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Can We Stop Pretending Yasuo is OP?

Genova Fearbane··17 votes·2,725 views

ANGRY RANT INBOUND

I keep hearing the same thing. Yasuo is so overpowered. RIot should just remove him. Riot pls nerf Yasuo.

Riot has nerfed Yasuo in 6 different patches. They have nerfed everything he has except his Q or 2x crit chance. And you know what, after doing a little bit of research and thanks to the charts at lolking.net, I have discovered Yasuo has the lowest win rate at 42%. THE LOWEST. LOWER THAN CASSIOPEIA AFTER THE REWORK. He also has less than a 46% win rate against any popular mid lane matchup, down to even 38%. This is probably just another example of Riot being a bit overzealous and nerfing a champion to bits before people realize how to play against him.

I really like Yasuo. And I love his kit, but for a long time I haven't really been able to trust him in mid, or in any game I want to win in general. I can't even remember the last time I fought against a Yasuo an lost. And don't tell me it's because he has a high skill cap. There is no reason that a Champ's win rate should be that low. And yes people can do well with Yasuo still, but people can also still do well with Cass, doesn't make her any more viable.

Hyper-carry swordsman my ass. More like needs-carry swordsman.

EDIT: I realize most people do not share my views. (Also apparently his Q has been nerfed as well. Yay) Understandable. But I think people remain biased for several reasons. One, is that Yasuo can still do well. I never said he was unusable. I simply think he is a bit underpowered, but like any champion can still carry a game or be a significant threat if people do not know how to fight him or he gets fed. The second, is what I like to call "Irelia Syndrome", where people will continue to call a champion overpowered despite great evidence to the contrary based on that champion's history as an overpowered death machine.

Let me clarify that Yasuo is still very much a viable champion, but requires some buffs to put him back into his role as one that can reliably compete against other mid-laners, or other carry champions in general.

54 Comments

Earl Eulrich12 votes

As long as they keep Windwall in that state he´ll be an issue.

Calabok9 votes

YES PLEASE NERF YASUO

2WhiteAndNerdy9 votes

I feel like his low winrate is due to the large number of people who think he's insta-win and then proceed to feed because they have no idea what they are doing.

TheUntitledKing3 votes

This. He's a strong high-reward pick that still requires high-skill to match it. Old Yasuo's ratio's and whatnot were high enough that any monkey with an opposable thumb could score triple kills with an item and boots, new Yasuo is still strong, it just takes longer to get to that point and all the time you take to get there you're all the more fragile. High ban/pick rates are not indicative of win rates, because when a champion is popular the small percentage of skilled players are average with the higher percentage of unskilled players.

Creamy Seaman2 votes

lol. "high-skill". Got penta my first game. This was the day he came out.

2WhiteAndNerdy3 votes

EPICHEF:

This was the day he came out.

TheUntitledKing:

Old Yasuo's ratio's and whatnot were high enough that any monkey with an opposable thumb could score triple kills with an item and boots, new Yasuo is still strong, it just takes longer to get to that point and all the time you take to get there you're all the more fragile.

I think you may have only read the first sentence. TheUntitledKing points out how strong Yasuo was and still is, but he/she is also arguing that the new Yasuo has a sort of warm-up period where the player must play well or else Yasuo will not reach the peak of his power. Personally I agree with him/her as the majority of bad Yasuo's I see play poorly early game and fail to amount to much mid to late game.

TheUntitledKing2 votes

Pretty much yeah, that's what I meant. In his new state he's like Vladimir (somewhat, I know the comparison isnt perfect across everything). Vladimir has an abysmal early game due to cooldowns and not having enough items for his passive to kick in and give him all that extra health, Yasuo now has an abysmal early game due to being squishier than most of the champion pool and not having enough items for his passive to kick in and give him all that extra crit chance. Come late game, Vladimir is nigh unkillable unless focused or bursted by someone with a lot of damage due to having at least 1500 bonus hp (Rylai's + SV + 700-900 from passive), as well as obnoxious sustain. Yasuo is nigh unkillable because he dashes around like a vaseline-covered Fizz and usually kills the other person(s) first. Similarly, old Yasuo could be abused by anyone because of his ratios. From what I understand (having joined significantly after the time I'm about to describe), Vladimir's ratios were stupidly high and his sustain in tandem made him too much to deal with. New Yasuo requires skill to excel because his kit is high maintenance and tricky, while Vladimir (currently) requires skill to excel with because his kit...sucks a bit and is obsolete, but has costless, spammable sustain at range (something no one else innately has) as well as untargetability on an 8 second cooldown at level 18 and an AoE damage amp - and if one can learn to abuse it properly they become a self-sustaining, damage dealing juggernaught.

Hex the FenFen1 votes

^

Pryotra7 votes

A fed Yasuo can still carry.

A fed Heimer in season two might have been able to be recognized as a champion.

As long as Windwall stays in that state, his raw utility will warant bad numbers everywhere else on his kit. A good comparison here is Blitzcrank. Blitzcrank has epic utility for a bruiser. However, he pays for it in stats. Another good comparison is Ashe. Ashe has the best CC and utility on an adc. She has some of the lowest damage for an adc.

Yasuo is the utility Melee adc. With that in mind, he is balanced. Want him buffed? Pay for it in Utility.

Wehrmacht Bunny4 votes

A fed Yasuo can still carry.

A fed Heimer in season two might have been able to be recognized as a champion.

As long as Windwall stays in that state, his raw utility will warant bad numbers everywhere else on his kit. A good comparison here is Blitzcrank. Blitzcrank has epic utility for a bruiser. However, he pays for it in stats. Another good comparison is Ashe. Ashe has the best CC and utility on an adc. She has some of the lowest damage for an adc.

Yasuo is the utility Melee adc. With that in mind, he is balanced. Want him buffed? Pay for it in Utility.

If only I could Hexa-facepalm.

Pryotra5 votes

Please, do tell what was facepalm worthy in that statement?

Or were you just mindlessly fanboying against me without any real argument to back it up?

Genova Fearbane1 votes

Practically any champion can carry or get underfed. That doesn't mean they're always balanced. And if Yasuo is an adc, I guess Riot forgot that adcs are ranged for reason, that being they are glass cannons, so putting one in the middle of a fight completely negates his power.

Pryotra2 votes

This argument applies to Yi, Trynd, and Fiora as well.

If you hadn't noticed, with the exception of Fiora, they all have something completely ridiculous to make up for it.

MasterYi Yi has the best offensive steroids in the game. No contest.

Tryndamere Trynd can ignore death, which can be argued as one of the best ult's in the game. Also is the only Melee adc with a wallhop and instant heal. One of the "Safest" Melee adc's for these reasons.

Yasuo Yasuo has infinite dash + Windwall + Hard CC that can potentially hold an entire team for a good chunk of time while adding a ton of damage. In other words, he has arguably some of the best utility in the game, especially for his class of Melee adc.

Shaco Not one many would think of, but could be counted here as this is one popular playstyle for this champ. His kit is the best for escaping and mindf*cking your opponent, and his ult temporarily removes him from the map and then doubles his DPS. Best Clone ingame atm, and arguably best blink.

Fiora Fiora is pretty much the one Melee adc that fails this rule, and it shows. Easily the weakest champion for this role. Everything she does, Yi literally does better.

Wehrmacht Bunny2 votes

Yasuo Yasuo has infinite dash + Windwall + Hard CC that can potentially hold an entire team for a good chunk of time while adding a ton of damage. In other words, he has arguably some of the best utility in the game, especially for his class of Melee adc.

Really? He can hold an entire team for a good chunk of time? That's a joke right? That or you never played him.

Also, what "Hard CC" does he have? He has only 1 CC that you must actually skill shot, and before you can do that you need 2 Q's on a target.

And this "Unlimited Dash"......He doesn't have, he actually has a 3 second timer on start with it, and let's also not mention that 10 second timer where you can't target the same target.

You honestly, have 0% sense of what you're talking about. Just like most people who complain about Yasuo, have never played him.

Nucleophilic atk6 votes

Can we stop pretending Yasuo is not OP and nerf him already?

Also, I didn't even read your post, but can you please change the last line to "needs carried swordsman."

TehNACHO5 votes

I find it especially funny that a lot of people who declare Yasuo is op tend to pick all the champions that Yasuo counters into Yasuo.

Not even kidding, the enemy team first picks Yasuo, our mid picks a projectile mage like Ahri or something similar, and then goes ranting all game about his Wind Wall being op.

iateurdoughnut1 votes

well said. all those idiots who pick skillshot based champs against him... well its their fault and they cant blame it on riot for making an "op" champ. they never try to learn how to play against these so called "op" champs.

Dunderflump5 votes

People being bad with Yasuo doesn't make him any less strong of a champion.

Genova Fearbane2 votes

And don't tell me it's because he has a high skill cap. There is no reason that a Champ's win rate should be that low.

Dunderflump13 votes

And don't tell me it's because he has a high skill cap. There is no reason that a Champ's win rate should be that low.

Lee's winrate is 45%. Don't even tell me that he's bad.

Genova Fearbane2 votes

He's not. But Yasuo's is 42%, and in the case of win ratio for millions of players, 3% is a big deal.

Dunderflump2 votes

He's not. But Yasuo's is 42%, and in the case of win ratio for millions of players, 3% is a big deal.

Nope.

There are a lot of factors involved in winrate; you can't claim a champion with a sub-50% winrate is bad, especially when most of the data comes from low elo.

Genova Fearbane2 votes

Except at the same time most people who play league are low elo. And we're not just talking about a sub-50% win rate. We're talking about the LOWEST WIN RATE IN THE GAME as of 4.18

Dunderflump5 votes

Except at the same time most people who play league are low elo. And we're not just talking about a sub-50% win rate. We're talking about the LOWEST WIN RATE IN THE GAME as of 4.18

Low elo doesn't matter.

Being overly dramatic doesn't change the fact that Yasuo continues to be a powerful/competitive pick.

Genova Fearbane1 votes

Rather than simply repeating that he is a powerful and competitive pick, I would like you to show me some numbers to back that up.

Rustling Bush4 votes

And don't tell me it's because he has a high skill cap. There is no reason that a Champ's win rate should be that low.

Lee's winrate is 45%. Don't even tell me that he's bad.

winrates don't really mean anything because we can't tell the # of a champion being played in matches. what i'm trying to say is that if there is 1 champion that 1 person plays that 1 time, that champion would be at a 100% or 0% win rate right?

Raptamei2 votes

And don't tell me it's because he has a high skill cap. There is no reason that a Champ's win rate should be that low.

Lee's winrate is 45%. Don't even tell me that he's bad.

But people cry for Rammus nerfs because he has a 55% winrate.

Canastus4 votes

Yasuo has the lowest win rate at 42%. THE LOWEST. LOWER THAN CASSIOPEIA AFTER THE REWORK.

Not true, nothing will ever beat 4.16 Cass in terms of awfulness.

Genova Fearbane6 votes

This says Korean diamond solo queue. What is this, stats from the top 1% in the world?

Canastus6 votes

It's pretty much the ultimate proof of her uselessness if not even korean solo queue gods can make her work.

Genova Fearbane3 votes

Except they're using her against other korean solo queue gods...

And she still won some.

I Main Swain1 votes

can you guys just stop complaining about cass? the only reason her win rate is so low right now is because people are still trying to figure out how to play the new version. shes basically in the reverse situation of aatrox when he came out. everybody thought he was op and he was known to flat out solo teams, and then people learned how to deal with him and now hes vanished from summoners rift.

Colgate Gator4 votes

The problem with this mate is that no matter how awful he performs in lane, as soon as he gets his 2 item powerspike he becomes a major issue, hell, even with just stattik he becomes one.

Also dat Windwall and gamechanging ult.

I have no idea if he's OP numbers-wise, but it's more that his kit is overly obnoxious to play agaisnt, and any mistake will turn the tide severily.

BastionKross2 votes

I have no idea if he's OP numbers-wise, but it's more that his kit is overly obnoxious to play agaisnt, and any mistake will turn the tide severily.

This. To a point, it doesn't matter how high or low his numbers are, it's that overloaded kit. Same problem Thresh has, Yasuo has so much utility. Mobility on a short CD? A Janna tornado on every third press of his Q? The ability to turn any form of displacement into an AoE lockdown? That god forsaken windwall that has a shorter CD than it rightfully should? Double crit chance? A free shield that automatically activates? Yasuo has it all.

It's too much for one champion.

Wehrmacht Bunny1 votes

I have no idea if he's OP numbers-wise, but it's more that his kit is overly obnoxious to play agaisnt, and any mistake will turn the tide severily.

This. To a point, it doesn't matter how high or low his numbers are, it's that overloaded kit. Same problem Thresh has, Yasuo has so much utility. Mobility on a short CD? A Janna tornado on every third press of his Q? The ability to turn any form of displacement into an AoE lockdown? That god forsaken windwall that has a shorter CD than it rightfully should? Double crit chance? A free shield that automatically activates? Yasuo has it all.

It's too much for one champion.

A wind wall that has 24 second cooldown. A tornado that requires 2 direct hits with Q, then is a small skill shot to hit someone. His dash is not unlimited, because you cannot target the same person within 10 seconds, not to mention you have to be pretty close to a person to dash.

I do find it funny though. People calling the wind wall bullshit. Well without it, he wouldn't be able to lane against a ranged opponant because his health is lower then an assassin.

Btw, I love all those people downvoting me, it shows how little experience they have with Yasuo, if any at all.

BastionKross1 votes

A wind wall that has 24 second cooldown.

A windwall that blocks everything short of Malphite throwing himself through it, is instant, appears on the same cell as Yasuo and extends outwards to block things that are just about to hit him, and remains there no matter how many abilities it absorbs or how far away Yasuo travels. At least Braum takes damage after the first hit.

A tornado that requires 2 direct hits with Q, then is a small skill shot to hit someone.

Are you claiming Janna's tornado is not a skillshot?

His dash is not unlimited, because you cannot target the same person within 10 seconds, not to mention you have to be pretty close to a person to dash.

If Yasuo could only dash once every ~10 seconds like most other champions with a gapcloser, there'd be no problem.

I do find it funny though. People calling the wind wall bullshit. Well without it, he wouldn't be able to lane against a ranged opponant because his health is lower then an assassin.

Welcome to playing a melee AD carry.

Wehrmacht Bunny1 votes

A windwall that blocks everything short of Malphite throwing himself through it,

Stopped reading here, because yet another person who knows very little about Yasuo is trying to sound like he knows everything about the champion.

  1. The wind wall doesn't stop everything.

  2. It has a high cooldown on it, so you can't just spam it, even at max level.

The wind wall only stops certain projectiles, where as if it's an instant projectile, it won't stop it. Vel's R, Luxs R, Xeraths Q, Azirs Q, etc.

Without the wind wall, because he's so squishy, Yasuo would fail hard against any ranged champion in the game.

Ale non è male4 votes

Riot has nerfed Yasuo in 6 different patches. They have nerfed everything he has except his Q or **2x crit chance. **

And here you can find the problem. As long as he keeps that stupid 2x crit chance passive and he get that stupid power spike with 100% crti chance with 2 common and powerful items + runes that do not require gameplay or itemization choices he will always be too strong in the right hands, and to try to balance him they will hit part of his kit that doesn't need/deserve to be nerfed thus making him even worse as champ design overall but still too strong

As soon as people will focus on what is the right problem, and start pressure Riot to solve it, as is enough to swap 2x crit chance with increased damage on crit hits, thus encouraging Yasuo to go on different build paths to build crit chance, you can go towards the solution. Doing this change would create a domino effect where Yasuo kit would end up being really UP, and at that point you can start buffing him in a wise manner to finally balance him(subtract him some of the unneeded things on ulti like shield istant refresh and almost halving the duration of bonus pen BUT giving him back power in other parts of the kit as give him back some of the MS and health lost, giving him back a bigger duration and strength of the passive shield, giving him back an higher damage cap on Sweeping Blade), keeping in mind that yasuo will always tend to be a champ that snowball or get stomped as he has most of the damage included in the ulti + the passive and the rest of his qualities(mobility/ability to block some form of damage) in the rest of his kit

Bismuthinite4 votes

Make his windwall break after X projectiles. Then Riot will be able to buff his numbers back up.

Remlap12233 votes

Honestly, what Riot should have done is give a slight delay on Wind Wall cast. That would help separate the good Yasuos from the bad. But honestly anything past this point is Olafing him. They've gutted his movespeed (which was necessary) his base health (also necessary), which brings him pretty much to the point of being balanced. But something tells me Yasuo isn't getting Lee Sin immunity, and he's going to be just another statistic of Riot's nerf bat beating soon.

hOrnn3 votes

last time i checked windwall had a shorter cooldown then ashes E for example, yet blocks her ult and 80% of others, i dont think hes OP, but hes banned due to windwall alone.

lets stop pretending like windwall isint good enough to be a ult in this game, yet is a basic ability.

Darkwind3 votes

Yeah yasuo is quite weak. Not to mention they nerfed all the wrong things about him in the first place.

FooDang2 votes

He's not OP anymore...now he's "balanced"...

Wehrmacht Bunny3 votes

He's not OP anymore...now he's "balanced"...

More like 'Under-balanced'(Underpowered).

He's classified as a fighter, but can't stand up to 99% of the champions in the game unless he's fed. Even then it's still a 50/50.

Calabok2 votes

He's not OP anymore...now he's "balanced"...

More like 'Under-balanced'(Underpowered).

He's classified as a fighter, but can't stand up to 99% of the champions in the game unless he's fed. Even then it's still a 50/50.

WRONG

EffectFX2 votes

Winrates don't mean a whole lot when A LOT of people are playing a champion. It saturates the w/l ratio with an enormous amount of players who don't know how to play the champion.

This is not to say Yasuo is strong or weak.

Bharhash1 votes

Actually, I like where Yasuo is at this point. They hit him where they needed to with this last patch; health and move speed. 50 HP doesn't seem like much, but in the early game that's the difference between first blood and dead. Yasuos have to think now in the early game, rather than dart all over without a care in the world. It's very easy to spot a good Yasuo from a bad one now.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

Actually, they did nerf his Q: the third strike no longer applies on hit effects.

I agree that Yasuo is underwhelming in his current state; however, his kits is still very potent. His recent nerfs just further emphasized the skill and experience required to play him.

Here is a couple matches I played as Yasuo to prove that he can still be viable: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/57458750#matches

There is a very peculiar method to operate his kit, which requires a great deal of trial and error. I can attest that the majority of guides are incorrect/outdated on how one should build or play him.

He is under-tuned, but no where near the degree you've described. His low win rate is mostly attributed by people who continue trying to play him as he were 6 patches ago.

Wehrmacht Bunny1 votes

Pryotra, taking a look at your profile, you don't even own Yasuo. So how can you try and attempt to speak about him? This just goes to prove the extent people will go to see a champion they suck again gets nerfed.

I even took a look at Season 3 and Season 4, and you haven't played him yet. So please, keep your nonsense to a minimum.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

You know what would allow them to bring Yasuo back up to normal levels of power?

Fixing Infinity Edge.

People complain about Yasuo's kit being overloaded, without noticing that the reason he gets such a massive power spike is because of Statikk Shiv and Infinity Edge. These two items jump his damage output to a ridiculous degree. Wouldn't that imply an issue with the items?

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