RIP Shyvana 6.6

TheThundersRoar·Mar 15, 2016·43 votes·6,067 views

W damage to monsters nerf. Q damage nerf. Titanic Hydra 15 AD nerf. Sated Devourer 35 stacks needed nerf. Rift Herald 5 -> 2 stacks nerf (6.5).

Too strong? I suppose. BUT ALL DIS FO REAL? AW HELL NO RIOT!

87 Comments

SexyGamerMar 15, 201611 votes

that is enough to make her garbage tier again.

AninLegions777Mar 15, 20162 votes

Nah. She'll be fine.

Deus ImperatorMar 15, 201611 votes

I dont Mind the W nerf

Or The -15 Hydra Nerf

Or The Q Nerf

But, All 3 AT ONCE? Riot punched the air out of her lungs

I dont mind if The First and second one got applied, i will still be able to jungle accordingly, but all 3 is too much IMO, I dont play PBE so i may be exaggerating until i can play her post patch

Does anybody playing shyvana PBE can give a better outlook on how shes performing with the nerfs?

Blackstone01Mar 15, 20161 votes

Hey, at least it isn't like with Weedwick

WadeWilson1337Mar 15, 20161 votes

The difference is people actually like playing Shyvana

Blackstone01Mar 15, 20161 votes

And nobody liked playing WW? Cause his wide range of nerfs was much more drastic than the shyv nerfs.

WadeWilson1337Mar 15, 20164 votes

Dont worry, we will see her again in 9 months like Sejuani .

Deus ImperatorMar 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Dont worry, we will see her again in 9 months like .

Guys GUYS I GET IT

FIRE AND ICE!

Rito is trying to make a pun

yoniameMar 16, 20161 votes

this pun is weaker than Janna. Time to nerf her again.

TallyZrgMar 15, 20161 votes

Doesn't Hydra scale harder with health now anyways? I think people are over reacting to these changes just a little bit.

WadeWilson1337Mar 15, 20161 votes

Its not getting any compensation buffs

TallyZrgMar 15, 20162 votes

You are correct that it hasn't gotten any compensation buffs yet. However SmashGizmo stated that he may up the 1% on hit dmg to 2%.

http://i.imgur.com/1I0wuq4h.png

Taken from: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/03/red-post-collection-aurelion-sol_11.html

Maximum MordeMar 15, 20168 votes

These changes don't impact my AP Support Shyvanna at all.

shyvMar 15, 20162 votes

you joke but ap mid shyvana is the most fun i've ever had in a game

MhihnjMar 16, 20163 votes

http://files2.coloribus.com/files/adsarchive/part_1974/19745905/file/clash-of-clans-my-weapons-are-fireballs-600-91261.jpg

Slamurai JackMar 15, 20167 votes

She doesn't care about the 15 AD lost from Hydra.

Sated Devourer still takes 30 stacks because that change was pulled.

Rift Herald only giving 2 stacks hardly makes any difference.

Tank Shyvana is terrible and worse than Mundo or Sejuani in basically every way.

The other nerfs won't even be noticeable past lvl 4.

Shyvana will be fine.

doombotMECHAMar 15, 201610 votes

it makes me so sad that tankvana is unviable. We've lost so much to devourer...

Slamurai JackMar 15, 20165 votes

Oh, it was garbage well before Devourer came into existence. Tank Shyvana became terrible the moment Randuin's was changed to no longer slow enemies that are attacking you. That was all the way back in 4.10. She saw a brief resurgence with Smite+TP Cinderhulk top lane but that's it. Carries are just too fast and too tanky for Tank Shyvana to ever be good again.

Captain AishiMar 15, 20163 votes

even with smite+TP cinderhulk, shyvana was a garbage pick that lost her team the game for being in it most of the time (in competitive)

AbyssphereMar 15, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Aishi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h5LTp9kq,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-15T12:57:51.709+0000)

even with smite+TP cinderhulk, shyvana was a garbage pick that lost her team the game for being in it most of the time (in competitive)

Very true. There were so many games where I was thinking "Maybe it'll work THIS time" and it just never did.

LankPantsMar 15, 20162 votes

Can't say I really agree with any of this. Tank Shyvana doesn't have that many problems sticking to people like Lucian and Graves, who are the type of carry I suspect you mean when you say "quick and tanky". These are easy for Shyvana to stick onto, her movespeed will simply outpace their dashes without anyone CCing her and if people CC her she's fulfilling her job as a tank.

The carries that Shyvana really struggles with are Tristana and Vayne specifically. As it turns out knocking Shyvana off you before she can even get on top of you is more effective than trying to outrun her.

To a lesser extent she also suffers against Ashe, Varus and Ez although these champs all have flaws that she can exploit. In Ashe and Varus's case if she can get onto them they're in a lot of trouble and in Ez's case he just lacks the damage to kill a dedicated tank unless he's super fed.

Tank Shyvana's on the fringe of the meta at most times and it's never really been garbage. It's just a situational pick and if there's one thing that soloque's great at it's picking situational picks at atrocious times.

Slamurai JackMar 15, 20166 votes

You know Shyvana top has a 40% winrate right? You know why? Because Shyvana top is tank Shyvana by default. You know what Shyvana's winrate with Devourer is? 55%. You know what it is with Cinderhulk? 44%. Why? Because Tank Shyvana doesn't do anything. Also, this exists. Kalista . And this Janna is the best support in the game. And GL killing anyone with item 3156 as Tanky Shyvana.

LankPantsMar 15, 20161 votes

You know Shyvana top has a 40% winrate right? You know why? Because Shyvana top is tank Shyvana by default.

Really not true. Top Shyvana has damage options. Infact BotRK is the second most built item on Shyv top.

You know what Shyvana's winrate with Devourer is? 55%. You know what it is with Cinderhulk? 44%. Why? Because Tank Shyvana doesn't do anything.

That comes back to tankier builds being situational. If you build a Cinderhulk in every game it's going to be bad in a lot of them. If you build a Devourer in every game it's rarely bad. That doesn't mean there aren't scenarios where you should build Cinder over Devourer, it's one of the things you learn as you play the champ.

Also, this exists..

I wish she didn't. But anyway she kites any Shyvana build, she's just a Shyvana counter and there's really nothing you can do about it unless you just ban the bitch.

And this is the best support in the game.

Yep, and if Janna knocks up a squishier Shyvana during her ult she'll just die on the spot. Tanker builds will normally trade ult for ult with a good engage and Shyvana's ult is on a far shorter CD.

And GL killing anyone with item 3156 as Tanky Shyvana.

You clearly take the term tank far too literally. Most tank Shyvana's build Titanic or Frozen Mallet. You can kill people behind a Maw far better than true magic damage dealers.

Slamurai JackMar 15, 20165 votes

Any Shyvana without Sated Devourer is Tank Shyvana because she just doesn't do enough damage to justify playing her for her damage without that item. The only reason Shyvana is viable is because of Devourer, and any build without it is basically trolling. Any situation where Cinderhulk would be better, any tank would be better than Shyvana.

AninLegions777Mar 15, 20162 votes

The lies are so much. You can take warrior or Cinderhulk. Just make sure you get BoTRK AND Titanic Hydra. Don't do teamfights. Just push. You'll win.

chipndip1Mar 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h5LTp9kq,comment-id=0002000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-15T14:30:22.194+0000)

Any Shyvana without Sated Devourer is Tank Shyvana because she just doesn't do enough damage to justify playing her for her damage without that item. The only reason Shyvana is viable is because of Devourer, and any build without it is basically trolling. Any situation where Cinderhulk would be better, any tank would be better than Shyvana.

You'd think Riot wouldn't design a champ to entirely revolve around one singular item...

Slamurai JackMar 15, 20162 votes

Tank Shyvana was already on it's way out the door well before Sated Devourer arrived thanks to changes in the game that didn't have anything to do with her specifically. I stated as such earlier in the thread: The removal on the "slow upon being auto attacked" component from Randuins is what started her death; the nerfs to Thornmail, Sunfire, and Spirit Visage in combination with the introduction of champs like Gnar Kalista Azir and the constant slows creep in the game are ultimately made Tank Shyvana unviable. The introduction of Sated Devourer to give her massive dps and the introduction of Titanic Hydra to give her massive burst (both of which forced Riot to nerf her) are merely the final nails in the coffin that killed Tank Shyv.

chipndip1Mar 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h5LTp9kq,comment-id=000200000000000100000000000000020000,timestamp=2016-03-15T23:53:43.812+0000)

Tank Shyvana was already on it's way out the door well before Sated Devourer arrived thanks to changes in the game that didn't have anything to do with her specifically. I stated as such earlier in the thread: The removal on the "slow upon being auto attacked" component from Randuins is what started her death; the nerfs to Thornmail, Sunfire, and Spirit Visage in combination with the introduction of champs like and the constant slows creep in the game are ultimately made Tank Shyvana unviable. The introduction of Sated Devourer to give her massive dps and the introduction of Titanic Hydra to give her massive burst (both of which forced Riot to nerf her) are merely the final nails in the coffin that killed Tank Shyv.

Then instead of just allowing Shyv to live and die by a problematic jungle enchant, they should have done something about that.

Honestly, I hate Devourer in this game. I understand that there's gotta be a way for junglers that farm to stay relevant against junglers that gank at levels 2 - 4, but Devourer takes that notion and can potentially jack it up five notches out of nowhere. Its synergy with on-hit items takes what could have been a cool idea and makes it horrendous for the solo-queue environment, especially when any on-hit items become strong.

Slamurai JackMar 16, 20162 votes

There's really no way you could make Shyvana work with her current kit without giving her assassin level threat if she's able to reach melee range of you and stay there. Her kit just doesn't have the tools to be a "wear you down" Bruiser anymore with how the game has changed. It's not a coincidence that Garen got his damage massively buffed late game in his rework and Mundo got massive buffs at the end of last season; low DPS bruisers without hard CC just aren't viable anymore.

chipndip1Mar 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h5LTp9kq,comment-id=00020000000000010000000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-16T00:19:57.703+0000)

There's really no way you could make Shyvana work with her current kit without giving her assassin level threat if she's able to reach melee range of you and stay there. Her kit just doesn't have the tools to be a "wear you down" Bruiser anymore with how the game has changed. It's not a coincidence that Garen got his damage massively buffed late game in his rework and Mundo got massive buffs at the end of last season; low DPS bruisers without hard CC just aren't viable anymore.

Tbh, there's a lot of shit with older champs that are blatantly feast or famine or straight up not viable at all in the long run. I think Riot needs to put less focus into new champs and more focus into doing medium/large scale reworks of older champs.

Now that the game has a relatively solid meta behind it, what a champ should and shouldn't do is far more clear than when Riot was just throwing hit-boxes and models together and naming the gumbo something crazy like "Blitzcrank" and throwing it out there.

WadeWilson1337Mar 15, 20162 votes

Can confirm. Was 13/4/13 with Shyvana with Sated and titanic, literally couldnt kill a 0/6/8 graves with item 3053 item 3156 .

Masala ChaiMar 16, 20161 votes

Kalista is getting gutted pretty hard this coming patch. W proc's damage has been halved, Loss of base attack speed and nerf to attack speed items makes it harder to build attack speed, and the new W passive which replaced it (which barely makes up for the lost attack speed) basically requires for her support to be next to her the entire game (which also prevents the support from roaming mid, the ult cast range has been lowered ,by 33%, and Sentinel only lasts for 3 laps, as opposed to 7. Combined with the 90% AD scaling on her auto attacks, reduced damage from crits, nerfs to Rend in 6.1, nerfs to Blade of the Ruined King, and Runaan's Hurricane (it might be seen as a buff for Twitch and Jinx, but since Kalista doesn't normally build Infinity Edge it's a nerf for her) she's not going to be particularly strong in Solo Queue, and she'll just be filling a similar niche with Twitch in Competitive.

Slamurai JackMar 17, 20161 votes

Kalista will never be niche so long as her passive makes her completely untouchable by melee champions. Turns out that when you give a champion a completely broken strength, that the rest of the kit doesn't really matter that much.

Masala ChaiMar 17, 20161 votes

With the advent of melee champions having gapclosers that are coming into meta or already being very popular such as Zed Alistar Yasuo MasterYi , as well as being made very weak throughout laning (Twitch completely outtrades her at this point), and having a terrible late game. She is going to suffer in this meta. Even Nasus can catch up to her because of Wither which basically makes her appear she's walking on the moon. Her passive is mostly irrelevant vs Mages and other ADCs, especially the likes of Swain, Malzahar and LeBlanc. She counters immobility, but sometimes even immobile champs can catch up to her. The only reasons why she is really good is because of bullshit like Udyr . She also loses 66% of her DPS when dashing, because of the scaling dashes, and such.

If you're calling Kalista broken, you may as well also be calling Ezreal or Vayne complete bullshit, because why they don't have as much mobility as Kalista (but in fact very close), they all have other mechanics which are annoying. (Stealth during combat, Blinks, Cooldown Reduction on hit, % health true damage) etc. etc. Kalista is better at the kiting game than most ADCs (except perhaps Ashe or Quinn, depending on how well you can anim cancel) and

Slamurai JackMar 17, 20161 votes

You act like the Kalista is 1v1ing those champions. She isn't. She always has someone like this Nautilus Janna Braum Alistar Thresh peeling like crazy for her. And Kalista hasn't been weak late game since the changes to the adc items; her late game is now God Tier since she can utilize crit like all the other adcs.

Masala ChaiMar 17, 20161 votes

But she doesn't utilize crit as well as the other ADCs because of the 90% scaling on auto attacks. With the changes to her, she needs her support with her at all times. Therefore, her support can't roam mid safely.

Shot CàllerMar 15, 20163 votes

Can't tell if sarcasm or just dumb.

Slamurai JackMar 15, 20166 votes

100% serious. Shyvana isn't worth picking unless you build Sated Devourer on her because her extreme synergy with the item forces Riot to keep her woefully undertuned for every other possible build. It gives her the burst and insane DPS she needs to make up for all of her crippling weaknesses. Playing without it very quickly shows just how bad Shyvana is on her own merits.

Shot CàllerMar 15, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h5LTp9kq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-03-15T07:50:40.084+0000)

She doesn't care about the 15 AD lost from Hydra.

Sated Devourer still takes 30 stacks because that change was pulled.

Rift Herald only giving 2 stacks hardly makes any difference.

Tank Shyvana is terrible and worse than Mundo or Sejuani in basically every way.

The other nerfs won't even be noticeable past lvl 4.

Shyvana will be fine.

**I'm talking about this **

Raiku KawisaMar 15, 20163 votes

They reverted the 35 stack nerf. It still transforms at 30 stacks. The onlt Devourer nerf was the Rift Herald only gives 2.

Bodkins OddsMar 17, 20161 votes

They also mentioned that they were considering increases the health scaling on Titanic. They just didn't want it's AD to be that high.

CalabokMar 15, 20163 votes

Exaggeration of justified nerf detected. Call Obama!

PixTronMar 15, 20162 votes

Yet still has a 54.8% Winrate, the highest Jungle Winrate in the game at this moment.

1MazaMar 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Yet still has a 54.8% Winrate, the highest Jungle Winrate in the game at this moment.

Because the nerf hasn't gone through yet..?

Solari FortuneMar 15, 20162 votes

She will still clear the jungle fast
The Rank 5 scaling is still the same so just max it second
That is to stop people who shouldn't be buying it like Fiora and now Zed it seems
That was Reverted
Considering how fast a devourer jungler was stacking this was needed.