Riot, please revert the HUGE zed nerf on the PBE. it will change him forever to zed mains.

K1LLuMinat1·May 12, 2015·8 votes·2,481 views

recently they added a 1 second delay to zeds ult so that he cannot shadow back instantly. this hurts zeds character and everyone that is playing him.

you cannot make outplays anymore with this. let me give an example.

i was 100 hp. an amumu and enemy mid laner were about to dive me at my turret to kill me. amumu throws his grab. i ult and go back to my ult shadow immediately as to not get hit by a CC or by a damage ability. and i live the outplay.

now after this PBE nerf. u cannot do that anymore.

and that is only 1 example. there are TONS of there examples you can do now as zed that u wont be able to do after the nerf. u cannot ult an ahri and ult back to avoid a charm, etc. etc etc.

so please stop the hate train, and remember that nerfing a champion is good, and if zed is strong, they can always take out the bonus ad steroid, but do not make him more annoying to play as. (NOTE: this change wont him make harder to play, it just makes him more annoying to play, as being able to shadow back immediately made him more fluid. now it just makes him irritating.)

72 Comments

dEAdbUsMay 12, 20156 votes

Watch any videos how good players are beating other players. It's full of Zed, LB, Riven and Hecarims. Time to understand that this is just wrong.

BeddlamMay 12, 20156 votes

I think people are not sympathetic to your argument that you can no longer be unkillable under turret at 100hp. That isn't the problem with the nerf, it's the reason for it.

FacyMay 12, 20155 votes

Pressing 2 times R = WOW HUGE OUTPLAY SOO GOOD.... rly?

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

leblanc : W+R , "outplayed, why u fail ganks bro?"

and im too lazy but i can probalby create this kind of argument for most champions.

the R nerf will not make him harder to play, it will make him less fluid to play which is bad champion design.

Toothierosprey3May 12, 20152 votes

Yeah nobody acts like that's an outplay either without getting downvoted like crazy. You can't compare an overpowered champion to another one then act like nerfs to one are unjustified.

Nameless VoiceMay 12, 20155 votes

Zed is an extremely safe manaless AD assassin with high burst damage, great farming ability, and incredibly tower-destroying skills.

He is nearly universally hated to play against because of his combination of strengths, but mostly because of his combination of damage output (a standard assassin requirement) and extreme safety.

Rather than hurting his damage (which is a core part of an assassin's kit), they are instead looking to take away some of the extreme safety which makes laning against him feel pointless and frustrating.

One of the things that most of the oft-hated champions share is the ability to do something to an opponent without that opponent having any sufficient options to react. Zed's ultimate is an example of this - he can jump on an enemy, unload all of his spells, and then jump back to safety before the opponent has time to react or even try to fight. This isn't an "outplay", because Zed hardly needs much skill to pull it off, compared to the huge amount of skill/reaction that the opponent needs to counter it. The one-second window of opportunity (which is still quite a small window) will give the enemy a little more time to actually react to Zed's moves and give them a chance to actually outplay Zed.

Again, Riot is removing power in areas that are not primary to the champion - emphasising (or creating) weaknesses instead of nerfing the champion's defining strengths. (Though, I don't know what Zed's defining strength actually is; I'd say it should be assassination potential, but he seems to have too many random other strengths (farming, pushing, tower-killing), rather than one really powerful and defining one.)

Edit: This assumes that this change is actually real, since I can't find any confirmed source for it.

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

last time i played on pbe it was real

Troy242621May 12, 20151 votes

This sums up what I was going to say.

Toothierosprey3May 12, 20154 votes

Zed has everything. He needs something taken away, and I guess Riot wanted it to be a little bit of safety. The nerf won't even matter most of the time, because unless you're at >100 health, you can survive with zed for more than one second. I wish they would nerf his poke and waveclear as well, because an assassin that can do so much damage with so much safety shouldn't be able to clear waves and poke better than most mages.

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

then take away his damage or nerf his E damage or passive AD.

this just makes him irritating to play as it makes him less fluid. its a bad nerf.

WarlockLawMay 12, 20153 votes

Riot Isn't just going to take away a champions damage anymore when they can help it. Instead they decided that they want to take out things that aren't in their identity if the champion. Zed is meant to get in and kill someone with his ult and then get out. His ult is not meant to make him impossible to dive so they are trimming that part of his kit.

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

fizz?vlad?leblanc?

this 1 second cooldown makes him 500x harder to play in team fights .or in late game. its not just about the dives.

fizz has a 2 second invulnablity on a 5 second cooldown while zed has a ultimate ability that makes it 0.75 invulnability.

basically if this is implemented. he ONLY wins in 1 v 1. his team fight dissapears. his ability to kill a squishy who is standing beside a peeler disseapears etc.

WarlockLawMay 12, 20152 votes

I'm not saying this is the change I personally would have implemented. That would be a nerf to his q wave clear (second one deals far less damage to minions) but if I had to guess what riot would do something around this would have been my second guess. They don't want to remove his ability to kill champions so they are looking yo remove his powers that aren't directly doing so, pretty sure they said that when they nerfed his attack speed

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

thank u.

out of everybody on this thread, u are the first person not to treat me like a "trash zed player"

this thread is most likely dead because of all the worthless comments and downvotes. but thanks for the sound argument.

Toothierosprey3May 12, 20152 votes

Worthless downvotes? Zed needs some nerfs, because he is too good at everything. Nerfing his survivability is actually a good choice, in my opinion. You might disagree, but lots of people (including me) think thats a good place to hit him.

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

we arent talk about the outplays. we are talking about late game team fights and etc. this makes him worthless past 30 minutes unless his team is winning.

he tries to an adc who is grouped up and that 1 second means free CC on zed.

DrNovaMay 12, 20153 votes

Oh stop complaining. Weakest "nerf" ever.. Really, bitch about one second on a very strong and super safe ult..

Zed mains complaiin because their champ has a little more counterplay.

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

its not a counterplay.

u try being useful late game in the tank meta against so many peels and zhonyas+ qss on carries.

that 1 second means zed has to avoid team fights and it means an easy CC on him if he tries to be useful.

DrNovaMay 12, 20152 votes

Every champ has to deal with the tank meta, and most of them have less tools to stay safe then Zed does.

So he'll have to do like all the other champs that got to get inside, play smart and wait for your window of opportunity, aka after first round of spells and CC is fired off. Pretty standard really.

warpenguin555May 12, 20153 votes

no they didnt. stop trolling

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

last time i played him on the PBE. they did do it. it was a shadow nerf.

idk if they changed him back but i will check later on.

MartyrofsandMay 12, 20153 votes

What makes me laugh the most is people who do stuff like this with Zed and think "OMG I just out played you so hard." No, no you didn't. You pressed 2 buttons and the champs overloaded and toxic kit did everything for you. You are not out playing anyone by playing a champ who simply has an overloaded kit that was designed by someone who is on record of saying he wants his champs to be able to "be successful everywhere and against anyone."

Sorry but if you are playing a CertaintlyT champ you are not out playing anyone, your champ simply does more than others.

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

haha nice attacking people. u are a good person.

that aside. im not talking about outplays. im not even going to give u an argument back because of what u just wrote. all i can say i hope u can read other comments.

good luck with ur future arguments.

MartyrofsandMay 12, 20152 votes

What's funny is you think I wrote that to have a discussion as oppose to state a fact about CertaintlyT's champion creations.

AxestsMay 12, 20152 votes

All i can say is leave it to the PBE testers to give feedback on if it's bad it won't happen if it isn't it won't

DrNovaMay 12, 20151 votes

lol. Cause pbe testers get listened to.

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20152 votes

why all the downvotes.

is this change really needed? why not lower his E damage, his W ad steroid. or his W cooldown.

why make him less fluid?

ScreamPasteMay 12, 20152 votes

You dared disagree with the boards hivemind, you will be downvoted until there is no chance of riot seeing your post, because the only opinions that matter are the ones that are 'nerf champions I don't play'.

I hate Zed, but I hate the downvote circlejerk even more. Have an upvote for visibility, but I do hope this nerf goes through.

Toothierosprey3May 12, 20152 votes

I hate going against Zed. I hate people who act like I'm downvoting for no other reason than to downvote. I've played Zed recently, and he's way too strong. He needs nerfs all around. It's not "the boards hivemind" or the "downvote circlejerk" it's the community's opinion on Zed.

ScreamPasteMay 12, 20151 votes

The community is not a single unified body.

It's the opinion of the people who downvoted this post, not the opinion of everyone, nor does having a theoretical majority make an argument more valid.

The downvote button needs to be removed, because it is used to silence discussion and remove posts people don't want seen.

Toothierosprey3May 12, 20152 votes

"The boards hivemind."

The people who downvoted this post are part of the community. If half of the community approved of this post and half didn't, this post would have zero downvotes. The opinion of the people on these boards accurately represent the opinion of the entire community. What's the difference between people who downvoted the post and the community in general?

{quoted}

The downvote button needs to be removed, because it is used to silence discussion and remove posts people don't want seen.

If the majority of people don't want to see a post, why should it even stay? The downvote button expresses the general opinion. Do you actually think the majority of people want Zed nerfs cancelled?

ScreamPasteMay 12, 20151 votes

It doesn't matter. If the majority wants that, their voice can be heard, but if someone else wants to express an opinion it is outright silenced by the downvote system.

That's garbage.

Toothierosprey3May 12, 20151 votes

They're silenced if it's an unpopular opinion...

ScreamPasteMay 12, 20151 votes

And that is the problem.

Toothierosprey3May 12, 20151 votes

Why should unpopular opinions be heard? It's like a lady that says cigarettes are healthy because her grandfather smoked and he lived until he was 98. An opinion like that isn't very helpful.

ScreamPasteMay 12, 20153 votes

Strawman argument.

Unpopular does not mean wrong. Cigarettes are unhealthy, that is an objective truth, appeal to majority is a fallacy.

People whose opinions are widely disagreed with should still have a voice. Especially on a board as biased as this one.

Ask yourself this; what if an opinion, despite being unpopular, is right?

Toothierosprey3May 13, 20152 votes

Yeah, I agree with the points you've made. Some unpopular opinions should be heard, but the majority should not. Most of the time, the opinion is unpopular because it's just stupid. Some, though, have some good points and are unreasonably dismissed.

ScreamPasteMay 13, 20151 votes

Thank you!

I just think it'd be worth sifting through a bit more garbage for the gems, y'know? Some of those opinions are worth saving, and shouldn't just fall victim to the knee jerk downvote brigade.

That's all. :)

JustMyBassCannonMay 12, 20152 votes

People kept asking for this kind of nerf to Zed, and Riot's testing it. I've personally thought that, while Zed is pretty well balanced, his ult is too safe. This is a perfectly targeted nerf, and if it goes through, great Zed players can still make plays and point to this nerf, saying "You got the nerf you wanted, you're still losing because I'm a good player."

SwollwonderMay 12, 20152 votes

See this would be a valid argument if Zed's ult was meant to be a fizz troll poll. Its not Its meant to amplify damage not let you avoid it. If youre getting damaged it means as an assassin you are out of position and deserve death. This is one of the counters to assassins after all

BluePolarizerMay 12, 20152 votes

I have to say, I'd much rather face Zed than face LB.

warpenguin555May 13, 20152 votes

ok. im wrong. had a number of people come forward and tell me so, posting links and even Meddler told me i was wrong. Im sorry bro. Compensated with +1 upvote

K1LLuMinat1May 13, 20151 votes

thanks dude. but its a bit too late.

i reacted very angry towards the changes and i have gotten the downvotes i deserved. hopefully people with better communication skills than me can talk about the changes.

FuIlmute AllMay 12, 20151 votes

He feels fairly balanced.. He has a 47% winrate and I never have a flat out ridiculous time facing him. I don't play him so I by no means am being a "defending my main" type of guy. He never seems that big of a problem to me personally. When balanced champions find succession people like to say OP instead of it works. It's not like he outshines everybody in the mid lane lmao.

dEAdbUsMay 12, 20153 votes

When you'll meet good Zed, you will understand that you cant do anything vs him. But this is rare until high elo.

You're doing mistake: for balancing champion you must look on usual players that are playing him, you must look on best players. Because some champions are easy, some are difficult. But you must compare when they're performing on their highest level. That why Azir get nerfs with 45% winrate - because some players were unbeatable with him, while most people werent able to use him and lost most their games.

DJ Di0May 12, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Im VeX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hg08fATo,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-05-12T16:32:59.789+0000)

He feels fairly balanced.. He has a 47% winrate and I never have a flat out ridiculous time facing him. I don't play him so I by no means am being a "defending my main" type of guy. He never seems that big of a problem to me personally. When balanced champions find succession people like to say OP instead of it works. It's not like he outshines everybody in the mid lane lmao.

Talon Yasuo Akali

FuIlmute AllMay 12, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hg08fATo,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2015-05-12T17:41:36.428+0000)

I'm sorry but he does not outshine Talon in the slightest. Talon is very strong, and just cause you're not seeing him in LCS doesn't mean otherwise.

K1LLuMinat1May 12, 20151 votes

as i said to these people. they can nerf him other ways by removing damage from w or e . or cooldown of W. or cooldown of E.

u dont have to change his ult. which is the only thing he has for him in a 50 minute game where every enemy has peel, tank meta, zhonyas, qss. etc.

DrNovaMay 12, 20152 votes

Its one second. It gives his ult some counterplay. Perfectly reasonably.

Meep ManMay 13, 20151 votes

Im a little confused. I have played Zed a decent bit. Not too much, not too little. I have never had a time where I have had to instantly click R after using it on someone. It takes me around 1 second to go full combo as Zed on someone, then I click R about 1 second later. This is only going to impact an R spam happy Zed who uses his R into the enemy team, realizes his mistake while untargetable, then instantly clicks R.