The update this is for will be the Worlds patch [EDIT: one patch before Worlds]. As such, these balance changes are nearly entirely for professional play.
So before you go making the upteenth complaint thread about how they are buffing Riven and Vayne, remember:
This is not for the average player skill level.
Valexfor14 votesYes, that's true, but this will still ruin the game for 99,9%of the playerbase for a whole patch. No one likes to see Vayne oneshotting everything on the rift or Riven just ultinng randomly and getting a penta or any shit like that.
ModWulf Helhammer9 votesAnd none of them will do that. These are buffs, yes. But don't be delusional and say they break the game in any form.
Neither Vayne or Riven are strong right now in a meta where they should be strong, with fighters that a Riven should be able to bully early, and tanky health stacking mages that Vayne should be able to fight with ease. Instead, neither of them are.
Weiner the Pooh6 votesRiven is not weak, she can still bully really well and still scales well. These buffs were unwarranted.
Valexfor6 votesThen we have seen some really different riven and vaynes my dear. Vayne still fuck everything up and riven still does nonsensical damage. Don't be delusiona that they're weak, they are fine withouth those buffs. They are unnecessary and will just ruin the game for a lot of people.
ModWulf Helhammer3 votesYeah, the 46% winrate on Vayne is really wreaking the game balance
Sub 50% on Riven even with 50-125 games on her is really gamebreaking too.
Valexfor6 votesWinrate, the excuse of those who have no real understanding nor concrete proof of what they are talking about. League of legends is a team game, a champ winrate doesn't mean mean much, also if you don't know how to play the champ, no matter what, you'll lose.
ModWulf Helhammer4 votes.....and what exactly would your reasoning be? Personal experience?
I'm lower ranked then you, so by basis of that logic, you should be better equipped to handle champions like Riven and Vayne. Yet I'm perfectly fine against them, and you somehow feel they are causing a problem right now, or are in a good spot?
Valexfor3 votesWell, we migh play different roles and champs. But anyway: they are not unbearable, they are fine right now, that's why these changes aren't needed. It's normal for riven to have nonsensical damage, it's how she's designed to work and it's normal if vayne fucks shit up, it's what she is supposed to do.
It Hertz When IP2 votesStop feeding the troll, Avantel.
GULAG 4 U1 votes+20% ad scaling? Nice!!!! Cause now vayne's tumble autos will not deal 150% of the bonus ad, but 170%!!! woot!!!
Feed Daddy1 votesThen we have seen some really different riven and vaynes my dear. Vayne still fuck everything up and riven still does nonsensical damage. Don't be delusiona that they're weak, they are fine withouth those buffs. They are unnecessary and will just ruin the game for a lot of people.
Vayne is useless
PiVoRx11 votesRiven buff for pro play makes as much sense as Yorrick nerf would.
ModWulf Helhammer3 votesExcept she's been played by Huni and, btw, Faker
PiVoRx7 votesFaker also played Yi once.. so.. lets buff Yi for pro play?
ModWulf Helhammer1 votesAnd we were talking about Yi?
You implied that no one plays Riven in pro play. I gave you too examples otherwise. You then reply to that with bringing up a completely unrelated topic?
PiVoRx1 votesAnd i gave you an example of your fail logic, if Riven gets buffed cause "Faker played her", why other champions that Faker used shouldnt be buffed?
DeathBurst2 votesExcept that was not his logic. He didn't say "Riven was played, hence she needs buff", but YOU said "Riven isn't played, hence she doesn't need balance change" (at least I assume that's what you mean with your comparison to Yorick), and he REPLIED to you "your premise is false, she is actually played".
ProfDrDeath10 votesLittle note:
6.18 is World's patch, not the upcoming 6.17.
ModWulf Helhammer2 votesAh, thanks! I was thinking it might have been that one, but I wasn't entirely sure
Haunt8 votesOh so even though us players at higher elo have to deal with the people that know how to abuse the ones that get buffed too hard, it isn't an issue? Also who says they're just gonna nerf whoever was good right after worlds? They're not just "buffing it for worlds" and then taking it away right after. If Riven and Vayne become top tier pick/ban status, is nobody going to play them because the buffs were meant for pros?
You need to think about EVERY playerbase. I've played to around 100 LP master and I'm currently sitting at D3 because, well, shit happens, but I can tell you for sure that it doesn't matter if you're pro or not. If you're good at the champ, you're good at the champ. Just because it doesn't fuck over the average skill doesn't mean it's ok, think about more than yourself.
Treune814 votesAzir nerfs (three patches ago), Riven and Vayne buffs.Where is justice? Is this real life?
Riven and Vayne mains are win rates very good why buffs? Such sensible changes.Kappa.
PermabannedGaren2 votesAzir nerfs (three patch ago), Riven and Vayne buffs.Where is justice? Is this real life?
Riven and Vayne mains are win rates very good why buffs? Such sensible changes.Kappa.
http://champion.gg/champion/Vayne
The hot 48% win rate after 125+ games.
Treune813 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/Vayne
The hot 48% win rate after 125+ games.
https://champion.gg/champion/Azir
The hot 44% win rate after 125+ games.
PermabannedGaren5 voteshttps://champion.gg/champion/Azir
The hot 44% win rate after 125+ games.
All right, so I've picked up on the fact that you're not very smart, so I'm going to try to make my words as simple as possible so nothing is lost in translation.
You said that Vayne mains have very good win rates. I showed data that indicates this is not the case.
You are now responding by showing that Azir mains are doing even more poorly.
Okay? I didn't say shit about Azir, and Azir being shit right now has no bearing on the fact that your statement of "Vayne mains have very good win rates" was a stupid lie.
Try to keep up.
Treune813 votesAll right, so I've picked up on the fact that you're not very smart, so I'm going to try to make my words as simple as possible so nothing is lost in translation.
You said that Vayne mains have very good win rates. I showed data that indicates this is not the case.
You are now responding by showing that Azir mains are doing even more poorly.
Okay? I didn't say shit about Azir, and Azir being shit right now has no bearing on the fact that your statement of "Vayne mains have very good win rates" was a stupid lie.
Try to keep up.
125+ games average 48% win rate and 400 or 500 games maybe 52-53% win rate.Meanwhile Vayne mains win rate is 52-53%.
http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/vayne
Try to keep up.
PermabannedGaren3 votes125+ games average 48% win rate and 400 or 500 games maybe 52-53% win rate.
Try to keep up.
Got any data to back that up?
Also, that win rate is horrible for someone that experienced at the champion.
Aww, that's cute, you're not intelligent enough to come up with your own condescending phrase so you steal mine to compensate for your own inadequacies. =)
Treune813 votesGot any data to back that up?
Also, that win rate is horrible for someone that experienced at the champion.
Aww, that's cute, you're not intelligent enough to come up with your own condescending phrase so you steal mine to compensate for your own inadequacies. =)
Look again salty main.Look datas.You shouldn't talk without knowing.
PermabannedGaren2 votesLook again salty main.Look datas.You shouldn't talk without knowing.
I accept your concession.
Stick to the pond froggy.
PermabannedGaren3 votesLol.No argument.
Why are you incapable of coming up with any insults that aren't dumbed down versions of what I said to you?
zlumpy1 votes48% is a pretty good win rate on a higher skill ceiling champ tbh. High skill champs aren't supposed to have higher win rates. That says people who don't know them as well are using them to greater effect than they should be.
PermabannedGaren1 votes48% is a pretty good win rate on a higher skill ceiling champ tbh. High skill champs aren't supposed to have higher win rates. That says people who don't know them as well are using them to greater effect than they should be.
Why are you people incapable of reading statistics?
Do you think win rate and skill cap are the only factors that should be considered when reading them?
Riven's playerbase is consistently among the most experienced of any champion's.
Let's see how Riven noobs do on her.
About 44.8% on new players. Almost exactly the same win rate on a similarly experienced Lee Sin or Fiora, both high skill cap champions. Both are also not very good right now, though this is less true for Fiora. Draven has a similar win rate on noobs.
Draven actually might be worse than Riven despite his fifty percent win rate, since Draven has THE most experienced playerbase for an ADC, yet can barely break even.
Lady Hammerlock1 votesAzir nerfs (three patches ago), Riven and Vayne buffs.Where is justice? Is this real life?
Riven and Vayne mains are win rates very good why buffs? Such sensible changes.Kappa.
The reason they are not buffing azir is that they are afraid he'll dominate competitive play AGAIN with just small changes
Tychusfindlay9194 votesThe update this is for will be the Worlds patch [EDIT: one patch before Worlds]. As such, these balance changes are nearly entirely for professional play.
So before you go making the upteenth complaint thread about how they are buffing Riven and Vayne, remember:
This is not for the average player skill level.
Using that logic where are the buffs for 
and so on and so forth who aren't seeing any professional play?
It's not for the average skill player it's for the LCS ok fine. But if those two are considered underpowered in the LCS (despite Riven having some games under her belt and the majority of them being wins) then aren't all these other champions and more considered underpowered? Make em viable, buff em.
DeathBurst2 votesThe goal of balance changes for the Worlds is to have more diversity, but it's not to suddenly have all 130 champions played... That would be insane.
Tychusfindlay9191 votesThe goal of balance changes for the Worlds is to have more diversity, but it's not to suddenly have all 130 champions played... That would be insane.
Then why buff a champion that already has LCS presence (
) when you can buff champions that have had absolutely no presence this season. If you can't answer that, then piss off. Because THAT to me is insane.
DeathBurst1 votesYou can buff a champ that see a little play because you know it's on the verge of being more common and you can evaluate him. You can't properly buff a champ that didn't see play AT ALL, because you don't know what he needs and how far he is from being played.
Tychusfindlay9191 votesYou can buff a champ that see a little play because you know it's on the verge of being more common and you can evaluate him. You can't properly buff a champ that didn't see play AT ALL, because you don't know what he needs and how far he is from being played.
Faulty, vayne has seen zero play and is receiving buffs.
atomicwit3 votesTbh, I think balance should only be geared for the highest skill players. If you "balance" around weaker players, all you're doing is distorting reality and champion strength to compensate for big player mistakes. In a sense, it's quite the opposite of balance and more like hand holding. It actually makes certain champions unviable when at the ELO where they're played properly just to appease the players who are too weak to understand how to deal with them.
I'd rather suffer and have to ban certain champions when I am bad but get an objectively balanced game instead of the casual approach.
Getcuxcd2 votesfor riven even the smallest buff will break the game and fuck brand wtf other buffs i guess i can swallow but this is bullshit
NZzNoIrcSy2 voteswheres my nasus buffs then?
their boosted ape balance team loves to play favorites
BloodyTompon2 votesActually the main thing to remember is.. Warning : PBE Content is tentative and subject to change - what you see below may not reflect what eventually gets pushed to live servers at the end of the cycle! Manage your expectations accordingly.
NotCounter1 votesWell, nevermind.
ModWulf Helhammer5 votesDoublelift and Piglet would like a word with you.
She's a hypercarry, and pros can build the comp around them to last past their early game to where they hurt like hell late
Princess Íncest1 voteszed is trash now. no need for counters.
Calabok1 votesBan Zed, Yasuo, Fizz and Annie
Wolfess1 votesThe update this is for will be the Worlds patch [EDIT: one patch before Worlds]. As such, these balance changes are nearly entirely for professional play.
So before you go making the upteenth complaint thread about how they are buffing Riven and Vayne, remember:
This is not for the average player skill level.
what % of the player base make up the players that this was targeted for
and what % of the players are the mentioned "average player skill level"
I'd really like to see these amounts weighed on a scale.
