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as a Nautilus jungle main, new jungle is absolute bonkers

DoFr··72 votes·6,545 views

Hunter's Machete

Cost lowered to 350 from 400
Now Gives 8% lifesteal vs monsters
JUNGLE Passive removed.
NEW Passive - Nail: Basic attacks deal 20 bonus damage on hit vs Monsters. Killing large monsters grants 15 bonus experience.

(No Healing, But Damage and lifesteal)

Hunter's Talisman

350 gold
+150% Mana Regeneration while in Jungle.
UNIQUE Passive - Tooth: Damaging a monster steals 20 Health over 5 seconds. Grants +15 bonus experience when killing Large Jungle Monsters.

(No Damage, but extra sustain)

both of those two, don't by any means support Tank junglers, Tank junglers can't use lifesteal, so they can't take the machete.

while Hunter's potion seems like the most viable pick for a weak early jungler, it doesn't provide the thing that Tanks known to NOT have. that'd be Damage.

and i'm not gonna wait for 40 seconds trying to clear my red/blue buff only to have leesin or ANY jungler that can clear fast to catch me low and struggling at level 2.

just when you think the jungle is going to be rough, Riot keeps on hitting even harder

Lord Dominik's Regards.

ADCs having items that punish you for having greater health (honestly, this changes affects EVERY other role aswell, including even squishie supports that only build Sightstone, which was proven in different threads)

and also an Easy access to LW.

Easier access to crits and CDR, a stronger mana regeneration than AP items thanks to Essence reaver, and so on makes ADC weakpoints less and less frequents, resulting in harder ganks for a Tank that deals no damage but offers CC.

at this Ratio ADC won't need a support, because they have everything they need in thier masteries.

but no, this isn't about the ADCs.

this is about the Tanks in jungle, and how Not only the jungle changes affect them, but also the marksman update is heavily not on their Favor.

Tanks are in an extremely Terrible position now, they're in a meta where health is a sin, and armor is paper, in a meta where crit items are for everyone.

this will only result in the rise of the Assassins meta, the romaing Talons/Zeds.

the jungle kha'zixes and Rengars.

Even more Nidalees and Elise.

134 Comments

Silents42934 votes

As another Jungle Nautilus main, he clears fine with the new items, the jungle monsters lost there armor and do less damage now too. We also have the new masteries

Specifically

Runic Armor: +1.6%/3.2%/4.8%/6.4%/8% bonus to all shields and healing on you (includes lifesteal and regeneration)

Bond of Stone: +4% Damage Reduction. While near an ally this bonus is doubled and 8% of the damage they would take from champions is dealt to you instead (cannot reduce you below 15% Health).

And here is Stonewall008 clearing all camps on Nautilus just fine https://youtu.be/VysfEvVPDYw?t=431

This post is a bit of an overreaction.

Starfish H15 votes

Nautilis cleared better than Evelynn who several people said "She's one of the only viable Junglers now" He has a slower clearing time but he has a pretty safe clear and didn't lose much health. OP is exaggerating not a bit but a lot.

LankPants19 votes

both of those two, don't by any means support Tank junglers, Tank junglers can't use lifesteal, so they can't take the machete.

Actually the other item's so trash that machete is your best choice. If you run AS quints and AD reds it's not terrible.

That still doesn't really fix their issues though. By specialising your runes tanks go from unplayable to bad. It's still going to be 100% better to pick a damage based jungler every time.

3TWarrior11 votes

so basically, riot wants reksai, lee, Evelynn and very few others to be the only viable junglers

Chaotic Reks8 votes

wait riot wants Evelynn to be viable?

3TWarrior5 votes

shhhhh...it's a secret

no, they don't, but it will more than likely be a side-effect

Reynard the ƒox16 votes

"Hey guys, remember when Lee, Rek'Sai, and Vi were literally your only choices for junglers? Well we liked that, so that's how it's gonna be for the entirety of Season 6."

With Love, rito balance team

Prospector Pete12 votes

Upvoted. This is getting ridiculous.

thePandev9 votes

I just want another funny ass start to a season like league of item 3071 back in the day.

Noam Braumsky2 votes

{quoted}

I just want another funny ass start to a season like league of item 3071 back in the day.

Hell, it's practically League o' item 3071 anyway. It's amazing for every ad casters and Riot seems to be making it more attractive to adcs in the preseason changes.

Battlecast Sona2 votes

still really only good on MF, I don't know why people think ADCs will buy this (I've played like 50 games as ADC on PBE so far and the only time I did was top lane, and even then it was last item against Malphite/Rammus.)

Noam Braumsky1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUkN9z3V,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2015-11-08T21:11:11.103+0000)

still really only good on MF, I don't know why people think ADCs will buy this (I've played like 50 games as ADC on PBE so far and the only time I did was top lane, and even then it was last item against Malphite/Rammus.)

I'm not saying most adcs will buy it, but it's actually getting changes with the intent of being used even more.

Battlecast Sona3 votes

Actually, Riot's intent (which is on Surrender@20 if you're interested, in their Red Post Roundup) was to make Black Cleaver less attractive as a jack-of-all-trades first rush item on every top laner (which is why the HP took a hit but AD got buffed). They want to make it more attractive as a single DAMAGE item, but less attractive as a first rush I win every lane forever on every top laner.

ZT Xperimentor8 votes

I miss the days when they didn't realize passives stacked; garen getting a pentakill drive-by with 5 sunfire capes was hilarious.

HayRoss2 votes

Is there a YouTube video of that somewhere?

HentRex3 votes

Haven't seen one for Garen but there is one of Evelynn,(Stealth back in the day didn't pop when getting close to enemies) stacked 5 and just followed people around til they died.

spavined6 votes

or the classic eve(or twitch) 6 sunfire stack where you just stand next to people until they died, good times

Oshlet8 votes

Hunters talisman does 20 damage over time to any monster damaged by your abilities, thus works quite well on tank junglers with aoe abilities.

LankPants16 votes

Hunters talisman does 20 damage over time to any monster damaged by your abilities, thus works quite well on tank junglers with aoe abilities.

4 DPS is pathetic damage. It's less damage than what Bladed Armour does and that mastery is widely considered garbage.

If you do some simple math and assume your champ has more than 0.5 AS (they do) you can easily see that Machete is dealing at least 10 DPS. While you technically lose out on damage against the small creeps that doesn't matter because jungle tanks tend to have good AOE and kill the small creeps easily anyway.

As for the sustain the break even point seems to be around 3 creeps from my testing. The only camp where Talisman out sustains Machete is the Raptors and it's a marginal advantage at best. You tend to lose more HP just from clearing the Raptors more slowly than you'll actually gain in sustain.

At the moment Talisman is utter trash. The only good reason to buy that item is being Fiddlesticks. Even on other weird off meta AP junglers like Zyra and Brand Machete is better.

I can also tell you that from my tests with Sej Talisman finishes about 20 seconds slower with around 100 less HP on an identical path with optimal runepages for both. (more AD and CDR for machete, more AP and Armour for Talisman)

Oshlet9 votes

I was just making the point that it deals damage. Crap damage, but still damage which op says it doesn't do.

You make good points though, it does seem pretty shit.

Battlecast Sona2 votes

I don't really think Talisman was meant as a starting jungle item (except for some fringe cases). It's just a way for you to increase your clear and sustain in the jungle without fully committing to a tier2 jungle item (especially with the price increases, this becomes important for off-meta junglers or junglers who don't rely on a particular enchantment to succeed).

TurquoiseYoshi7 votes

Good thing I already play a lot of jungle Nid.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Good thing I already play a lot of jungle Nid.

Must. Downvote. Cancer. Why do I only have one vote.

TurquoiseYoshi10 votes

It ain't my fault that you can't dodge max range spears.

Blue Moon Wolf5 votes

Now Gives 8% lifesteal vs monsters

Yea, that life steal isn't all that useful when you hit with the speed of a rampaging tortoise .__.

Skias2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUkN9z3V,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2015-11-08T19:52:04.713+0000)

Yea, that life steal isn't all that useful when you hit with the speed of a rampaging tortoise .__.

Do you jungle without attack speed marks? Even on Taric, I run 9 attack speed marks, armor quints, armor yellows and mr blues.

Blue Moon Wolf2 votes

when I'm normally jungling I do since most of my jungles are fighter/bruiser types (aside from Kindred and the occasional Teemo), but for Naut I tend to focus on his health, armor/mr and AP. Jungling him I think I save up for item 3709 so it does half the work of me :p

ZT Xperimentor4 votes

Tanks in general are the first to get shafted whenever they remotely become viable. This consistent double standard of riot is getting frustrating & boring.

Skias2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUkN9z3V,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2015-11-08T19:26:26.071+0000)

Tanks in general are the first to get shafted whenever they remotely become viable. This consistent double standard of riot is getting frustrating & boring.

To be fair, tanky man meta is super boring in itself. 4 guys with stacked hp and armor that just blow down your towers isnt much fun

HayRoss4 votes

{quoted} Tanks are in an extremely Terrible position now, they're in a meta where health is a sin, and armor is paper, in a meta where crit items are for everyone.

So terrible, that Terrible had to be capitalized.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

So Terrible, that a 5k HP Volibear with Tabi + Randuins can get killed by Lucian in 4 Autoattacks.

Skias2 votes

{quoted}

So Terrible, that a 5k HP Volibear with Tabi + Randuins can get killed by Lucian in 4 Autoattacks.

How does that work out? Id like to see the math on that

My Waifu Vanilla4 votes

The worst idea I ever had on PBE was trying to clear the jungle on Pantheon. God it was so slow and I got my ass beat until like level 5. Time to just stay as a mid lane cancer point and click champ for me I guess.

DoFr2 votes

Amen, we should all convert to midlane, as we watch jungle scrubs not gank a flashless oom enemy midlaner with 15% health, because scuttle is hard to chase.

http://s3.postimg.org/cmwh3ioqb/casuals_AF.jpg

DeBigMoist3 votes

or the jungle tahms who 3 shot assassins while having 4.5k-5.5k health with sated UNBENCH IT

gg git diff3 votes

Stop and consider that not every jungler should have a good clear. Clear speed/health is a strength or weakness.

Sire Hippington3 votes

350 gold +150% Mana Regeneration while in Jungle. UNIQUE Passive - Tooth: Damaging a monster** steals** 20 Health over 5 seconds. Grants +15 bonus experience when killing Large Jungle Monsters.

(No Damage, but extra sustain)

Hunters talisman is quite nice for clearinf wolfs/raptors. Together with W and nerfed jungle damage, you loose next to no health on those camps even on first clear

Darius Strada2 votes

Kha'Zix? This season will be the death sentence to him.

Robert Smith5 votes

New Hextech heals for 15% of all damage. He can heal from his bike of a Q and get some AP as well for his W.

Battlecast Sona6 votes

or you can make Death's Dance and do the same thing for all physical damage + take 12% of damage as a DoT + 10% CDR...

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

Gunblade active isn't that bad on him probably and does decent damage even without AP. Kha'zix problem is the fact he doesn't do well in the jungle after all of his nerfs and is pretty much stuck in a lane. He is also one of the few AD Junglers that probably doesn't like new Warrior over old one since his AD Ratios will not outweigh the loss of ArP.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

Kha'Zix? This season will be the death sentence to him.

How do you figure? He's gaining lifesteal in the jungle, Warrior has way more AD, there's an AD spell vamp item now that's perfect for assassins and Kha can even pick up a Phantom Dancer to make his dueling power insane.

Plus Lord Dormik's Regard, which gives him a 15% damage amp. I honestly thought Riot had learned their lesson about % amps, but hey, let's just give it to all AD assassins, why not?

3TWarrior2 votes

do the new jungle items still include a gold bonus?

if not, that's a major problem

Partholonian5 votes

No. Camps naturally give more gold and less experience than they gave in S5. So the reward to a jungler with jungle item is similar, but the reward to a laner grabbing a camp before going to lane is less significant for laning.

Battlecast Sona2 votes

They redid it so the jungle items give bonus experience and the bonus gold exists on the camps. It's so you can't double jungle for 2 level 2's - the jungler will hit 2, but the solo laner will only be level 1. Also, a solo laner taking a camp by themselves will not hit level 2 (I think buff camps are still hard level 2 no matter what but what solo laner is gonna go solo blue/red level 1...)

ayNigerianPrince3 votes

Sion

Doctor Dyment2 votes

God fucking DAMN IT. Nautilus is one of my favorite junglers in the entire game. Riot doesn't seem to have any idea HOW BADLY THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT LITERALLY EVERYONE WHO ISN'T AN ADC.

Ferus and Ferrum3 votes

Am I the only one who thinks that this is a major overreaction? Naut's clear doesn't even suck. Evelynn has a harder time...

SlashStriker2 votes

people should not be a meatshield but add some damage to their builds. I ve seen nautilus that deals quite amount of damage (i think it was ad naut)

for instance i did jungle alistar this season and i did get him some tankiness but i focused on ap builds item 3725 item 3027 item 3285 item 3089

you cant pick gragas build full tank and expect to kill people. Get real! if you wanna kill people build damage and use your wards! In the new season now we start with 2 wards in the trinket and we also have warding jungle item that also gives 2 wards every time you visit the shop

Aheadatime2 votes

I see no problems here. You should try utilizing AS runes in your naut jng page. Too lazy to check if I use reds or quints atm, but AS really helps naut clear. Your W gives you alot of damage on your autos, which is obviously enhanced by your AS runes. Remember, your W acts as an auto reset, so always start a camp by auto, W, auto, E for max burst.

Hunters Talisman - If the passive stacks and doesn't reset itself, you'll be doing just fine in regards to sustain, given the AS runes.

Hunter's Machete - Not sure if lifesteal applies to your bonus magic damage on W, but even if it doesn't, lifesteal is actually not bad if you go with the AS runes. In combination with your W shield, you should be just fine. Not to mention the bonus damage on this item should proc lifesteal as well.

And not to mention, not all junglers are meant to clear the entire jng with 100% HP leftover. It's ok if naut gets beat up a bit by the jng. He makes up for that with incredible ganks, teamfight potential, and tankiness, all with a very respectable damage output if you combo his abilities properly.

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