Please stop adding 0 counterplay items

Beerstein·May 3, 2018·2 votes·1,304 views

True damage shouldn't be a normal thing. You added it to Conqueror already, and I'm not ashamed to admit (because I'm not dumb) I use it on champs like Yi to shred tanks like tissue paper. Now you're adding it on an item...Why is no on outraged at the lack of counter play?

Also buffing mages, why are you buffing mages damage instead of bringing others down to where mages are? Have you ever considered that mages were healthy and everyone else was the broken ones? Why is it always more damage, why do people have to melt in 2 seconds? Little off topic from the 0 counterplay of true damage but come on. I'm not playing into true damage because I like it, but because it's stupid not to. I don't like it.

It belongs on things like Chogath ult, not everyone in the entire game.

I admit though, the rylais +5 AP gets me a bit excited...Seriously though, stop adding damage without defense.

12 Comments

Vid the StrangeMay 3, 20184 votes

For real, though, DPS champions are supposed to out-scale tanks. SOMETHING has to beat tanks late-game, otherwise games would drag on far longer than is reasonable due to nobody being able to kill the tanks.

Okay, so 20% of the ADC's damage is true damage. That's still 80% of their damage being physical, and thus mitigated by your armor.

Offense HAS to out-scale defense by some point, because defense can't close out games.

DestructoDaveMay 3, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vid the Strange,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hZyfvcyT,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-05-03T02:26:16.092+0000)

For real, though, DPS champions are supposed to out-scale tanks. SOMETHING has to beat tanks late-game, otherwise games would drag on far longer than is reasonable due to nobody being able to kill the tanks.

Okay, so 20% of the ADC's damage is true damage. That's still 80% of their damage being physical, and thus mitigated by your armor.

Offense HAS to out-scale defense by some point, because defense can't close out games.

My only issue, is a lot of this stuff directly hurts tanks during their power-time. All this true damage hurts early in the game, too.

To be perfectly honest, picking any sort of real tank in solo Q is just pissing away LP. The only tanks that are even doing well are crap like Singed, a dmg tank, Sion, etc.

Competitive is a whole different ballgame to solo Q. A tank can work there. Solo Q there is so many kills, so much going on, so little coordination that you get outscaled pretty damn fast in most games because a lot of the popular champs have no issues dumping on tanks. I mean if you get the holy trinity of being in some game vs another tank, with something like an enemy Ashe, you will be an extreme livelord. Then the next game you get in vs vayne/Kai'sa, laning vs a Jax that outscales you on 1 item with Conqueror, and your life is miserable as shit by 15-20 minutes, and just keeps getting worse.

BeersteinMay 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

My only issue, is a lot of this stuff directly hurts tanks during their power-time. All this true damage hurts early in the game, too.

To be perfectly honest, picking any sort of real tank in solo Q is just pissing away LP. The only tanks that are even doing well are crap like Singed, a dmg tank, Sion, etc.

Competitive is a whole different ballgame to solo Q. A tank can work there. Solo Q there is so many kills, so much going on, so little coordination that you get outscaled pretty damn fast in most games because a lot of the popular champs have no issues dumping on tanks. I mean if you get the holy trinity of being in some game vs another tank, with something like an enemy Ashe, you will be an extreme livelord. Then the next game you get in vs vayne/Kai'sa, laning vs a Jax that outscales you on 1 item with Conqueror, and your life is miserable as shit by 15-20 minutes, and just keeps getting worse.

Yup, I found out that Conqueror is absolutely devastating on Yi when I can engage a jungle minion near the enemy jungler, he waits, attacks, I q onto him, and he dies. Bonus points if I can position him between me and said JG minion.

Dasdi96May 3, 20183 votes

I actually think that 8.11 will be the end of tanks, at least past 30 minutes. So if you are tank, better end early or else you will get shredded late game.

Vid the StrangeMay 3, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I actually think that 8.11 will be the end of tanks, at least past 30 minutes. So if you are tank, better end early or else you will get shredded late game.

The champions who buy Infinity Edge are SUPPOSED to shred tanks past 30 minutes.

That's literally the entire purpose of the item, and has been since forever. This change just makes it less powerful against squishies.

ZallamanceMay 3, 20182 votes

Tank were dominant, bruisers sucked. Overall the best way to fix this was to create a keystone that turned a portion of you damage into true damage, so you could actually hurt them. Further more, it's on a delay before it activates, making it a lot less accessible to champs that can't constantly be in combat. Yea, now literally every champ in the game can do true damage if they chose, but you can't use it to burst a target randomly, and it's not bonus damage, it's a portion of you damage. Meaning if you're not building damage, it get pretty weak. Further more, it's true damage, not resistance shredding. Making it very useful for that Garen with 400 armor and not nearly as useful on that adc with 60. True damage is fine, as long as it's balanced.

As for mages, which seems easier; more efficient; easier to fix if something goes wrong: Buff 30 champs? Or nerf 114?

BeersteinMay 3, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Tank were dominant, bruisers sucked. Overall the best way to fix this was to create a keystone that turned a portion of you damage into true damage, so you could actually hurt them. Further more, it's on a delay before it activates, making it a lot less accessible to champs that can't constantly be in combat. Yea, now literally every champ in the game can do true damage if they chose, but you can't use it to burst a target randomly, and it's not bonus damage, it's a portion of you damage. Meaning if you're not building damage, it get pretty weak. Further more, it's true damage, not resistance shredding. Making it very useful for that Garen with 400 armor and not nearly as useful on that adc with 60. True damage is fine, as long as it's balanced.

As for mages, which seems easier; more efficient; easier to fix if something goes wrong: Buff 30 champs? Or nerf 114?

Rather nerf 114 in the current melty meta tbh. Also, these are the same champs that could already melt tanks with conqueror keystone. It was just a bit more palatable on melee AD champs since others preferred other keystones. Now they get best of both worlds. The problem is you SHOULD be able to itemize to defend against someone. Removing the ability to makes 0 sense. If someone builds armor pen, you build HP, if someone builds % damage you build armor/mres. If someone builds true damage the ONLY counterplay is to build more damage, defense isn't an option anymore, and sorry but tanks should be able to tank.

ZallamanceMay 3, 20183 votes

I agree, tanks should be able to tank. However, in other games (MMo's for example), tanks are meant to soak from the enemies, and the way of doing so is to taunt. Unless every tank in the entire game had a taunt, this is not possible for League. So, when you have a tank go in during a teamfight, what's the reason to attack him, and not the other enemies? What is the point of his tankiness if no one is attacking him?

Solution: make the tank to damage. Not a massive amount, but enough that they need to be dealt with when possible. In comes the tank meta. A 0/7 Maokai can solo and beat a 7/0 Twitch. He's no longer a tank, he's a one man army. Now put this into top lane. A Riven's only chance would be to kill the enemy Malphite early level, because once he backs, he's just going to build a bunch of armor, and then you can't do anything.

The reason for introducing the keystone was to make a way for fighters to actually be playable top lane when picked against tanks. Also, there is a counter to most instance of true damage: health. True damage is a flat number, thusly the more health you have, the less impact you'll feel. There are champions who disregard this, Vayne and Fiora come to mind, but this thread seems to be oriented towards the Keystone, rather than champions that have % health true damage.

KyazaMay 3, 20181 votes

cant wait to play ashe with lethal tempo. full build just press q and auto pentakill

Meep ManMay 3, 20181 votes

Counterplay? For basic attacks? IE adds true damage to basic attacks and crits at that. You aren't really supposed to have counterplay to items too unless it's in general, like Armor Shred or Ninja Tabi's or stuff like that. Items aren't supposed to have "counterplay". Oh, and true damage does have counter play. You just build flat health.

DestructoDaveMay 3, 20181 votes

I hate playing tanks right now. Anytime I get top, I generally like to play some kind of tank. Mao, etc. Facing all these conqueror champs up there gets pretty damn annoying, tbh.