If Riot wants to change the meta they need to nerf support items.

Rins Thigh Socks·Aug 12, 2017·3 votes·696 views

No, not supports.

Support ITEMS.

of course, you have good ol' Janna and Sona running away with games in solo queue because of how strong Coin + Censer is.

Tank supports and friends winning competitive games with Knight's Vow/Locket. These picks are built around who abuses specific items the best.

And then solo queue is plagued with support items in every role not named AD. Cho'Gath gets Stoneplate then runs Locket/Knight's Vow

Jarvan top is played the same way you play Cho'Gath, only you pop Stoneplate AFTER your combo rather than before pressing R. Or you play Shen for roughly the same amount of shielding.

And I am sick and tired of playing against Karma mids. 2nd in a row, 3rd or 4th this weekend.

11 Comments

IxtaliKingAug 13, 20175 votes

Karma is supposed to be a mid laner, she has been played primarily as a mid laner for the majority of her existence. Similar to Morgana, Karma can work well as a support due to her high base damage and utility. Picking mages like these as supports means you can have another damage oriented mage or assassin as a mid laner, that's why you often see them there nowadays.

Also, I find it interesting that Ahri players always seem to be the ones to complain about champs like Karma, Zyra and Morgana in mid. Ahri is one of the safest mid laners in the game, how has a 45% win rate Karma got you so sick and tired?

Rins Thigh SocksAug 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Karma is supposed to be a mid laner, she has been played primarily as a mid laner for the majority of her existence. Similar to Morgana, Karma can work well as a support due to her high base damage and utility. Picking mages like these as supports means you can have another damage oriented mage or assassin as a mid laner, that's why you often see them there nowadays.

Also, I find it interesting that Ahri players always seem to be the ones to complain about champs like Karma, Zyra and Morgana in mid. Ahri is one of the safest mid laners in the game, how has a 45% win rate Karma got you so sick and tired?

Makes the game boring because all they have to do is waveclear, play safe and then empower their AD 40 minutes in. Ya know all that good fun, healthy, interactive gameplay.
This isn't my main account. Main account (banned on Boards, RIP) has like 4 Ahri games over past 40. I normally don't play her since I can already play her well and want mastery of a variety of champions.

Last 2 games I played against Karma were Vlad and TF. Couldn't beat either though because AD got fed and then she empowered them to steamroll us. That's why it's annoying. It's entire teams built around ADCs that make my contribution have to be to helping the AD or just lose game.

ShonjlAug 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Karma is supposed to be a mid laner, she has been played primarily as a mid laner for the majority of her existence. Similar to Morgana, Karma can work well as a support due to her high base damage and utility. Picking mages like these as supports means you can have another damage oriented mage or assassin as a mid laner, that's why you often see them there nowadays.

Also, I find it interesting that Ahri players always seem to be the ones to complain about champs like Karma, Zyra and Morgana in mid. Ahri is one of the safest mid laners in the game, how has a 45% win rate Karma got you so sick and tired?

Ahris hate them because they can murder her before she does anymore or stop what she wants to do. Zyra will keep her low hp so she is scared to all in, Morg can shield the charm and a lot of damage, Karma is fast and has a shield as well, and can just root her and walk away.

I always love pissing off Ahris since she is an easymode champ. Pathetically easy to pick up on, hard to master. But you don't have to master her to be good. Its why Lee Sin is a joke as well. Sure he is hard to master, but any half dead monkey can press R Q Q which is basically how you play Lee.

IxtaliKingAug 15, 20171 votes

Lol to be honest I usually pick Zyra and Karma into Ahri deliberately. Only because most times I assume the enemy is picking Ahri for the fact that she's an easy and safe mid, and probably aren't experienced. Its true what you're saying though.

Kariu RenaAug 12, 20171 votes

Lol supports item isnt broken just nerf the other roles that benedit from it xdd

TikailAug 12, 20171 votes

Uh, stoneplate is a tank item, not a support item... Knight's vow was made to specifically address the issue of support tank itemization which has historically been severely lacking as the meta favored supports with heals and/or steroids.

Cho is a tank, he is mainly played jung/top. Jarvan is jung/top tank too. Shen as well.

Karma has always been a mid-laner.

Rins Thigh SocksAug 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Uh, stoneplate is a tank item, not a support item... Knight's vow was made to specifically address the issue of support tank itemization which has historically been severely lacking as the meta favored supports with heals and/or steroids.

Cho is a tank, he is mainly played jung/top. Jarvan is jung/top tank too. Shen as well.

Karma has always been a mid-laner.

I'm saying that these champions (top/jg) need Stoneplate and then they get support items. From my point of view, that's fucked.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA no she's not. She was consistently played support for at least a year until Riot nerfed her out of existence, then she came back as a midlane Ardent Censer user. She pushes, roams bot, and supports the AD for the majority of the game.

ShonjlAug 13, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=heyFKx8q,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-08-13T00:48:16.397+0000)

I'm saying that these champions (top/jg) need Stoneplate and then they get support items. From my point of view, that's fucked.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA no she's not. She was consistently played support for at least a year until Riot nerfed her out of existence, then she came back as a midlane Ardent Censer user. She pushes, roams bot, and supports the AD for the majority of the game.

I wouldn't say Karma isn't a mid laner. Its no different than Morgana, they generally are supports sure, but they are more than capable of being mid. Hell, Karma and Morg actually beat most mid lane match ups at that.

They are mages after all and all mages can work in mid lane with success.

Rins Thigh SocksAug 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't say Karma isn't a mid laner. Its no different than Morgana, they generally are supports sure, but they are more than capable of being mid. Hell, Karma and Morg actually beat most mid lane match ups at that.

They are mages after all and all mages can work in mid lane with success.

Karma and Morg beat most midlane matchups solely due to their oppressive early games but fall short to any decent midlane picks in that they don't have as strong of late-games due to their hugely lacking DPS as well as their unreliability/need to get close. The only good midlaners that need to get close are exceptionally tanky or strong mobility.

If you can win games at the laning phase, go ahead and pick something like Morg or Karma, but in most high elo games you'll find it's better to pick champions that don't need to engage for their teams.

That is, until Ardent Censer Karma came up. Now you just press E on your AD and laugh.

ShonjlAug 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=heyFKx8q,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-13T01:30:47.578+0000)

Karma and Morg beat most midlane matchups solely due to their oppressive early games but fall short to any decent midlane picks in that they don't have as strong of late-games due to their hugely lacking DPS as well as their unreliability/need to get close. The only good midlaners that need to get close are exceptionally tanky or strong mobility.

If you can win games at the laning phase, go ahead and pick something like Morg or Karma, but in most high elo games you'll find it's better to pick champions that don't need to engage for their teams.

That is, until Ardent Censer Karma came up. Now you just press E on your AD and laugh.

I wouldn't say they fall of lategame. All the assassins fall of lategame so that wouldn't matter. And any of the mages will still die if they get hit by her Q.

A full AP Morg can Q you for about 1k and her W will tick for roughly 300. Doesn't matter if you are Ahri to Lux, they will die from that. Sure they can dodge the Q, but I mean Morg can basically do the same to them. Lux has no kill pressure if she can't Q you, and Ahri if she misses her charm can't really kill a Morg since her shield will absorb majority of her all in and Morg Q will be up before Ahri E.

Not to mention they bring something to the table that Ahri or Lux can never hope to achieve. Later in the game they become high priority 2nd support targets. A Morg can still do her support job as AP, while still be a threat to everyone in front of her due to her damage. You gotta burst her or she will kill people, but you gotta kill the ADC or they will kill you, but can't kill the ADC easily when Morg can protect them still while killing you. Ahri is predictable in what she wants. She wants to get a pick on someone alone or out of position. In a teamfight she stays on the outskirts since if she goes in the middle of it, doesn't matter how many dashes she has, she will die. Lux basically has to land Q to kill people, otherwise just sits back and throws Es mainly which don't do much on their own.

And that is just Morg. Karma is even worse since her RQ can legit 1 shot you, super low cd Q. And she can still chain people and shield people galoore. Can't ignore her, but can't get the ADC while she is alive either.