Are there any statistics on how supports main win agains autofill supports?

Crimson Zeppelin·Aug 27, 2018·18 votes·10,725 views

I am actually curious about this fact. Do autofill supports effective as a support main, and provide the same performance? And if they are failing in what department do they fail, and do even winrates sway?

We had autofill for 3 seasons now, and is this system good for the game in the long run? Does it create matches that are unfair? Aside from "gaming experience" of queing, how do players actually feel after a game?

Do warding placements change between a autofill support and a main? What sort of picks do autofills pick? Is that strategy even strong to compensate for a support main? Do the match quality lower?

32 Comments

Lordk0zAug 27, 201816 votes

Depends on the attitude of the autofill I'd wager.

Obviously a main's better at the champ, but someone who accepts being a support would definitely work better than someone who very clearly wants to play ADC thresh.

Crimson ZeppelinAug 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Depends on the attitude of the autofill I'd wager.

Obviously a main's better at the champ, but someone who accepts being a support would definitely work better than someone who very clearly wants to play ADC thresh.

Yeah so i want a clear statistic of how many autofill players are actively unwilling to do support, and how it affects ranked game experience by pure numbers as well on top of normal autofill players who just play it out.

I think Riot never gave us true numbers in any occasion. And if that is the case. Why?

DrCyanideAug 27, 20184 votes

A lot of the numbers you're asking for are very tricky to work out, if not impossible. How, with the stats available in Match History, do you judge if a person was "actively unwilling to do support"? How do you measure how players feel after a game if you're not actively polling them right after the game (and polling them in a way that doesn't introduce bias or only get "it sucks to support" answers)?

I suspect the reason Riot doesn't release it is because there's little difference between someone auto filled to Support vs someone auto filled in another role. Then again, they might release some info on it at or around Season 9 start, to highlight their rank per role system.

The VolcanoAug 28, 20181 votes

Don't underestimate my boy Thresh he can become more powerful then you can possibly imagine.

Praetor NotoriasAug 27, 20182 votes

I'm willing to bet this season there isn't as much variance as there used to be since feeding an adc 18 kills and zero deaths doesn't really mean you'll still win where as in the past that kind of score virtually promised your victory. You'd need to find some other metric to measure with other than win rate.

ValiantKillerAug 28, 20182 votes

As autofill support myself, i do put twice wards of normal support main and i don't know why xD infact i got 63% winrate on Zyra since she is my 1 trick when i get autofilled.

VztahAug 28, 20182 votes

Same, I mean it's nice to have vision early game I try to ward tri-bush and a spot above the bush on the opposite side closer to the middle of the river near the dragon pit. The only way you get shit on with vision is if you intentionally walk into trouble so it helps a lot all you have to do is focus on your lane with the security of wards.

ValiantKillerAug 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Same, I mean it's nice to have vision early game I try to ward tri-bush and a spot above the bush on the opposite side closer to the middle of the river near the dragon pit. The only way you get shit on with vision is if you intentionally walk into trouble so it helps a lot all you have to do is focus on your lane with the security of wards.

Yah since im top main , warding is a must for me which make me better at vision score more than suppport mains.

I'm ugort, illaoi and Yorick main so ilm always pushed and warding which reflect on when I get autofilled

Crimson ZeppelinAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yah since im top main , warding is a must for me which make me better at vision score more than suppport mains.

I'm ugort, illaoi and Yorick main so ilm always pushed and warding which reflect on when I get autofilled

To learn how to ward to limit the enemy junglers movements, you need to push and have a winning lane, and perform that instinctly repetetively. For instance, I always ward the jungle river, and enemy camp entrance on botside and slowly move the wards into their territory when I have a winning lane.

...The alarming thing is, from my personal experience, warding as midlaner and buying a pink ward on every back is NOT a thing around silver 2 where my smurf is but is nearly 100% done around gold 3-4 at least. So putting the whole population of that tier in mind, it means around 20% of leagues ranked population does not know how to ward. And these people have the risk to be autofilled into support and losing the strategy game.

Isn't this scary? It means that even if your autofill support is winning they have a ample possibility of letting the enemy sneak baron, get caught and throw. I want numbers and facts to disprove this dreaded thought, and let us know that people ARE reflecting their best when filled.

ValiantKillerAug 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=guzIwMZ3,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-28T19:42:23.656+0000)

To learn how to ward to limit the enemy junglers movements, you need to push and have a winning lane, and perform that instinctly repetetively. For instance, I always ward the jungle river, and enemy camp entrance on botside and slowly move the wards into their territory when I have a winning lane.

...The alarming thing is, from my personal experience, warding as midlaner and buying a pink ward on every back is NOT a thing around silver 2 where my smurf is but is nearly 100% done around gold 3-4 at least. So putting the whole population of that tier in mind, it means around 20% of leagues ranked population does not know how to ward. And these people have the risk to be autofilled into support and losing the strategy game.

Isn't this scary? It means that even if your autofill support is winning they have a ample possibility of letting the enemy sneak baron, get caught and throw. I want numbers and facts to disprove this dreaded thought, and let us know that people ARE reflecting their best when filled.

I'm gold4 and i can tell you , mid laner got a problem at warding till that rank so yah. But since as i said i play aggressive top laner such as urgot, i tend to ward alot and control ward in second or first back so that why i work with same mental when i play as support special that i play zyra which is very aggressive lane bully support.

Crimson ZeppelinAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

As autofill support myself, i do put twice wards of normal support main and i don't know why xD infact i got 63% winrate on since she is my 1 trick when i get autofilled.

Zombie ward is a very clever option and I think you may have it if you have that ward score and knowing you play Zyra (which often uses domination). I use it as a crutch for ward coverage when I do support.

ValiantKillerAug 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=guzIwMZ3,comment-id=00090001,timestamp=2018-08-28T05:35:28.316+0000)

Zombie ward is a very clever option and I think you may have it if you have that ward score and knowing you play Zyra (which often uses domination). I use it as a crutch for ward coverage when I do support.

Yea i do use ward zombie and it funny how i see most of mages support such zyra or brand or etc never used it special if they support mains. That why i say sometimes autofill support could be 100% better than support main special that im top/jungle main so i tend to switch my wards to farsighted early and ward whenever i can

Crimson ZeppelinAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yea i do use ward zombie and it funny how i see most of mages support such zyra or brand or etc never used it special if they support mains. That why i say sometimes autofill support could be 100% better than support main special that im top/jungle main so i tend to switch my wards to farsighted early and ward whenever i can

So say, if there is a graph telling me that since autofills prefer domination and picks ward zombie, but because of that they are actually warding efficiently without knowing it, it is quite hillarious but good data.

ValiantKillerAug 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=guzIwMZ3,comment-id=0009000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-28T19:45:47.074+0000)

So say, if there is a graph telling me that since autofills prefer domination and picks ward zombie, but because of that they are actually warding efficiently without knowing it, it is quite hillarious but good data.

I honestly goes domination for the pleasure of the free healing off Ravenous hunter, yes i always use it on all my mages to sustain healing xD So mostly i go with something that help with warding on autofilled since i know i will always use control ward alot early and sweeper which help me to get more easy vision keeping in mind that my side control ward will be cleared so if i didn't back i will just sweeper over area for secondary free ward off the zombie rune. And yes i do change my trinket to sweeper on my first or second back at most even when i didn't get half of the gold for the support item quest since i know i will get free wards anyway.

woodvsmurphAug 27, 20181 votes

There's a lot more than "autofill" going on. For example, I occasionally play jungle, but I'd basically be considered an autofill jg when I do. Yet I'm more competent in ganking than over 50% of junglers at my elo.

I used to main support, but now I main top. When I'm up for autofill though, I choose support to get my autofill out of the way. If my adc is competent and the other support isn't in the top 10% of supports for my elo, I generally fare just fine vs them - ranging from going even to outright snowballing on them.

If I were to be autofilled adc or mid, I'd probably get wrecked because those roles don't have champs that really fit the way I like to play.

So autofilled isn't always a bad thing and sometimes your autofilled player can do better than people who are in their desired role. Player skill, mentality, etc. come into play. And there's also HOW MUCH and IF your team actually helps you. Like a player might pop off if they got a few good ganks or they might have their lane salvaged if they're losing; but if you don't ever gank, then you won't know. And ganking isn't just for junglers.

HalcyonDwellerAug 27, 20181 votes

I'm interested to see data on this too!

NekoniClawsAug 27, 20181 votes

It's practically a logic problem. I've wondered it myself.

You could speculate that support MMRs will level out with those that have a 50% chance of winning when autofilled. So say that was silver 2--- perhaps a silver 2 autofilled toplaner is just "better at the game". That's one theory.

Perhaps we get less MMR or LP gains vs autofilled. Maybe a 53--55% winrate with no 'climbing'.

Or maybe the system biases against putting autofilled supports vs non-autofilled. I don't feel I face many auto-filled supports... But autofilled supports is one of the BIG things that keeps me from playing ADC.

All theories--- no facts, no real answers.

As for autofilled picks: Low elo, they LOVE AP supports: Velkoz, Brand, Lux. Outside of that-- Blitzcrank, followed by Thresh and Pyke.

Crimson ZeppelinAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's practically a logic problem. I've wondered it myself.

You could speculate that support MMRs will level out with those that have a 50% chance of winning when autofilled. So say that was silver 2--- perhaps a silver 2 autofilled toplaner is just "better at the game". That's one theory.

Perhaps we get less MMR or LP gains vs autofilled. Maybe a 53--55% winrate with no 'climbing'.

Or maybe the system biases against putting autofilled supports vs non-autofilled. I don't feel I face many auto-filled supports... But autofilled supports is one of the BIG things that keeps me from playing ADC.

All theories--- no facts, no real answers.

As for autofilled picks: Low elo, they LOVE AP supports: Velkoz, Brand, Lux. Outside of that-- Blitzcrank, followed by Thresh and Pyke.

Theory wise, if a midlaner gets autofilled, their M.O will be to poke the enemy down first and shove in and then ward. Just like midlane. It is a strong tactic indeed. But the problem is, do they know how deep the wards should be to make them win and not get ganked? Do they know that adcs can farm under tower? The questions that may sway the final number of statistics are numberless. But a interesting fact for Riot to release that is positive for the future.

Daddy AntsAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

As for autofilled picks: Low elo, they LOVE AP supports: Velkoz, Brand, Lux. Outside of that-- Blitzcrank, followed by Thresh and Pyke.

I'd instantly dodge if I had an autofilled support who locked in Pyke or Thresh.

GaliöAug 27, 20181 votes

That would be interesting.

There are 3 bigger interesting factors I think are all intersting to see effects of:

1: we had easier/strong supports like Janna that were perfect for auto fills.

2: Troll auto fills / champ select terrorists when games go through.

3: Pyke is a popular pick whixh would have effected auto fills and decreased the amount over time which can also skew the results...

Vlada CutAug 27, 20181 votes

Hey. I don't main support, it's just an autofil role with same winrate as my main role. [sg-miss-fortune]

Crimson ZeppelinAug 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=guzIwMZ3,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-08-27T22:10:11.322+0000)

Hey. I don't main support, it's just an autofil role with same winrate as my main role. [sg-miss-fortune]

Well, it is my second position to play Velkoz and laser tag when I see zed in midlane. The "exodus" plan.

DweeeblesAug 27, 20181 votes

For that matter you can probably look at any auto-fill position vs a main player, not just support.

fƒ15Aug 28, 20181 votes

Why does this have upvotes, is it not the same to try finding statistics for any other autofilled role? I think I can say something about this though. Playing well can be generalized as a support to stick to adc and help adc carry, but this isn't completely correct. A support can roam and help other lanes this way being a carry, a good support can save team fights, a support can bring to the map a lot more map awareness while denying enemy vision and create plays because of this by making great calls as any other role can, a basic concept is that a good support can save a team mate and turn fights around, etc a lot more. Obviously everyone should be doing their part in vision even though it isn't an easy thing, and honestly I would go on but there are way to many things generalized and thrown out the window here so come to whatever conclusion you want.

Crimson ZeppelinAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why does this have upvotes, is it not the same to try finding statistics for any other autofilled role? I think I can say something about this though. Playing well can be generalized as a support to stick to adc and help adc carry, but this isn't completely correct. A support can roam and help other lanes this way being a carry, a good support can save team fights, a support can bring to the map a lot more map awareness while denying enemy vision and create plays because of this by making great calls as any other role can, a basic concept is that a good support can save a team mate and turn fights around, etc a lot more. Obviously everyone should be doing their part in vision even though it isn't an easy thing, and honestly I would go on but there are way to many things generalized and thrown out the window here so come to whatever conclusion you want.

Because it is a fact that people are genuinely concerned of perhaps? Do autofilled supports behave differently than support mains, or make decisions that may change the outcome of a game. What do they put priority in warding? These are game-changing factors and if Riot has any sort of numbers or stats they should release it to justify their system.

VztahAug 28, 20181 votes

[deleted]

Crimson ZeppelinAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I've been winning my autofill supp games hella bro support doesn't seem too hard (though I don't really bother buying those support items that require you too press numbers except the vision one (seems hella extra to get them.))

Auto-fill in any position and there will be differences in performance unless you're used to playing all roles against all preferable tier picks as they are in said/given meta/time-space. (I guess it doesn't matter if you have enough game knowledge but even then not everyone keeps track of all of the changes...kill/dueling potential can change among other things.)

I have no idea.

Feels fine disregarding all the people whining about it I don't get why it's so hard to take an auto-fill in stride especially when you get auto-protect anyway maybe it isn't maybe it is I got no idea. Can't think of anything unfair disregarding differences in experience. I can't speak for others but I tend to do well so I feel pretty pumped.

Probably. I tend to go for fiddlesticks, brand, and morgana (nautilus and leona if they're free rotation (maybe roll the odd volibear/nasus support that's hella fun against the right matchup bot lane.))

There's probably no point to me posting but I'm kinda bored.

Honestly, I do not care what you pick as support if you are autofilled or your mechanics. That is where you are wrong. Not knowing how to create safe perimeters, warding jungle entrances can limit your whole teams movements, and perception of safety. This is why the support role is thought as the role who has the most influence to the game next to jungle.

Or to put it in a more shorter word, if you do not know how to support, and get autofilled, in theory you can hand your whole team to the enemy on a literal "silver" platter. i want to know if this happens often enough for people to actually worry about it. For me, I say it should not exceed more than 3 to 4 % winrate wise.

Daddy AntsAug 28, 20181 votes

A Support main will usually perform better than someone who's autofilled to the role.

Due to the Support main having experience in the role and knowing what they need to do.

The difference between an Autofilled support and a Support Main is huge.

There are autofilled players who can play Support decently but they choose not to.

Same as the difference between an autofilled ADC and an ADC Main.

If I see a support in a game say "Autofilled" I say

Pick something easy to play then, Sona, Soraka, Lulu, Janna, Leona are good for autofills.

Crimson ZeppelinAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted} A Support main will usually perform better than someone who's autofilled to the role. Due to the Support main having experience in the role and knowing what they need to do. The difference between an Autofilled support and a Support Main is huge. There are autofilled players who can play Support decently but they choose not to. Same as the difference between an autofilled ADC and an ADC Main. If I see a support in a game say "Autofilled" I say Pick something easy to play then, Sona, Soraka, Lulu, Janna, Leona are good for autofills.

It can be "assumed" that is the outcome. But if say a extremely seasoned mage main gets autofilled and picks a mage support, against a support main what are his chances of winning? Does it make the match "balanced" out in the end?

(Personally, I think Janna and lulu are too difficult for silvers since they typically shield their allies after they are hit. It is also the reason why morgana supports never seem to work against blitzcrank picks there.)

Modl Ryden lAug 28, 20181 votes

This is something I've been wondering too. I know in the past, before they tweaked shields, it was common for autofillers to just pick Janna or Lulu since all you did was shield at a decent enough time to let your bot lane partner do the rest of the work. However that came with some downsides of the player not knowing how to play the role fully.

Some players see support as a heal bot / shield bot that can just press their shield/heal ability and go into 50 IQ mode. Some also don't know how lane trading works and the 'venn diagram' of support reach. So there is discrepency in skill for sure. Some just take the role less seriously that others because they go filled into it.

Other roles I'd guess that they take it somewhat more serious since it's most likely their worst role so they don't want to end up feeding I guess.

Fondling GemsAug 28, 20181 votes

While it probably isn't quite what you are looking for, you can get a general idea of the difference in effectiveness by comparing each support's winrate at 0-5 games played vs 30+ on that champion, since players who are filled support will have far fewer games on the champion.