don't see a problem with these champions, probably cause you abuse them, but if you say that their offensive and defensive capabilities aren't a problem, then you are saying utility is? Sure, they have utility, but when you look at both teams and see that the tanks who are soaking the most damage have more damage than most of their team including carries, shouldn't you see a problem? No class deserves to be overloaded to the point of having every beneficial aspect in a champion you could ask for. They simply need to be toned down a lot for them to have any healthy existence.

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hqEVEBV0,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-06-25T14:24:39.049+0000)

"I don't know how to make any decent point. I will just say that survivability and damage don't mean anything in an instance where you need to take down an enemy champion. Its all about utility, since I know what I am talking about and in high elo you don't need damage to kill things or health to survive" ~CerealBoxOfDoom

I didn't say this but I am 90% correct here. Its not all about utility and I'm not high ELO but you do not need a lot of damage to kill things nor much health to survive if you have strategy and utility.

I make a fine point.

You sound like an idiot saying that you don't need offensive and defensive capabilities to win fights.

only to narrow minded players

Tanks have both and thats what make them strong.

false, what makes tanks strong is extreme utility though I doubt you are defining a tank the same way

You obviously don't see a problem with these champions, probably cause you abuse them, but if you say that their offensive and defensive capabilities aren't a problem, then you are saying utility is?

Correct, I don't have a problem with them or at least not for the petty reasons you do. Some do have utility issues. The two examples you gave aren't really good examples at all though. Not for utility. In irelia's case its just an overloaded kit that can go in too many directions. But its not just the fact she can take a hit and give one. That's simple and fucking basic as hell. There's not really that big a deal with that until you add in how versatile her seemingly rigid on paper kit is.

Sure, they have utility, but when you look at both teams and see that the tanks who are soaking the most damage have more damage than most of their team including carries, shouldn't you see a problem? No class deserves to be overloaded to the point of having every beneficial aspect in a champion you could ask for. They simply need to be toned down a lot for them to have any healthy existence.

but then I ask myself how they ended up like this. Its because of ranged vs melee. You simply cannot have a real healthy balance between the two unless one is just overloaded with goodies, utility, and stats.

things like Irelia exist because things like Ashe and Anivia exist.

Monsters aren't born, theyre made. Careful what you wish for etcetc.

Wolfram OxfordJun 25, 20161 votes

Irelia exists because of ranged champions such as Ashe and Anivia... That makes no sense, especially since Irelia is given a lot more tools to carry a game than either champion. What is holding her back so much that they need to give her so much power? Melee auto attack range, but wait, she also has high mobility and survivability just to make up for her "disadvantage". Making a melee champion extremely overpowered and giving them tools to cope with their one weakness isn't balancing. That would be like giving all ADCs a spell that gives them death immunity for 10+ seconds because they are too squishy. If you think about it thats a horrible idea, but hey, it makes up for their weakness...Just like many melee champions have things that make up for their weakness. But at the end of the day I guess you could argue, squishy carries have teams to make up for their weakness. In that case we have two different types of champions. Ones that rely on their teams and ones that don't. I guess if we looked at the higher echelon of cohesive teams and high elo players the balance between the two is somewhat more evened out. But still a large disparity between what the two types can do. Now most of the community isn't high elo. We are players who don't know how to properly work with our teams, meaning the squishy team reliant champions are a lot weaker compared to the independent melee counterparts. I simply want to point that out, and hopefully get some balance based around that part.