Apparently Riven isnt balanced

IlIIllIIllIIlIl·10/7/2015, 7:29:54 PM·9 votes·2,183 views

I would like to know why everyone thinks Riven is so op. Please, Humor me. (P.S just because u see all those boxbox 1v5 riven highlights doesn't mean that happens every game for him, half the time its on a smurf too)

47 Comments

Smitemuffin10/8/2015, 1:03:15 AM6 votes

I remember when Riot went on this big kick about removing hard cc from assassins in order to preserve some measure of counterplay.

Kassadin lost a silence

Leblanc lost two silences

Talon lost a silence

Riven still has TWO AoE stuns and her AD ratios are so insane that - despite being a spell-spamming, CDR-stacking, AA champ - she does too much damage to viably build any item from item 3057

When you add that onto the fact that she deals ONLY a single damage type and can buy AoE lifesteal (which doesn't diminish in AoEs like Spell Vamp does), there's no logical argument that she's a fair champion. Can't kite her, by 2337 gold (item 3134 and item 3158 with Tier 1 CDR mastery) she averages a dash every 2.3 seconds if you base your calcs ONLY off her longest cooldown. That's 848 units of dashing, by the way. At level 1 alone, she gets:

  • 523 units of dashes in 3 increments
  • 3 AoE damage spells
  • 3 auto attack resets
  • 3 enhanced auto attacks at 20% bonus damage each
  • 1 AoE knockup

And she gets this every 13 seconds base

MOST POPULAR ARGUMENTS:

A) She has to flash to get in range sometimes!

Yeah. It's just too bad she has to burn a 425-range summoner 4 when she gets 3 of them every 2.6 seconds (on average) at her easily-acquired max CDR and another one every 3.6 seconds. Because waiting on 5-minute summoner 4 timers is for plebians

**B) She's "squishy" because her typical build only typically gets 400 bonus hp from item 3071 and sometimes 25 MR from item 3155 ! **

But this is obviously nonsense due to her 1:1 ratio burst lifesteal and her ability to easily keep MULTIPLE enemies juggled in stuns before blowing them up with her massive AoE execute augmented by her 20% total AD given as BONUS AD. Let's look at her full burst with ult on (a 30-second Cooldown with item 3071 item 3158 and Tier 1 CDR mastery):

Passive: 3 x 150% AD (this is the attack AND augmentation) Q: 3 x (90 dmg +60% AD) = 270 + 180% AD W: 170 + 100% Bonus AD R: between 160 + 60% Bonus AD and 480 + 180% Bonus AD ( let's average it and say 320 + 120%)

Damage = 760 + 120% x [630% Total AD + 220% Bonus AD] Damage = 760 + 756% Total AD + 264% Bonus AD

So, if you have 300 AD (a laughably low number for Riven) counting her base AD at 107 - meaning 193 bonus AD - you're looking at a burst of 3310.48 damage. All while juggled in stuns, mostly AoE, NOT counting the item 3077 active, and on a champ that basically just rushes Armor Pen.

Compare that to Zed with a full burst of 125% total AD + 287.5% Bonus AD + 50% damage dealt and autos

Or Talon with a full burst of 460% bonus AD (multiplying in Cutthroat amp) + autos with a measly 10% bonus on autos during his total 2.25 seconds of slows.

C) She's takes skill to play!

Try playing a champ that can't summoner 4 summoner 4 summoner 4 then summoner 4 every 13 seconds before ever having to use summoner 4 without any skillshots save for a 900-unit cone at 1600-unit projectile speed and two AoE stuns (one of which is a knockup and can't be cleansed). You don't have to aim, you barely get punished for bad positioning, only ONE spell in 8 castables has a cast time (Wind Slash is the only non-instant) and you get massive AoE sustain from lifesteal all without needing to manage a resource

So, yeah. There's no rational argument that Riven is a balanced champion.

DeynaTaggerung10/8/2015, 8:25:31 PM4 votes

Well.. it isn't called "balanced wings"

Captain Aishi10/8/2015, 8:00:57 AM3 votes

her scaling is so high that she snowalls the most of any champion in the game... her burst combo (which includes 2 hard CCs) scales with over 700% of her bonus AD (talon, who is considered one of the highest burst champions in the game, scales with less that 500% of his AD on his full combo)

any champion with this kind of ridiculous scaling is bound to cause a feast or famine problem

bad manner kid10/7/2015, 7:36:01 PM3 votes

Doesn't matter too much anymore, Riot's new philosophy is to jam OP reworks down our throats so we stop complaining about old annoying champions.

DrCyanide10/8/2015, 10:19:06 PM2 votes

I think part of the perception of Riven being OP (right or wrong I'm not sure) is that she has a solution to most problems:

  • Slowed? Use your plethora of dashes to ignore it.
  • Incoming CC? Use your plethora of dashes to dodge it.
  • Need to catch a target? Use your plethora of dashes to close the gap.
  • Need to stick to a target once you catch them? Your final Q is a knockup, and you've got a stun.
  • Need to get away? Use your stun to by yourself time.
  • Still need to get away? Use your plethora of dashes to escape.
  • About to take harass? Use your shield to absorb it.
  • Low health enemy about to get away? Use your ult to execute them.

Add to that the fact that she has no resource to manage, which means that health bars and items being equal she's not at a disadvantage to continue to stay in lane and use her abilities to either farm or harass.

What other champions have that much going for them? There are many that can do a few of these things, but I don't think there's any other champion that can compete with Riven's ability to respond to a situation. Maybe Kalista, but she's limited in many of these regards by her proximity to enemy/neutral targets, and not exactly considered the most balanced of opponents either.

Tristanl0l10/7/2015, 11:05:20 PM2 votes

Getting tanky by building damage shouldn't exist, and is true the other way around as well.

Boulderox10/8/2015, 12:01:59 AM2 votes

The reason I find her unbalaced is because she can be cockblocked top lane, but like katarina, she just needs to amass kills in some form. And she is almost guarenteed a kill on an adc with a flash w into full rotation, thats where I myself find her problematic. Everything in her kit helps her, nothing has risks for her, if she can aa cancel with q successfully, gg. And an ad scaling shield on an melee carry... That scaling is way too much for what it is, and thematically how do you get a shield from dashing a short distance. Cdr and damage ia her staples, her cd's need something nerfed, because every riven that carries builds 40%cdr and can kite so much with it it is stupid. Kassadin was nerfed to the ground due to his mobility, but 40% cdr riven can q q q e endlessly, catch her lol, w e qqq away.

J3 e c k e t t10/8/2015, 8:36:11 PM2 votes

Riven is a classic case of "no skill" The reason no one likes her is because her only really aim reliant ability is a giant aoe execute cone, with a huge steroid tacked on. Her q is very spammable mobility, her e is a shield and a dash, but the shield actually scales off of ad, so she doesn't have to really build defensive, and she has an aoe stun and knock-back. Lastly riven players are well known for raging and being toxic, or thinking they're better than everyone else. Oh and on top of all of that her abilities have low cooldowns at no cost.

Blade of Justic10/8/2015, 8:39:59 PM2 votes

I just hate how if I'm not playing a champ with range and disengage, the lane turns into "Don't move within X of Riven or be deleted."

There's little to no interaction with her. Like a close range Nidalee.

The Yetii Rider10/7/2015, 7:32:25 PM2 votes

The reason Riven is currently unbalanced is because she deals a large amount of physical damage without relying too heavily on multiple auto attacks or critical strike.

Frozen Heart, Randuin's Omen, and Thornmail have all been nerfed, and Warden's Mail especially getting hit has made it significantly harder to prevent Riven from snowballing in lane.

Riven in particular is not OP. The itemization for defense vs offense has been changed to make her oppressive.

Mr Broken Wings10/7/2015, 8:25:23 PM1 votes

Rivens earlygame got gutted to the point that even Nasus can just autohit without using his q against riven if she tries to trade with him at level 1. 10 basedamage ability booyz, nasus lifesteal will heal more and rivens q aggros minions, great ability earlygame! Riven stays squishy even if ahead and 1 mistake can completly delete her, not like Irelia who will just roflstomp your ass without counterplay. Rivens kit has no poke, she can only trade and poke while being melee. No comeback mechanism in lane, no healthreg, no inbuild sustain till you get lifesteal ( a good riven wont finish hydra early if she doesnt have to so she will be without sustain for quiet a while) Her e duration is non existent anymore, if she uses it and you just walk a bit back you can avoid trading into it and completly wreck her. Riven is completly shutdowned by every cc that takes her e usage from her ( silence, root, stun etc) because she wont have any defensive mechanism as melee squish left, thats also the reason she is shitty in 5 v 5 situations and outclassed by every tanky champions as a toplaner in that regard ( Hey look, Irelia has the same role as squish killer AND gets tanky, she gets both but riven doesnt?) Riven gets outclassed earlygame and lategame and can only get a problem against people who dont know how to play that matchup at all midgame, and even then Irelia outscales her after level 9. She overall is bad for a teamcomp. You need to waste 10x more time on this champion to get good then with other champions and even then your winrate wont differ ( will be even worse overall). Also Riven doesnt have a lot favorable matchups ( honestly just vlad and yasuo, every tanky toplaner that can afford a chainwest after the first back will ignore her) on toplane but A LOT of countermatchups that will completly deny her laning if equally skilled. Fiora does rivens job while having a mini fizz e on her w that also stuns AND you cant counterbuild against fiora while you can against riven. Also fiora has a waay stronger teamfighting presence with her invincibility aoe heal after the first kill with her ult. She is outclassed by fiora in all aspects at the moment and there is no reason to pick her over her. I could probably go on and on about how bad she is right now but I guess thats enough for now. Just bronzies think she is too strong right now, febiven an old riven main makes jokes about HOW bad she is while streaming lol.

Vicarious11710/8/2015, 8:36:06 PM1 votes

Some people don't seem to get it.... yeah sure all those boxbox 1v5 Riven vids are far from the average, but why the fuck is that even supposed to be possible!?

I don't care how good you are at a champ, there are very few champs who can truly 1v5 and get multiple kills if not a fucking penta and they are all utterly broken because that whole concept being possible at a decent skill level is absurd! No champ should be able to get so fed they can easily 1v5 without any good ways to kite them, that SHOULD be a requirement for champs with strong enough kits to kill 5 people on their own when fed, but not Riven! She has so much mobility on top of AoE hard CC that when played by someone who can play her to her max potential (which really isn't all that high, to be honest) they can single handedly control 5 people on their own, then with that utterly stupid amount of damage, defenses that scale with her offensive stats, and ofc absolutely no resources to even have to worry about, she's simply broken.

Shut her down early game and hope she still tries to dive in 1v5 even when behind and she will then become a non-factor, but if she gets fed (which isn't hard to do) then you lose.

Duke Anax10/8/2015, 10:13:57 PM1 votes

The reason Riven is both seemingly OP and seemingly weak at the same time is the Animation Cancelling.

If a Riven player knows this cheat/bug/exploit/glitch, whatever you wanna call it, and is able to abuse it, they can do her full combo in a very short amount of time, giving their opponent little chance to react. That way she can quite easily trade and kill.

However since she has been balanced around this mechanic, a player that can't do the trick seems weak.