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The Assassin rework @meddler with poll

I got shrekt··15 votes·70,439 views

So, I've recently seen on one of the forums from meddler saying that the assassins are getting a rework sometime in the near future, and I'd like to find out a few things about it from the community, and meddler himself.

  1. What is going to be changed on the Akali rework, or what is most likely going to be changed. (I've been playing Akali for a long time now and I feel that her burst damage is insane, which needs to be changed, but what makes her unique is that her ult can stick on to people really easily. Just an opinion from an Akali main

  2. What is going to be changed on Katarina? (For this one, I'm hoping a near full blown rework since her kit is just extremely, I don't know how to describe it.)

3)Are you going to tamper with Diana if at all? (Right now to me she seems like she's in quite a good spot right now and is pretty balanced, because in order to go in, you need to land your q, or be punished with doing basically no damage. Maybe change her ult and how it works with her q but I think that's all she needs.)

  1. How are you going to touch Zed if at all? (While I don't play much Zed, I think he's in a good spot right now, with a decent amount of counterplay, without being an underpowered snoozefest)

@Meddler and the community please respond

Thanks:)

159 Comments

RiotMeddler15 votes

Our current focus is immobile mages for the middle of the year. After that we'll be looking at which class to tackle next, with assassins being one of the ones shortlisted, along with initiating tanks and diving fighters. It'll be a couple of months at least before we commit to a class for that slot and whichever one we choose won't have changes shipping until around November. That means it's really, really early to be talking about details for any individual champion. If we were to tackle assassins though the biggest issues would be adding clearly different strengths to some of them and adding weaknesses that aren't just statistical (counterplay that's accessible to a wide range of enemies in particular).

DrCyanide9 votes

Can I suggest that when you do look at assassins, they have more to their play style than "get in, press all the buttons, get out"?

I personally consider Shaco a healthier assassin than Zed, because there's more to Shaco. Shaco's trying to outplay you, holding his E for your flash, trying to get you to be feared by a Jack in the Box, etc. Meanwhile Zed button mashes you to death, with whether you live or die depending on if you bought an item by that point in the game.

RiotMeddler15 votes

If we tackle assassins more distinct playstyles will be one of the big focuses, particularly for champions with excessively similar patterns like Talon, Kat and Akali.

Saeko242 votes

{quoted}

If we tackle assassins more distinct playstyles will be one of the big focuses, particularly for champions with excessively similar patterns like Talon, Kat and Akali.

Exactly the 3 assassins im interested in! :o Now im knda hyped. Just 9 months to wait! Easy.

Vamedoc2 votes

{quoted}

Exactly the 3 assassins im interested in! :o Now im knda hyped. Just 9 months to wait! Easy.

Like a child ayy lmao

Saeko241 votes

{quoted}

Like a child ayy lmao

I'm a child for being hyped, okay senpai. :(

Vamedoc4 votes

{quoted}

I'm a child for being hyped, okay senpai. :(

You did not catch my drift.

9 months

wait

child

ayy lmao like a real kid being born ayy!!

and the assassins will be born anew. or sumtin. change.

Saeko244 votes

{quoted}

You did not catch my drift.

ayy lmao like a real kid being born ayy!!

and the assassins will be born anew. or sumtin. change.

I want to die for being so dumb. <_<

Saintshing3 votes

It seems to me these 3 champions have fairly different play patterns. Talon excels at one shotting a single important target. Kat is good at cleaning up low health enemies. Akali has less initial burst than talon but she is better at chasing.

Iamawalrus2 votes

{quoted}

It seems to me these 3 champions have fairly different play patterns. Talon excels at one shotting a single important target. Kat is good at cleaning up low health enemies. Akali has less initial burst than talon but she is better at chasing.

The play pattern is "excessively similar" though: Acquire target -> pop onto target to do burst combo on top of target.

Iazy llama4 votes

The same with Zed, LeBlanc, Irelia, Fizz, Riven, etc. You literally described almost every assassin champion in the game.

gubigubi6 votes

I'd really love to see LeBlanc reworked to be more focused around her clones and being a deceiver instead of a burst assassin. I love her as she is now but I really wish she did more with her clone.

9Q1IMGTQP31 votes

I thought we wanted LESS shitty minigames?

As a LB main myself I wouldnt mind seeing changes to her kit allowing her more versatility while being less obnoxious to play against in lane but dont degrade another champion into a shitty mage (im looking at you Ahri )

macromite2 votes

keyword here is shitty. and clones are actually pretty fun if used correctly. imagine if lb always had a clone and if you used alt plus ability the clone used the ability. it would be interesting.

gubigubi5 votes

I don't think always having a clone but definitely more focused around her clones and using clones to trick the enemy player.

I'd really love to see her be able to transform into an identical copy of anyone in the game like how she can turn her self into other people in the lore. Would be so good.

Mirage Night2 votes

Any chance Eve would be on there?

Restrain1 votes

{quoted}

If we tackle assassins more distinct playstyles will be one of the big focuses, particularly for champions with excessively similar patterns like Talon, Kat and Akali.

I think Diana in particular should be left the way she is, she has a lot of intricate mechanics that make her really satisfying to play well (Q a minion in lane and R/E to it for initiation so that you get a free reset, setting up her passive before making a play, using R before Q even lands for faster initiation etc.). Her play pattern is a lot more balanced than Akali's R spam > enemy dies, or Katarina's mindless button mashing.

Cosnirak1 votes

I highly disagree. I think Diana is VERY similar to Akali. You press R twice instead of three times but do ever so slightly less damage in total. And you don't get bonus R uses for kills/assists (thank god!). But Diana can actually poke people out of lane. I wish Riot would delete both of them (ok fine, heavily rework them, and until that work is done, nerf them into unplayableness).

Before 6.3 Diana was probably the clear winner in terms of OPness between the two. After 6.3 Akali is still probably still behind Diana, but still good enough to be a giant pain in the ass once again.

Restrain2 votes

{quoted}

I highly disagree. I think Diana is VERY similar to Akali. You press R twice instead of three times but do ever so slightly less damage in total. And you don't get bonus R uses for kills/assists (thank god!). But Diana can actually poke people out of lane. I wish Riot would delete both of them (ok fine, heavily rework them, and until that work is done, nerf them into unplayableness).

Before 6.3 Diana was probably the clear winner in terms of OPness between the two. After 6.3 Akali is still probably still behind Diana, but still good enough to be a giant pain in the ass once again.

Diana is not similar to Akali, Akali is similar to Diana. Akali is the unhealthy version of Diana balance wise and needs to be reworked to be different to Diana, while Diana can maintain her current state of balance.

I don't understand why you call Diana OP, she's a melee assassin. If you can't play around her weaknesses (melee champ, catch her out and she's as good as dead, dodge Q and she's useless) then you're just bad.

Cosnirak3 votes

So your whole point is: "I like Diana. Anyone who thinks she needs any changes is dumb, bad, and wrong. Talking to me about Diana is pointless." Ok then. I'll try to remember that.

Restrain2 votes

{quoted}

So your whole point is: "I like Diana. Anyone who thinks she needs any changes is dumb, bad, and wrong. Talking to me about Diana is pointless." Ok then. I'll try to remember that.

Pretty obvious from your comments that you don't understand how balance works. When Akali is ahead in items and levels she has no counterplay; spam R and E until somebody dies, use W to escape, rinse and repeat. Meanwhile if Diana is ahead you still have the opportunity to dodge her Q and if she jumps you with just R she has no means of escape and can be collapsed on.

"press R twice instead of three times" does not make two champions identical and Diana's laning phase is not good. She can't escape ganks like Akali can with her W and she is gated by her mana costs while Akali can free farm from range with Q. And meanwhile tank Akali...

At least back up your points instead of trying to sound edgy and dismissive.

k1ngpie1 votes

just accept diana is op

TimeSaint1 votes

Diana= Tankier Akali with less dashes tbh built them the same =dmg but akali can do it faster and is scarier because she has a point in click mark and doesnt have to worry about landing a Q for her reset but if diana was to lane against here id give it to diana because she brings more utility and has shield to go with here burst

AMYS GRAVE5 votes

I would like to emphasize Dr.Cyanide's point that "Zed button mashes you to death, with whether you live or die depending on if you bought an item by that point in the game." I know you like to tout zed as the "healthy assassin" but his counterplay being buy this item or lose really isn't healthy.

La Bello7 votes

I consider Diana more of a fighter.

Katarina is absolutely awful. Even when her kit was first introduced people were unsure about it and not really excited for it.Shes pretty hilariously binary and toxic.Q>E>W all day no real options to handle close range threats.resourcless champion who throws 1000000X daggers at you inlane to bypass her melee shortcoming

Zed doesnt need a rework. Maybe some QoL like faster shurikens but not really. He comes and goes depending on the state of AD itemization and counter Items.

Akali definatly needs a rework. She outputs so much damage theres absolutely no hope of fighting of her and she has no problem sticking to people.shes completely useless in a teamfight thansk to all the vision trinkets and cheap pink wards. W should offer something different.Not only that but her sustain is absolutely RIDICULOUS.

By the way

how come you didnt mention Evelynn- an assassin that builds full tank and iniates for her team. yeah real assassin like >.>. Also her scalings are everywhere do I go AD because of Ravage or do I go AP because of scalings?(thats a trick question it doesnt matter what you build because youll still be able to instagib that marksmen)

Talon -Rengar tier levels of unfun. no real counterplay to being oneshotted in a split second sometimes even zhonyas isnt fast enough.The only thing gating him is his GODAWFUL laning phase.

Khazix -so hard to balance and turbulent. completely depedant of resets to do anything in a teamfight.is either useless or too strong.

Rengar - do I even need to say anything?stop beating around the bush and rework this bad kitty Ekko - another "assassin" who operates more like a soft iniator/fighter. MasterYi - another "assassin" who builds tank because the crit build is not attractive enough and on hit is so abusable(im talking aboutitem 3930 item 3742 item 3053 item 3124 item 3071 by passing his weaknesses ).Personally If you ask me Highlander should give less half attack speed and instead offer attack damage so people will stop with this on hit true damage BS(On normal Yi this wont change much as most crit yi's already builditem 3142 item 3046 ).

I got shrekt2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nicole Watterson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hP58JrgO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-17T00:15:40.948+0000)

I consider Diana more of a fighter.

Katarina is absolutely awful. Even when her kit was first introduced people were unsure about it and not really excited for it.

Zed doesnt need a rework. Maybe some QoL like faster shurikens but not really. He comes and goes depending on the state of AD itemization and counter Items.

Akali definatly needs a rework. She outputs so much damage theres absolutely no hope of fighting of her and she has no problem sticking to people.shes completely useless in a teamfight thansk to all the vision trinkets and cheap pink wards. W should offer something different.

By the way

how come you didnt mention Evelynn- an assassin that builds full tank and iniates for her team. yeah real assassin like >.>

Talon -Rengar tier levels of unfun. no real counterplay to being oneshotted in a split second

Khazix -so hard to balance and turbulent. completely depedant of resets to do anything in a teamfight.

Rengar - do I even need to say anything? Ekko - another "assassin" who operates more like a soft iniator/fighter MasterYi - another "assassin" who builds tank because the crit build is not attractive enough and on hit is so abusable(im talking aboutitem 3930 item 3742 item 3053 item 3124 item 3071 by passing his weaknesses ).

I didn't mention those because I was focusing on the ones that meddler had mentioned in the forums, but you make a good point. Those assasins definitely all need to be looked at, not necessarily changed but at least looked at

Extinction2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nicole Watterson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hP58JrgO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-17T00:15:40.948+0000)

I consider Diana more of a fighter.

Katarina is absolutely awful. Even when her kit was first introduced people were unsure about it and not really excited for it.

Zed doesnt need a rework. Maybe some QoL like faster shurikens but not really. He comes and goes depending on the state of AD itemization and counter Items.

Akali definatly needs a rework. She outputs so much damage theres absolutely no hope of fighting of her and she has no problem sticking to people.shes completely useless in a teamfight thansk to all the vision trinkets and cheap pink wards. W should offer something different.

By the way

how come you didnt mention Evelynn- an assassin that builds full tank and iniates for her team. yeah real assassin like >.>

Talon -Rengar tier levels of unfun. no real counterplay to being oneshotted in a split second

Khazix -so hard to balance and turbulent. completely depedant of resets to do anything in a teamfight.

Rengar - do I even need to say anything? Ekko - another "assassin" who operates more like a soft iniator/fighter MasterYi - another "assassin" who builds tank because the crit build is not attractive enough and on hit is so abusable(im talking aboutitem 3930 item 3742 item 3053 item 3124 item 3071 by passing his weaknesses ).

God didn't read so much shit for a long time. I hope Meddler overreads this.

TimeSaint1 votes

dont get on yi for building tank yi builds tank he gets nerfed from an already bad slow start but freaking yas! can go frozen force in just go 1v4 a whole team and yas already brings early bs swift dmg with a free shield! but please nerf yi tanks when we have a yas getting pentakills cause you thought baron wasnt warded

SnugglePuggle944 votes

One thing I will say, is Zed does not need faster shurikens.

DevlinCrow7 votes

Zed: "with a decent amount of counterplay"

xD

The amount of times, as Nautilus, I've used everything (ult+summoners included) to lock him down and he still gets away.

Fuck Zed.

TimeSaint1 votes

:l used ghost flash and mobies was by the dragon pit zed jus shadows far asf in the river flashes ults and then i got this weird grey screen glitch

SnugglePuggle944 votes

Zed is in a "good spot" with a "decent amount of counterplay"??????

He is in an AWFUL spot right now with LITTLE to NO counterplay. He is OVERPOWERED. He needs nerfs drastically.

Edit: Of course I'm being downvoted, mostly probably by Zed mains. Typical.

TotalJerk2 votes

You seem to not understand the difference between design health and balance health. Zed has loads of counterplay, he's just a little too strong with a power budget that is distributed in a fucked up way. What Zed really needs is a general re-tuning that rewards him more for risky play and weakens his safer options.

SnugglePuggle942 votes

Yea the "counterplay" is to buy a 3500 gold item that might not even defend us against him anyway. Real smart there.

1st Edition3 votes

hears news ... cries for Taric and Yorick I'm sorry you'll have to wait a bit longer.

ArlanKels3 votes

Diana doesn't need to be reworked. I personally think she's one of the "healthiest" champions in the game.

TheCherryOfDOOM3 votes

Everyone seems to forget that kassadin is an assassin, or even a champion at all. Personally I think he's in a pretty good spot right now, although I think his passive is almost useless , I really do hope he gets at least some attention when the ass as in rework comes around

TimeSaint1 votes

his ult is a flash and most of the time i see him he has the yas eff feed or carry idky but he ults in does his trick zonyas then insta dies or just got a double maybe he was stronger back in the day idk but i rarely see him

Mecha KhaZix2 votes

Zed's pretty fine compared to the other 3. Akali is, imo, worse off than Diana, but Katarina definitely has the most problematic kit out of those 4.

Zerokx2 votes

Katarina shouldn't be drastically changed. Let me explain:

As a Kat main, I particularly enjoy playing her. She's fast-paced, funny, and reliant on godlike reflexes if you want to be good with her. The problem with Kat is that her kit works very differently based on who are you playing against.

If you play against a newbie team, it's EXTREMELY EASY to carry with katarina. Smash all buttons, get da' pentakills! But if you play against good people, then it becomes EXTREMELY HARD.

This happens because Kat has two huge advantage points, and two huge disadvantage points. The multi-objective, high-damage R, along with the resets, are her best things, but her extreme weakness at early game and the fact that more than aproximatedly 2/3 of the champs of the game can stop her ult, are her biggest killers.

IMHO, kat needs more a buffing rework than a nerfing one. She has many abilities that shouldn't change after all, as they are her W and E. I'd change the Q to be a skillshot though, and to have a higher pop damage. Also, I'd slightly rework her R in a way you can focus somebody (you must have the mouse on them to make them more dmg), or being able to shunpo while in R to dodge skillshots.

So, I think you should have an eye in making the R more skillful, but also, more rewarding. Her Q could change a lot IMHO, in a way she can use it for better early farming and deal damage by going all-in, more than just throwing the Q away to poke like we Kats currently do.

I think another interesting thing to change, is to buff her W passive thingy, the MS speedup that you receive when using it on an enemy champion. But all the important is already said.

PapaGreg212 votes

Akali's burst damage can be insane if she snowballs but more often then not she just sucks right now. That is why she has been at 46-47 percent win rate for the last year, has disappeared from LCS play and has (for her) a low play rate. Anybody with a 75 gold pink ward can nullify her shroud and the range nerfs on her R as well as making e no longer proc her q have made her clunky. For every game that akali has 30 kills and can instaburst every champ, there are 2 or 3 games where she is getting beat down in lane and can't combo fast enough in her current state to pick up kills and get back into it. She probably needs a complete overhaul

MoonToonEx2 votes

I don't see Diana as an assassin. I believe Riot has her under the "Diver" group or w/e. Shes more of a fighter to me.

NsEternal2 votes

i dont want katarina to be reworked she just needs to be buffed slightly. people always cried about how broken she was but like i never had problems fighting her

Registeel12342 votes

Zed definitively need to be looked at and have some things changed. His damage output is fine, but his design is really unhealthy, as he's way too safe. If he could only go back if his target got killed, it would be cool (of course, he would need some buffs to compensate on his R, like a faster proc).

Right now, Zed is just anti-fun in most matches in midlane, with near to no weakness (can easely farm undertower, can easely waveclear minions, lots of safety when ganked and when assassinating, plenty of poke and harass in lane)

He's not broken, he just needs some tuning.

Moesnd2 votes

Honestly i would be really sad to see an akali rework.

Horny Monster2 votes

Do you guys think Shaco would get a rework? As a Shaco main. There's honestly a few things his kit needs improvement on. For example. His ult. If we compare it to Tibber ult from Annie. Tibber got a hefty buff, with improved AI. Meanwhile. Shaco's ult is almost useless. The clone will literally stop for no reason after chasing an opponent. Or it'll stop when it loses sight of said opponent. I feel like his boxes at higher levels need to have a decreased wait time for when they can activate. Two seconds is okay, and all. But it makes setting up a gank kind of difficult on highly mobile champions. Shaco's all about the surprise effect. If his boxes don't activate in time for a gank. Then why place them down?

Arckaren1 votes

I have the same opinion, I main Shaco too, I love this champion but he's too much out of meta, he's kind of useless nowadays, in my opinion, he needs a rework : of his abilities and of his appearence, his splash arts.... because all of these things are kind of old

TimeSaint1 votes

its either you invade the enemy jg (predictable) snowball early camp the fuck outta bot in drag them down or fade outta the game in lose because you fell off

Thousand Minus 72 votes

I would say Katarina will need a rework because at the moment she is not the best champion or the worst because, how weak she is at early game, then she is a monster in late game but, if you buff her The Katarina mains (A good Katarina players ) will take advantage of how good she will be in early game then might just snowball the game but on the other hand, it will be much easier to play for them people who is starting to play her.If you nerf her she will be really weak in early game and it will be harder for the new player to play Katarina also it will be really hard or the good players to snowball the game!

Thank you for reading! My opinion from a Katarina main(i am still bad as her :D)

TimeSaint1 votes

so many champs in the game can just insta stop her ult even raka now thats saying a lot its hard to really pick kat because as soon as u do you know your laning will be shit your Q doesnt do enough poke even though its free you need ludens for it to shine your ult is really all you have and if a thresh flays you or any support with a mouse doesnt die instantly to you your gonna have a bad time

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