Kha'Zix, a Champion so Close to Viability (but not quite)

KhaZix Bot··50 votes·6,950 views

Yeah, sorry, this is going to be a long one. Stick around to the end and there will be a reward... sort of?

So, this probably won't come as a surprise to most people who actually played Kha'Zix for a reason other than that he was flavour of the month for a pretty ridiculous amount of time, but Kha'Zix is in an interesting place. For the most part, he's outclassed by other attack damage melees like Zed and Talon in mid lane. As for jungle, he has to deal with being almost all around inferior to Lee Sin and Jarvan IV. However, he isn't really that far off from being a good pick. I'll explain why, but first we'll have to elaborate on what makes him a weak pick.

Kha'Zix is a team reliant champion. I know what you're thinking... "Yeah, so is _______!". Mhm, you're right. There are a lot of team reliant champions in the game, and a lot of them can still be really good. Now here's the thing... Kha'Zix isn't just team reliant, he's also "enemy stupidity" reliant. That's right. I said it when he was broken and I'll say it again now; if you get caught in isolation, especially now since it's so easy to negate, that's your own fault. Sure, a Kha'Zix can max/evolve Void Spike (and butcher his early damage output) and build Ravenous Hydra to clear a wave. Contrary to popular belief, that rarely destroys the entire wave. If a single minion is still alive even remotely close to you, he has no isolation. This isn't even bringing in to it the fact that if Kha'Zix max/evolved Void Spike, he likely won't be evolving Taste Their Fear until last, as Leap is 100% necessary for team fighting. What does that mean? You're not getting hit for a 700 damage non evolved Taste Their Fear.

The point is, provided the enemy team is competent, Kha'Zix needs his team to create isolation for him during team fights. One of the most important things I teach players new to Kha'Zix is that if you can't get a kill/assist to reset your Leap, wait until you can. If you don't have isolation, odds are you aren't doing any meaningful damage and you're just going to die. Isolation is nigh impossible to get if the enemy team is dedicated to negating it. The area of isolation negation is so disgustingly large that a loose group formation should keep Kha'Zix at bay. If he jumps in without isolation, he has no idea what he's doing, just kill him. This is what separates Kha'Zix from other team reliant champions. Take Yasuo, for example. Yasuo becomes a monster with a proper team. However, skilled Yasuo players can still get off their own built in knock up. Is it easy? No. Is it possible? Yes. That is where the skill aspect comes from. As for Kha'Zix, if the enemy wants to negate your isolation, that's too bad for you. Even if you could manage to clear a wave and get isolation that way, there is nothing you can do against two enemies huddling up together. Kha'Zix's skill modifier is dwarfed by his enemy's incompetence modifier. Can he dominate a game full of 900 ELO players who don't know how to deal with isolation? Sure, but that should not be the bracket that this game is balanced around.

Alright, we've identified the problem, now where is the solution? Well, that's where it gets tricky. There are a few small things that could be done to make Kha'Zix a solid pick without breaking him (again). The first step is pinpointing Kha'Zix's identity as a champion. After between 2,500 and 3,000 games on the champion over all (adding up to a percentage of my life as in game time higher than I'd like to admit), here is what Kha'Zix is to me. Kha'Zix is a high burst, single target assassin notable for his reset and ability to evolve to meet the needs of the game, and is reliant on his Q for his main source of damage (but if you evolve Void Assault, you're wasting an evolution point, joke's on you). Notice what I didn't include there? Utility support, tank, offtank. Why didn't I include those things? Because that isn't what Kha'Zix is supposed to be. Watching season four Kha'Zix play was painful, be it the tank nonsense or the Void Spike 50% slow jungle spam (as far as I'm concerned, LCS players did not pick Kha'Zix, they picked Void Spikes at the end of season four).

Kha'Zix's role as an assassin needs to be cemented firmly. Players should be waiting for the opportunity to go up close and, if playing well, be able to eviscerate a squishy carry in the blink of an eye, all the while putting himself in harm's way to accomplish the task. His survivability should come from evasiveness, not the ability to just tank out whatever retaliatory damage he takes. The pinnacle of his evasiveness is achieved after earning a kill or assist, resetting his Leap. This means that Kha'Zix's kill potential inherently effects his survivability in a team fight (beyond the basic "I killed that guy before he killed me so now I can live"). However, as has been stated before, it isn't easy. Doing this relies on your enemy making a fatal error or your team displacing your target and creating isolation for you. These are both things that your mechanical prowess can not effect, unlike nearly any other champion in the game.

What can be done to make that better? Well, to start, there's a small change that could go a long way. Riot often talks about clarity. The clarity policy is good. It's always a plus when you know what's going on. So, what does this have to do with Kha'Zix? Isolation. As you know (I hope), Taste Their Fear alerts Kha'Zix and his target as to the fact that they are isolated. What you might not know is that the isolation bonus is calculated on damage application rather than cast. This means that you can make a high speed assassination play on a marked isolated target, just to have them step into the massive range of isolation negation mid Taste Their Fear cast. Now you're sitting in a terrible position with no reset, all because your attack did pitiful damage. If isolation was calculated on ability cast rather than damage application, it would allow Kha'Zix to be more confident in his assassinations. Yes, the calculation on damage works both ways. An enemy who was saw themselves as not isolated could step into isolation during the split second cast and die. However, that just serves the underlying point that the marker is unreliable and could easily be fixed by this change, leading to far less frustration for both parties and rewards for playing Kha'Zix intelligently and making fast decisions.

Of course, many players also view the range nerf to isolation as overkill, and I agree. While reverting it completely back to previous values could be dangerous, there should be room to make isolation a bit easier to obtain. Combining an isolation range based buff with the aforementioned change to when the bonus damage is calculated could be enough to nudge Kha'Zix into a solid position without making him overpowered (again... again). Of course, there are numerous other balance ideas that could be used along with the damage calculation change to reward Kha'Zix for playing like an assassin and give him a more reliable damage source.

For one, a potential change to Evolved Void Spikes that allows it to act more like Graves's buckshot could help cement Kha'Zix's identity. What I mean by this is, say one spike hits the target... It would do damage lower than live value. However, if two or three hit the target, the damage would increase to higher than live values. Anyone familiar with the champions knows that the only real way to hit an enemy with multiple void spikes would be to get close, rewarding a traditional melee assassin play style. An additional change could be made to the healing factor, allowing it to also scale with multiple void spikes in a similar fashion to the damage, granting him some extra survivability without including damage reduction (like his old ultimate). A compensatory nerf to Void Spike would be to decrease the slow, discouraging the detrimental Void Spike utility spam technique that made him an eyesore in season four.

Another place where some changes could be made that would impact Kha'Zix's game play in conjunction with some of the other proposed power shifts (likely not "make or break" alone) would be his passive. Changing the ability power scale to an attack damage scale and the magic damage to physical damage could hurt his early lane and ganks a bit (since the magic damage isn't decreased by the armour runes and early armour items players run against Kha'Zix in lane), but allowing the bonus damage to be effected by armour penetration could benefit him in the long run. The scale may need to be increased slightly in addition.

Leap is also an area that could be tweaked. To start, the attack damage scale nerf on Leap is the only change that I can outright say was completely unnecessary. I understand that "a long range gap closer with a reset shouldn't do a lot of damage", but that's just the thing, it still never really did. This seems more like a "hey look we did something" change that doesn't really belong anymore. Of course, as I mentioned earlier, some of these proposed changes would need to go hand in hand with compensatory nerfs and that is only to be expected. One thing that I've never really liked about Leap is that it resets off assists. This seems to reinforce the utility/tank play style that Kha'Zix was not designed around. Kha'Zix should be viewed as a hyper carry assassin and should have to make important decisions when team fighting. "Do I want to take this kill and use it to hunt down the escaping enemies or do I want to give this shut down to the ADC?". The decisions would have to be fast, as of course, your likely team isn't going to wait while you stand around like an idiot contemplating life as a giant purple insect, but that's part of being a good player; thinking on your feet.

A combination of the changes I have listed here (or other ideas altogether) could be just enough to push Kha'Zix, a champion bordering on the edge of consistent playability, in to a good position without making him overpowered (again, again, again). What ideas do you have that could make Kha'Zix viable again?

Oh, and here's that thing I mentioned at the start for sticking around until the end. Yeah, I drew it by hand, I suck at computer art. I also suck at colouring, go figure. It's Cell Kha'Zix.

TL;DR-

Kha'Zix is too reliant on the enemy team being bad and not reliant enough on being a skilled player. A few small changes could help. Also he needs a Cell skin since they're pretty much the same and legend has it that they share a voice actor.

80 Comments

DevilishMetal14 votes

Ah, thank you. I wish everyone's feedback was like this instead of "X OP pls nerf rito". I admire you for taking the time to create constructive and valuble feedback.

Not only that, but your ability to think agead of what changes might do is better than most. Nice job on that too.

With those things being said, I agree with the proposed changes here, but I would like to bring up another aspect of Kha'zix, being his survivability at melee range due to Void Spike. However, this is dangerous ground. Void Spike is Kha'zix's ONLY form of jungle sustain until you get lifesteal. However, I feel like the current state of the heal contributes to the playability of tank Kha'zix.

So what are your thoughts on his survivability? What is a healthy change that could be made that would give him sustain without tempation to go tanky?

Just my opinion :) Have a great day kind sir.

KhaZix Bot4 votes

The thing is that, aside from life steal, almost any form of sustain will start to sway players into a tanky play style, unless of course they're a support. One option that stands out to me would be to make the heal scale off of something that Kha'Zix can actually build, but not a tank stat. The most obvious solution would be making the heal scale off of attack damage, but that scares me as well. It becomes similar to the effective health argument with Riven's shield. It begs the question- Can a champion have offensive and defensive scales off of the same stat and be balanced? Riven and Nidalee are both examples of champions who have been problematic because of this before. The scale would have to be low enough that it wasn't overbearing, but high enough that it would be worth building the attack damage over going tanky and saying "well I have this sustain, I'll just combine it with tankiness and all in mindlessly".

It's good that you brought that up. It shows that maybe the heal could even be replaced with something else all together. Maybe a very short duration shield that adds more protection the more spikes hit a target up close. The short duration aspect being critical to keeping him out of tank territory. But of course, that would potentially damage his jungle clear even more. This whole thing reminds me of how I used to run spell vamp before the season five changes. A late game isolated Taste Their Fear would return a fair amount of health and early on it allowed Kha'Zix to keep healing even when he couldn't auto for life steal during his Q cast. Maybe there is something there worth looking in to?

And thank you, I'm always happy when I see people seriously talking about balance. It's good to try and contribute to it every once and a while!

Visigoth5 votes

I would just like to see the Evolved Q execute back (hey, if Lee gets his, KZ should get his when he puts his evolution into it) to compensate for his absolute crap damage when people aren't isolated. Second they need to give me a legit reason to evolve R instead of looking cooler. The other evolutions all make sense.

Q - Damage W - Utility E - Mobility and Reset R - 3rd charge of useless invis that 90% of the time is just used for passive and the speed up.

Spacesuit Spiff5 votes

Well put. First off, I want him to have his execute back, because jumping around a teamfight executing people was fun. Second, maybe have evolved Q no longer take minions into account? Then he can at least kill split pushers.

What he seems to do best lategame is jump on the carry that's late to the objective fight, but that's completely dependent on that situation happening and Kha being able to khapitalize on it.

In terms of macro play, I'd like to see him become a risky snowball jungler (he already is, but right now the reward isn't nearly worth the risk).

KhaZix Bot2 votes

You're most certainly right about the risk reward/ratio. I think ThePlasticSpork hit this on the head, too. It takes so much more to make a Kha'Zix meaningfully impactful compared to any meta jungler (and even a lot of the not-so-meta ones).

It seems a lot of people would prefer to have Kha'Zix's execute back. I didn't bring this up because I have surprisingly had a favourable experience with the new flat increase on evolved taste their fear (if only damage wise). When you talk about the execute, do you mean it should be added on to the flat increase or replace it all together?

As for the Evolved Taste Their Fear no longer calculating minions into isolation, I'm worried that might be a bit excessive. Though, I have thought that maybe Evolving the ability should make isolation easier to obtain range wise if the balance team would be unwilling to give a more reasonable base isolation range to start with.

Oh, and +1 for "Khapitalize".

ThePlasticSpork5 votes

If you ask me, most of Kha'Zix' problems are early game related. He has an extremely skewed risk/reward pattern - VERY high risk early, with low amounts of reward unless the enemies are poor warders and not playing well. Compared to Kha'Zix, the current meta junglers are all very LOW risk, with HIGH reward.

Compared to Vi, Jarvan, Rek'Sai, Lee Sin, and even several tank junglers, Kha'Zix is, in every way, inferior early, ESPECIALLY pre-6. Kha'Zix does less damage in his ganks than all of these champions - even with isolation bonus.

If any of these champions invade Kha'Zix, his early damage is so weak and his clear so poor that even with isolation, every single one of those junglers will destroy Kha if they find him in his jungle. I find it somewhat amusing that a fearsome creature with an ability called "Taste Their Fear" has to run with his tail between his legs if he sees anyone else in the jungle, even if thematically and logically, 1 v 1 fights in the jungle should be where he thrives. If you ask me, if someone tries to 1 v 1 Kha in his jungle, Kha should rip their stupidly isolated ass into ribbons. Instead, early game isolation damage amounts to hitting someone with a slightly stiff noodle rather than a completely wet one. Pitiful.

Kha'Zix doesn't have as much crowd control as any of those champions, so not only does he do less damage in his ganks, he doesn't have as much lockdown as the meta junglers do.

Finally, his clear is much, much, MUCH worse than all of those champions - to the point where I find clearing the jungle as tanks a cakewalk compared to clearing with Kha'Zix.

This establishes a very high risk play pattern. He's very dependent on snowballing, but everything in the game is set against him from the getgo. He's much less likely to snowball than any other snowball champion in the game.

If Kha somehow circumvents this and gets really fed, his reward isn't anywhere nearly as huge as a much less fed Vi or Jarvan. I would much rather have, say, an 0/0/1 Vi on my team than a 5/0/0 Kha'Zix, which says a lot about how skewed his risk/reward is.

I would personally like to see much of his early game risk reduced. Improve his jungle clear and maybe buff his unisolated Q damage so that some people might have to think twice about fighting Kha'Zix isolated.

KhaZix Bot2 votes

It's true that many of his problems stem from early game. Juggernaut628 also mentioned his base armour which is part of this. When we compare him to other junglers early, there's a troubling trend. Like you pointed out, they're over all low risk champions that are rewarded heavily for, well, not much of anything. This just seems to be a nature of the jungle right now, which shows that the problem is greater than just Kha'Zix.

I remember when Renekton was the unmatched king of top lane, Riot introduced their "Renekton Bar" doctrine. It essentially said that instead of nerfing Renekton, they would buff other top laners to be on par with him. Right now the jungle is dominated by Vi, Lee Sin, and Jarvan IV. Jarvan was hit and is still strong, and now Vi is taking an early game hit as well. As for Lee Sin, I'll just concede that Lee Sin is Lee Sin and will always be Lee Sin no matter how strong Lee Sin is or what happens to Lee Sin. Now, instead of driving those champions into the ground, they're buffing tank junglers.

That's all fine and good, but now we have Kha'Zix who remains in a terrible position without any light at the end of the tunnel (at least for now). Whenever I see members of the balance team talking about "assassin junglers" being too good, I wonder... do they still think Kha'Zix is one of them? It almost seems it, as he was nerfed fairly recently. If so, that's a big part of the problem. It needs to be made clear that just because champions who fit the same role as Kha'Zix are good junglers right now does not mean that he is a good jungler right now and everyone else should be buffed while he gets left behind. It's a slippery slope.

Like you said, it just seems like he's all around worse than any of the current meta junglers. What does he have on them? A reset that doesn't matter if he can't get a kill (or at least live long enough to participate in one).

Juggernaut6284 votes

Honestly, the problem is more how squishy he is. Without being a bruiser, Kha'Zix has no health and dies fast to the jungle and enemy laners. I think Kha'Zix needs base armor buffs so that he doesn't die as fast as Sona in a 1v5. That's an exaggeration obviously. They should both die fast in a 1v5.

KhaZix Bot3 votes

You're definitely right, his base stats are also certainly an issue. While at level one he doesn't have the worst armour in the game (at 24, mid-low compared to other champions), his level eighteen armour is atrocious at 75, on par with Miss Fortune. They need to be tweaked a bit, but I'm skeptical of him being fixed off of just base stat changes, if nothing else just because his damage is still unreliable against opponents who pay attention and there isn't a terrible amount he can do to change this.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

The ironic thing about that is that MF is (Excluding Graves' passive) she's actually the tankiest ADC in the game.

KhaZix Bot1 votes

While that may be true overall, she has some of the lowest base armour at level eighteen in the game. 75 is pretty close to the bottom of the barrel for this one. Caitlyn has 82, Ashe 79, Draven 82, etc..

SchneidRpro4 votes

I think because khazix is a reset assassin, I think giving him the tools to 100 to 0 someone in one go if their isolated isnt his playstyle.

His current playstyle is:

Is the target isolated? NO --> dont jump in Is the target isolated? YES --> Q for 1000 damage and auto hydra proc dead.

I would rather him have to use his ulti to wait out his cooldowns to 100 to 0 someone instead of just killing them in one go. As he is more of a duelist assassin not a full on burst like talon.

I think they should change his un evolved base damage and shift it higher, then when evolved add a considerable missing hp multiplier, (with the extra aa range and q range of course).

I also think his passive should scale with AD but still do magic damage, so he still has a reason to weave his autos in between his ulti.

Partholonian4 votes

One thing that I've never really liked about Leap is that it resets off assists.

I agree with a lot of the rest of what you said, but not this part. Have you considered how it would play out if Leap didn't reset off assists? There you are, diving the enemy Kog'maw, while at the same time, Lux ults through the whole enemy team. Kog'maw dies, yay! You did your job as an assassin. But you didn't get the last hit. So you don't get your reset and you're caught in the enemy team and die.

That would feel pretty awful, wouldn't it? And wouldn't you be tempted to blame Lux for your death, even though she was doing something that ought to be (and feel) good by hitting multiple enemies with her ult?

A similar situation could apply with Rumble ult, Vel'koz ult, Cass poisons, a dead Karthus, etc., you get the idea.

Kill-only resets are too susceptible to being screwed over by your teammates -- and not even because they were trolling, but just because they were fighting and killing their enemies, your enemies, which you are supposed to try to kill together, as a team.

Draven's kill-only passive is bad enough for creating bad feelings and toxicity, but at least it doesn't literally kill him to get an assist (though you'd never guess that by listening to some Draven players).

ProfDrDeath1 votes

What one could think about is give it the Katarina treatment for assists - instead of having the whole assist timer count, have Leap only reset if Kha did damage to the target in the last 3 seconds before its death.

But I am not even sure he needs that kind of a nerf for now - I'd rather have everyone wait for the next patch, which will lead to a slew of changes in the jungle landscape, between Cinderhulk and Gromp/Raptors doing less damage.

Kuroi863 votes

There are a number of possibilities when it comes to Kha'Zix, but honestly you're looking at a small scale rework.

One of the best ideas I've considered is allowing an enemy that is hit by Void spikes to be marked for isolated Q, another possibility is allowing your ult to proc your next Q to deal isolation damage to the next enemy. You could turn Void spikes into a mini Akali shroud that gives him a small ar/mr buff for a couple of seconds if used at close range to increase survivability. You could have hitting your passive on a target give you a % bonus damage on your next AA or ability. Heck you could move the reset from his jump to his ult, slightly less mobile, but much more assassin like imo.

Olath Quortek3 votes

Honestly I didn't read all of it... and I don't play Kha... or really know jack about him other than I have a buddy that has played him in the past... But I did read the part about the isolation check and I know that the isolation issue has always been my buddy's biggest complaint... So while reading it occurred to me that the fact that his isolation bonus damage is all or nothing is really kind of stupid... Like I love that part of his kit thematically: He's just so deadly that if you don't have a friend nearby to help you out you're already eviscerated... but how "near" is "nearby" or should I say how "isolated" is "isolated?" A friend within arms reach is obviously in a much better position to help than a friend a couple of strides away... So why doesn't Kha's bonus isolation damage scale with the actual distance between the target and their nearby allies? O.o

KhaZix Bot2 votes

This is a potentially brilliant idea and I love it. Now, thee question would be, will "max range isolation" deal more than it does on live? Or will the fact that you can get isolation at a closer range be justification enough? This is something I want to touch on more.

Olath Quortek1 votes

Well... I honestly put zero thought into numbers and how the damage on it should change if this change we're to happen so... I'ma answer your question with a shrug and let somebody much smarter and number/balance savvy figure that one out... XD I guess in my mind I was mostly comparing it to Nid spears... Ridiculous damage amplification at max range, or utter isolation in Kha's case, to little to no amplification at close range... Like when that Braum see's you coming in and jumps directly on top of the carry you were about to tear to shreds to deflect most of your damage with his Mustache... Although I could also see it having 3 or 4 different damage modifiers, an isolation tier if you will. No ally in sight? Dead meat... Can see a friend but they really aren't that close? Well the squishy is still mostly dead but you might have to throw a bit more at em... Friends close enough to get there before you can quite finish gutting him? Meh damage increase... Braum's Mustache is in the way? (Melee AA range maybe) Ehh... you get base damage buddy... So still mostly shrug... Just a thought... :3

FesperateDucker1 votes

Why not calculate it the same way they did hydra in the most recent patch? Hydra's aoe damage is now calculated based on a 3 tier ring. The center being the most damage and the outer being the least. Maybe if iso damage ring wass done in a ring tier system in a similar fashion it would work.

Messaiga2 votes

Kha'Zix would be a really cool champion if gimmicky stuff like spam W poke and Tanky Kha weren't existing things. I never actually knew about when the Isolation was calculated, so that's good to know. It'd be nice to have assassin junglers just as playable as tanks will be next patch (tanks are going to be very enjoyable in 5.5 from what I can tell).

Poptart Evelynn2 votes

I agree on some stuff and highly disagree on other things. But overall it's good feed back.

My input though is that I q/e/r evolve right now and do very well with it but the moment I face 2-3 tanks I'm fucked.

KhaZix Bot1 votes

That's fair enough. Experiences are subjective and all. Just out of curiosity, what is it about Evolved Void Assault that makes you choose it over Evolved Void Spikes? Do you feel that it's key to his identity?

Poptart Evelynn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KhaZix Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAAhP4c4,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-03-04T12:02:57.000+0000)

That's fair enough. Experiences are subjective and all. Just out of curiosity, what is it about Evolved Void Assault that makes you choose it over Evolved Void Spikes? Do you feel that it's key to his identity?

I play Kha as an assassin. I rush straight damage and aim for isolation picks. Evolved R allows me to sit in stealth and/or reposition onto another target for when my cooldown on q will be back up. I don't build any defensive items so the evolved R late game is extremely important. I kill most targets in 1-2 rotations. Since I have max cdr on my set up I have 2.1 second cd on Q and stealth is 3 seconds when evolved. Evolved R also allows you to reuse passive 3 times. I feel like evolved R is extremely core to his identity when building straight damage.

My main focus early game is setting up duels with enemy jungle early on because not a single jungler can handle kha 1v1 early game. With evolved q level 6 and a warrior I can solo drag with a pink because most people have no clue he can solo it. At that same point I can 1v1 anyone in the entire game with ease. Only takes 2 q's and an auto attack to kill most people at that point with isolation.

item 3723 item 3117 item 3074 item 3035 item 3071 item 3508 item 2140 is my normal one shot build. (5% cdr runes, 5% cdr masteries so that I have 40% cdr with this build)

I never use evolve spikes and feel they are useless to me. I have no clue how someone would play kha straight damage without evolving R tbh. I feel like I require it late game.

Btw I added my current ranked stats below to show that I do very well with him right now. I do not like your current idea of making him revolve around his spikes though.

Räd1 votes

So, I don't own Kha'zix, but in the last rotation, I found him an interesting to play champion, and was truly not sure how he would fair in Season 5, and I gave him a try. Needless to say.. I played him in the mid lane, as a situational pick against ap mages, and even assasins like Fizz, and Leblanc, and I did quite well. Note that I feel as though I have the ability to play like a high silver player (As I climbed that ladder in S4), but am currently in a Bronze elo, so my decision making is most likely a whole lot better than theirs. In most matchups where I played Kha'zix mid as a burst assasin with maxing W first, I did well. I also chose to just build a sort of Assasin like, sustain champ with a lot of lifesteal. I opted more for blowing someone up with my full rotation, and a few autos with Hydra active than sustaining enough for a full 2 skill rotation combo.

In terms of priority, this is how I played my Kha'zix almost every game, but builds and all of that are subject to the game you're playing at the time.

Level 1; W Level 2; Q (Or E) depending on who the enemy jungler was Level 3; Another point in W Level 4; The remaining skill I did not level. Level 5; W Level 6; R (Evolved W) Level 7; W Level 8; Q Level 9; W is Maxed by this point.

I would then continue to start maxing Q, and evolving E by my Level 2 Ult, and my last evolution point would be put in R. I havent really experienced Evolving Q because I never had to, and the Reset on E is just a little too valuable not to evolve.

This is my end game build; item 3074 item 3117 item 3035 item 3072 item 3508 item 3031

You may be looking at the Hydra, and wondering (Why TF would you get that over something else?) As I mentioned, I wanted whoever I was locked onto, to explode with 1 rotation. Sometimes I chose not to build the Infinity Edge, and build a item 3026

For such little knowledge of this champion, I felt I was building quite okay, and I feel like I played him quite okay.

KhaZix Bot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=So Radical,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAAhP4c4,comment-id=0006000000000001,timestamp=2015-03-04T17:12:28.032+0000)

So, I don't own Kha'zix, but in the last rotation, I found him an interesting to play champion, and was truly not sure how he would fair in Season 5, and I gave him a try. Needless to say.. I played him in the mid lane, as a situational pick against ap mages, and even assasins like Fizz, and Leblanc, and I did quite well. Note that I feel as though I have the ability to play like a high silver player (As I climbed that ladder in S4), but am currently in a Bronze elo, so my decision making is most likely a whole lot better than theirs. In most matchups where I played Kha'zix mid as a burst assasin with maxing W first, I did well. I also chose to just build a sort of Assasin like, sustain champ with a lot of lifesteal. I opted more for blowing someone up with my full rotation, and a few autos with Hydra active than sustaining enough for a full 2 skill rotation combo.

In terms of priority, this is how I played my Kha'zix almost every game, but builds and all of that are subject to the game you're playing at the time.

Level 1; W Level 2; Q (Or E) depending on who the enemy jungler was Level 3; Another point in W Level 4; The remaining skill I did not level. Level 5; W Level 6; R (Evolved W) Level 7; W Level 8; Q Level 9; W is Maxed by this point.

I would then continue to start maxing Q, and evolving E by my Level 2 Ult, and my last evolution point would be put in R. I havent really experienced Evolving Q because I never had to, and the Reset on E is just a little too valuable not to evolve.

This is my end game build; item 3074 item 3117 item 3035 item 3072 item 3508 item 3031

You may be looking at the Hydra, and wondering (Why TF would you get that over something else?) As I mentioned, I wanted whoever I was locked onto, to explode with 1 rotation. Sometimes I chose not to build the Infinity Edge, and build a item 3026

For such little knowledge of this champion, I felt I was building quite okay, and I feel like I played him quite okay.

I'm more curious about the Infinity Edge, actually. Hydra is pretty standard for most Kha'Zix players. Might I suggest trying a Mercurial Scimitar over an IE? I used to use a somewhat similar build.

Räd1 votes

That was actually a typo. I meant to say Infinity Edge there.

MaizeCraze2 votes

One thing I disliked about the isolation change is that Riot completely ignored the fact that isolation is an area, not a distance. By increasing the range of isolation by 43% (500 from 350), they increased the area by 104%. That's ludicrous. A 43% increase in area would be a range increase to approximately 419, rounded to 425 for simplicity's sake.

KhaZix Bot2 votes

That's right. Thank you for bringing this up. The isolation change was the pinnacle of a small change done to avoid making greater changes, just to stick around when large changes were made anyway and that ended up becoming overkill.

MaizeCraze2 votes

[{quoted}](name=KhaZix Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAAhP4c4,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2015-03-05T02:09:55.788+0000)

The isolation change was the pinnacle of a small change done to avoid making greater changes, just to stick around when large changes were made anyway and that ended up becoming overkill.

Another bone I have to pick is the cooldown between re-stealthing. Riot increased it to 2 from 1 because of Kha's 50% damage reduction on evo'd R. The sole purpose that justified the re-stealth nerf was removed, and yet the CD wasn't changed back. I have no idea why.

AnOstrichWithPMS1 votes

just play rengar

KhaZix Bot11 votes

Get that blasphemy out of here.

Glaedonx1 votes

Great job keeping up with the thread OP. I just thought I'd throw my two cents in quickly during my lunch break.

I used to love Kha in the beginning of last season. He was so much fun to play to me because of his "stalk and destroy" play style. I had a blast playing him mid and even more when I moved to jungle. He was the first champion that I didn't dread jungling with. I even started to main it for a while when I was playing him.

Anyway. I always had the idea Khazix's playstyle being about stalking a target and pouncing at the right moment. Isolation is a big key in this, but I feel like his invisibility was always a bit lackluster. I always thought that a cool way to boost his early-mid game would be to change his Ult to allow longer stealth duration when in the vicinity of an isolated target. This way if you see the enemy jungler doing blue alone, you can sneak up on him without having to blow your only escape (E) in the process in case you don't get the kill. It also adds to the stalker identity that I always like to play him.

I have varying success with Kha right now. I haven't played very many jungle games, since I play mainly support now.. I always say that if Kha is relatively viable that he is probably my favorite champion. It can just be so painful to play him when he's behind most other junglers.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Perhaps they could have it so Kha gets a movespeed boost when moving towards isolated targets?

KhaZix Bot1 votes

In conjunction with some other smaller changes, I think this could be huge to putting Kha'Zix in a good spot again. It's definitely a solid "building block" to stack with some others and create a solid long term fix.

KhaZix Bot1 votes

Now here is an idea that could carry some weight.

This begs the question, if isolated targets had an area around them (we'll call it "the ambush zone"), could there potentially be more benefits that Kha'Zix gains for moving in on them? SpecterVonBaren brought up the idea of a movement speed increase toward isolated targets, which is another idea that could be put to use. Now I'm curious as to how many bonuses he could gain when ambushing isolated targets (that either increase his damage directly or make is easier to get to them) without breaking him?

If champions have a feature that's core to them in the same way isolation is to Kha'Zix, you can usually feel its impact on more than one ability, no?

Glaedonx1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KhaZix Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAAhP4c4,comment-id=000d0001,timestamp=2015-03-05T00:58:59.607+0000)

Now here is an idea that could carry some weight.

This begs the question, if isolated targets had an area around them (we'll call it "the ambush zone"), could there potentially be more benefits that Kha'Zix gains for moving in on them? SpecterVonBaren brought up the idea of a movement speed increase toward isolated targets, which is another idea that could be put to use. Now I'm curious as to how many bonuses he could gain when ambushing isolated targets (that either increase his damage directly or make is easier to get to them) without breaking him?

If champions have a feature that's core to them in the same way isolation is to Kha'Zix, you can usually feel its impact on more than one ability, no?

Well.. I do believe that isolation is a very core feature to Kha'Zix.. But at the same time, too many bonuses to isolation will make him so strong that being caught alone is a Garen teed death sentence. I think it would be dangerous to make too many additions to isolation.. I also think that he needs to have a bit more strength vs. un-isolated targets as well. He doesn't really do anything to people if they are near an ally/minion/tower.

The only reason that I suggested an elongated ult time (and I thought quite possibly that this is only available on using the first charge, or maybe upon upgrading your ult) is because it adds to the hunter feeling. When I think of a predator stalking it's pray, I think of it moving quietly to sneak up on it and pouncing, not sprinting at it full-speed to give away it's position.

Just my two cents! I love this thread I hope it gets some attention from Rito.

manbearswine1 votes

One quick question though: if he's close to viability(even though by the comparison to vi/lee/j4,I'm guessing viability=top tier),aren't resources better allocated to things which are well...not so close to viability?

Poptart Evelynn3 votes

{quoted}

One quick question though: if he's close to viability(even though by the comparison to vi/lee/j4,I'm guessing viability=top tier),aren't resources better allocated to things which are well...not so close to viability?

The problem is his viability is due to the enemy being bad. If you're facing good players then Kha sucks in most cases.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kawaii Kha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAAhP4c4,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2015-03-04T22:46:30.154+0000)

The problem is his viability is due to the enemy being bad. If you're facing good players then Kha sucks in most cases.

That's still a better state than most champions.

Poptart Evelynn1 votes

{quoted}

That's still a better state than most champions.

Regardless Kha only needs simple tweaks vs a whole rework like other champions.

KhaZix Bot1 votes

As Kawaii Kha stated, he has problems for the wrong reasons.

The reason I believe this should be a higher priority is that Riot works with their own risk/reward system when prioritizing changes. They've touched on this when talking about visual updates before. They ask questions like "How easy would it be to do ______?" combined with the ever important "If we do _______, how much of a positive impact will it carry?".

So to answer your question, Riot's balance department should be sure to allocate time to fixing his problems because-

1.) It seems that there may be a quick, easy fix that would have a positive effect on the overall state of the game (more viable picks are always important).

2.) There's a lot of time being spent on the jungle right now, and it needs to be addressed before he gets left behind. Like I said before, I'm fairly worried that the balance department is grouping Kha'Zix with the broken junglers just because he has some similarities with them. It's important that we try to get the message out that a champion is being overlooked.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KhaZix Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAAhP4c4,comment-id=00130001,timestamp=2015-03-05T00:48:13.444+0000)

As Kawaii Kha stated, he has problems for the wrong reasons.

The reason I believe this should be a higher priority is that Riot works with their own risk/reward system when prioritizing changes. They've touched on this when talking about visual updates before. They ask questions like "How easy would it be to do ______?" combined with the ever important "If we do _______, how much of a positive impact will it carry?".

So to answer your question, Riot's balance department should be sure to allocate time to fixing his problems because-

1.) It seems that there may be a quick, easy fix that would have a positive effect on the overall state of the game (more viable picks are always important).

A reset based champion who has a long history of being problematic? Yeah no,it's gonna be a tough one,It's not just that more viable picks are good,but viable different picks are much more important,kha has the classic high mobility+high damage which defines meta junglers,considering his history,this definitely seems like high risk(as i've said,reset based,long history of being problematic) low reward (he isn't very different from lee/j4/nida/vi) balancing.

2.) There's a lot of time being spent on the jungle right now, and it needs to be addressed before he gets left behind. Like I said before, I'm fairly worried that the balance department is grouping Kha'Zix with the broken junglers just because he has some similarities with them. It's important that we try to get the message out that a champion is being overlooked.

and your solution is to get him on even level with champions you just called "broken"(I mean this post starts with why pick him over zed/lee/j4)? What buffles me is that everything I've said has been previously stated by you,you understand that he has a long history of being problematic,"without breaking him (again)",you also understand that he isn't very different from the current meta junglers "I'm fairly worried that the balance department is grouping Kha'Zix with the broken junglers just because he has some similarities with them" ,you seem to be aware that he has been historically hard to balance,and that he isn't very different from what currently dominates the meta,so why isn't he a high risk low reward case?

Crett1 votes

I'm going to suggest three buffs that would all break Kha'zix. You must choose one.

Kha'zix gains an extra evolution point at level 1.

Kha'zix's cooldowns reset with each cast of Void Assault.

With an evolution point in his ultimate, the stealth now lasts up to 4 seconds, and can still be cast 3 times.

KhaZix Bot1 votes

You're not making this easy on me, are you?

Well, I'll give this a try, then!

1.) I can't really see a world where this is going to be alright. You could just run all attack damage (and maybe some armour penetration) and do 50% of someone's health at level one if you evolved Taste Their Fear first.

2.) This would be extremely frustrating to play against. Imagine the feeling one getting instantly popped in two Qs by Rengar and now Kha'Zix is doing that too. Now, that being said, there could be room for bonus cool down reduction during stealth. This would reward players for using the entire duration of Void Assault and give a lot more reason to evolve it. However, I think this one is really shaky in the sense that there's a chance that it breaks him completely or doesn't do enough. Hitting that "sweet spot" would be tough.

3.) This could help, but to be honest, I'd be more worried about it not making enough of a difference than I would be about it breaking him. Other stealth champions gain some sort of bonus to their ambush power when they cast their stealth (beyond resetting a passive that might already be up to start with). A four second stealth would be good for closing on a target, but if you're closing in that way, your first passive reset is completely wasted. I'm of the belief that Kha'Zix is going to need something more than stealth and slight movement bonuses during stealth if Void Assault is going to be a competitive evolution.

To be honest, I'd say option number three would be the safest bet, because it's better that a change doesn't do enough than him being broken once again.

Crett1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KhaZix Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAAhP4c4,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2015-03-05T00:37:39.975+0000)

You're not making this easy on me, are you?

Well, I'll give this a try, then!

1.) I can't really see a world where this is going to be alright. You could just run all attack damage (and maybe some armour penetration) and do 50% of someone's health at level one if you evolved Taste Their Fear first.

2.) This would be extremely frustrating to play against. Imagine the feeling one getting instantly popped in two Qs by Rengar and now Kha'Zix is doing that too. Now, that being said, there could be room for bonus cool down reduction during stealth. This would reward players for using the entire duration of Void Assault and give a lot more reason to evolve it. However, I think this one is really shaky in the sense that there's a chance that it breaks him completely or doesn't do enough. Hitting that "sweet spot" would be tough.

3.) This could help, but to be honest, I'd be more worried about it not making enough of a difference than I would be about it breaking him. Other stealth champions gain some sort of bonus to their ambush power when they cast their stealth (beyond resetting a passive that might already be up to start with). A four second stealth would be good for closing on a target, but if you're closing in that way, your first passive reset is completely wasted. I'm of the belief that Kha'Zix is going to need something more than stealth and slight movement bonuses during stealth if Void Assault is going to be a competitive evolution.

To be honest, I'd say option number three would be the safest bet, because it's better that a change doesn't do enough than him being broken once again.

Exactly. The first one is an immense damage buff early game (don't even try to trade with him in the jungle) that could snowball him easily or at least turn him into a monstrous lane bully.

The second would not only make him a powerful duelist, but his teamfight potential with it is absolutely bonkers. Imagine jumping in, hitting someone, stealthing, jumping on them and killing them, jump on someone else, stealth, repeat until quadra kill.

The third ideally would allow him to stalk a target in a dangerous position safely for a chance to strike an enemy in isolation, and make it impossible to catch him.

MaizeCraze1 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to suggest three buffs that would all break Kha'zix. You must choose one.

Kha'zix gains an extra evolution point at level 1.

Kha'zix's cooldowns reset with each cast of Void Assault.

With an evolution point in his ultimate, the stealth now lasts up to 4 seconds, and can still be cast 3 times.

The second one, because the CD on Void assault would be reset so I can cast it over and over, and have 100% CDR once I hit 6. Its like URF on steroids, in normals

Crett1 votes

{quoted}

The second one, because the CD on Void assault would be reset so I can cast it over and over, and have 100% CDR once I hit 6. Its like URF on steroids, in normals

Void Assault's CD will not reset. Just everything else

MaizeCraze2 votes

Void Assault's CD will not reset. Just everything else

Damn, thought I had a loophole there

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Now that I think about it, perhaps part of the problem with Kha is that there's a very simple way to counter him which is don't go anywhere alone. Perhaps they should add something to his kit that gives him a defensive benefit when there are no isolated targets near him? This could be anything from movespeed, armor and mr, lifesteal, or anything really, make it so there's a benefit to fighting Kha one on one as well as the risk of him having more damage.

KhaZix Bot2 votes

{quoted}

Now that I think about it, perhaps part of the problem with Kha is that there's a very simple way to counter him which is don't go anywhere alone. Perhaps they should add something to his kit that gives him a defensive benefit when there are no isolated targets near him? This could be anything from movespeed, armor and mr, lifesteal, or anything really, make it so there's a benefit to fighting Kha one on one as well as the risk of him having more damage.

This could be dangerous. This could potentially sway people into building like a tank/offtank which is definitely not a good thing. In team fights, isolation is rare. Kha'Zix could build tank and jump headlong into the enemy team to abuse the defensive bonuses. I see what you're going for, but I think we need to focus on alternative methods of survivability. Lifeteal could have some potential healthy benefits, though...

More from Gameplay

More by KhaZix Bot