League of Noobs: Summoner Spells

Fizz Wukong·Jan 11, 2016·1 votes·894 views

I've tried a lot of moba games. DotA, DotA2, Heroes of the Storm, Smite, League of Legends, Heroes of Newerth, Bloodline Champions and Infinite Crisis and this is the only one that let's noobs get away with a lot of mistakes and never really mastering their champion's kit with use of summoner spells.

I saw a Zed getting absolutely destroyed by a Diana! Complete pwnage to the extreme maximum. Score was still 0/0/0 but she was 2 levels ahead of him forcing him to recall and farming on the backside of his caster minions. Next thing I know, this Zed hits level 6 with 15%-20% health uses on Diana about 95% health at level 7 (she was using ) and melts her!

After witnessing that, I think I'm going to step away from this game. It's very fun, but I refuse to be dominating my lane, only to be countered by summoner spells.

19 Comments

TeemoJenkinsJan 11, 20163 votes

By your logic, it wasn't Zed's kit, build, or play that dictated the winning trade, but his summoner spells? So Lulu could've won the trade because it's the spells, not the play that wins. Your logic is missing... logic.

VerxintJan 11, 20161 votes

Confirming exhaust + ignite Soraka is the master of all 1v1s.

VerxintJan 11, 20162 votes

I don't know how that fight went down, but Diana should either have already killed the flashless Zed at level 6 or should at least be able to avoid being 100-0.

Besides, if she has TP she hardly loses anything for it and now Zed has no kill potential for like 3 minutes.

Summoner spells are part of the game, they're something you use with your champion. The fact that zed has 2 combat summoners and Diana has none means he will win 1v1, but has little roam presence and is missing some mobility.

The odds are youre not playing at a very high MMR, and you shouldn't take what you see as always representative of the full game

Fizz WukongJan 11, 20161 votes

I just started playing about a week ago, but I spectate matches and study the champions (using the wiki and this website) more than I play matches. The roster is a lot to take in all at once. I chose my name based off champion biography, Fizz seems like somebody I could be friends with irl and I've always loved Wukong way before LoL or Smite was introduced. LoL's bio of Wukong doesn't really do him justice, honestly, but that's ok.

I'm not sure what level the match I was spectating was, it's the matches that appear on the main page of the client on the bottom, right-hand corner. The summoner spell feature disgusts me. There are certain kits in all mobas that are meant to dominate/counter specific kits but they can use summoner spells to overcome that, giving them no real weakness.

I noticed champs like Darius can't get close to you, oh well, just take summoner 4 summoner 3 , now you have this hulking axe warrior glued to you with no chance of hell to escape. Summoner spells break this game. So I doubt I'll be playing until RIOT fixes it.

HailFire DragonJan 11, 20161 votes

i have never seen a darius take exhaust. and for good reason. yes he gots to go in on you but the cooldown is so long that that is hardly something you should count on as a strategy. besides taking exhaust means you give up the other summoner spells like the mobility of teleport just for a beter 1 V1 something darius already excells with. its like complaining an immobile champ whose major weakness is his lack of mobility taking flash. the cooldown of exhaust is long enough for you to capitalize and punish the darius useing your ignite or more importantly an extra teamate to gank him since he is usually very slow.

VerxintJan 11, 20162 votes

Doesn't darius' opponent have summoners too? Why didn't he use them?

Also if a champ uses two 3 min CDS reasonably well they deserve something. Again, where are your summoners? You have them too. What did you do for the 5 minutes when darius had no flash?

Summoners are also an opportunity cost. If you take ignite you don't get TP or exhaust. If you take two combat summoners you don't get flash. If you take flash and ghost you trade laning and fighting power for safety and kiting.

You're basically complaining that people can do things with part of the game mechanics, which is a silly complaint.

DrNovaJan 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fizz Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hpGTkar3,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-01-11T16:17:03.493+0000)

I just started playing about a week ago, but I spectate matches and study the champions (using the wiki and this website) more than I play matches. The roster is a lot to take in all at once. I chose my name based off champion biography, Fizz seems like somebody I could be friends with irl and I've always loved Wukong way before LoL or Smite was introduced. LoL's bio of Wukong doesn't really do him justice, honestly, but that's ok.

I'm not sure what level the match I was spectating was, it's the matches that appear on the main page of the client on the bottom, right-hand corner. The summoner spell feature disgusts me. There are certain kits in all mobas that are meant to dominate/counter specific kits but they can use summoner spells to overcome that, giving them no real weakness.

I noticed champs like can't get close to you, oh well, just take , now you have this hulking axe warrior glued to you with no chance of hell to escape. Summoner spells break this game. So I doubt I'll be playing until RIOT fixes it.

Lol. I JUST noticed where this noob says he started playing a week ago. Noob

RogueWillJan 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Mac is OP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hpGTkar3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-11T16:09:24.883+0000)

I don't know how that fight went down, but Diana should either have already killed the flashless Zed at level 6 or should at least be able to avoid being 100-0.

Besides, if she has TP she hardly loses anything for it and now Zed has no kill potential for like 3 minutes.

Summoner spells are part of the game, they're something you use with your champion. The fact that zed has 2 combat summoners and Diana has none means he will win 1v1, but has little roam presence and is missing some mobility.

The odds are youre not playing at a very high MMR, and you shouldn't take what you see as always representative of the full game

Uhm. It depends when Zed initiated. At level 6 Diana mid will have 4/1/1/1 on her abilities, meaning that she has to hit her Q to unleash her combo and she isn't tanky yet because only a single level on shield (personally I level shield first against melee but most people max the Q regardless) So if Zed used his ult to dodge Diana Q he will have around 5 sec where diana woudl be quite vulnerable, the exhaust will take care of di passive and given that diana only had a single recall she wouldn;t be tanky enough so zed will be able to 100-0 her. Her only option to survive would be flashing away since she lacks disengages

VerxintJan 11, 20161 votes

Ok slight mistake on my part, she shouldn't get 100-0 without getting outplayed. I was trying to imply that and didn't, mb.

As you say, if zed dodged diana q, then he would win because of the outplay.

My only point was that it wasn't the summoner spells that won the fight, it was the Zeds play. Zed simply pressing exhaust ignite and ult doesn't get a kill.

Also the guy is taking a Zed with no flash, that's high risk high reward. He got the reward.

RogueWillJan 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Mac is OP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hpGTkar3,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2016-01-11T19:38:52.962+0000)

Ok slight mistake on my part, she shouldn't get 100-0 without getting outplayed. I was trying to imply that and didn't, mb.

As you say, if zed dodged diana q, then he would win because of the outplay.

My only point was that it wasn't the summoner spells that won the fight, it was the Zeds play. Zed simply pressing exhaust ignite and ult doesn't get a kill.

Also the guy is taking a Zed with no flash, that's high risk high reward. He got the reward.

Honestly that kill would have change nothing thou, Diana would simply TP back to lane and proceed to keep harassing Zed. From that moment onwards she will start to level up her shield negating the 100-0 from zed.

VerxintJan 11, 20161 votes

Which is exactly what I tried to explain to the OP - diana just teleports to lane and Zed has to wait 3 minutes to do anything about it. Or Diana teleports bot because she knows Zed can't counter it.

I was trying to get OP to think out of his box but I doubt he will.

Bootleg GayJan 11, 20161 votes

Summoner spells were made to be used. He used them and was rewarded for it.

WoodakoodashoodaJan 11, 20161 votes

Summoner spells have insanely high cool downs with the exception of summoner 11 . Used correctly and they can make the most of an opportunity. Wasted and you're left incredibly vulnerable.

Take the most powerful spell summoner 4 , for instance. You could flash away from a deadly situation only to have your opponent still kill you. Not only are you dead, but you've no flash for the next 5 minutes!

HailFire DragonJan 11, 20161 votes

thats what happens when someone uses 2 offensive and defensive summoners against someone who has just tepeort. however just those summoners are not enough unless he outplayed her. and out played her HARD lmao. diana W should have been enough of a sheild and damage to protect her as zed ults in toward her and kill him with the damage and her AA attack alone not to mention straight up ulting

unless of course this zed is better than you gave him credit and waited until she was out of mana or out of cooldown to fight back before going in and bursted her down with his ult

Fizz WukongJan 11, 20161 votes

I'm being down voted, just shows how dependent LoL players are to using summoner spells as a crutch, instead of mastering your preferred champions' kits. You'd never make it in a game like DotA2. Good luck, have fun.

VerxintJan 11, 20161 votes

Wow Euuls scepter is such bullshit, nobody learns how to actually play Lina or Leshrac and land their stuns, which should take prediction and skill. Instead they just use Euuls scepter on you and get a free stun. They shouldn't be using the item as a crutch, they should be mastering their hero.

^this is how dumb you sound to us.

Also plenty of people on these boards have played DotA. It's really not that hard to play, just full of unintuitive unknowns. Don't get full of yourself.

Fizz WukongJan 11, 20161 votes

I play Tiny and Dragon Knight, so this cheese doesn't apply to me. Regardless, this item has to be purchased, you can't just hit level 10 and automatically have it. Never even tried to use them, either. The only real cheese I see in DotA2 is that freaking Zeus has damned near 100% play rate.

Smite has a lot of champs that are extremely high use as well like Neith and Poseidon.

Which is what makes LoL so enjoyable. Always getting to see different champs being played every match. Says a lot about the quality of LoL's balance team. That balance that gets broken with summoner spells.

VerxintJan 11, 20161 votes

Not only did you entirely miss my point, you clearly don't understand and don't want to understand.

You're literally saying "people have abilities they can use strategically in tandem with their champion to make plays and get kills/objectives or win trades" and using it as the claim that the game is somehow broken.

The fact is the game is balanced around summoner spells, rather than them being an afterthought like you seem to think they are. Flash is the reason why we can have hypermobile champs without making immobile ones useless, because it gives them a one time reposition that they can use strategically to win a fight.

Darius is balanced with the possibility of him exhausting you in mind. Zed is balanced with the possibility of him taking ignite. Mundo is balanced with the knowledge that ignite exists.

You don't seem to get that summoner spells are a tool that everyone has equal access to (pre-30 play is basically a joke, it doesn't matter). You also don't seem to get their optimal use... Darius shouldn't use flash and exhaust to get onto you. He should hook you, slow with W, exhaust when that ends, and follow your flash attempt with his. Alternatively, he could exhaust to set up his hook, but he doesn't get as long a slow duration because he stacks his CC. Or, he could exhaust and fight you, then pull you back in after you flash.

Instead of thinking about abilities, their applications, versatility, etc, you're basically just going "there's a tool in this game I'm not familiar with and I don't understand therefore the game is imbalanced" which is incredibly arrogant and self-righteous to be honest. Perhaps you should realize that this is a game you aren't familiar with and the idea that you have any understanding of how it is or should be balanced is sheer arrogance.

DrNovaJan 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fizz Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hpGTkar3,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-01-11T16:22:10.370+0000)

I'm being down voted, just shows how dependent LoL players are to using summoner spells as a crutch, instead of mastering your preferred champions' kits. You'd never make it in a game like DotA2. Good luck, have fun.

You are being down voted because you totally misrepresent that situation.

First off Dianna should a still won if she was leveled and farmed ahead. She got outplayed, even with the summoners spells. She fucked up clearly, so she died. That's the game.

Second Zed always has kill power early even if behind and must be respected. Especially if Dianna wasn't building defences, which as mid she likely wasn't doing.

No one cares if you leave, and stop crying.