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Veigar Rework

Flay and Pray··6 votes·2,447 views

After a lot of discussions going on about Veigar since riot said they are working on changing him due to the removal of DFG I decided I would contribute by posting my ideas for him. Before I begin there is one thing everyone is forgetting. THEY WILL ADD A NEW 120 AP ITEM!This is important to understand when addressing this issue. Let alone it won't be as powerful for Veigar as DFG was due to them not wanting to have an instantaneous burst. I do however feel Veigar is a bit niche at the moment and is no doubt cancerous to play against later on. To first rework him you have to look at his strengths and weaknesses:

Strengths:

  • Infinite Scaling
  • 2.5 second instantaneous stun
  • High scalings and ratios

Weaknesses:

  • Low range
  • Bad early game
  • High mana problems

In order to rework Veigar you cannot remove his weaknesses, but instead make his strengths worth the trouble to get there. One of the biggest misconceptions about Veigar is that he is amazing late game. However, like most mages Veigar has huge drawbacks late game. Mostly due to tanks, longer ranged champions, banshees veils and merc treads he can't engage or burst many people late. Even if he can he just bursts one person and leaves. This rework I propose gives him some counterplay to those problems while also giving him more counterplay himself. So without further adieu here is my Veigar rework:

Passive: Equilibrium Every 30 seconds Veigar's next damaging ability does 5% increased damage and gives him a burst of (3x current level) movement speed.

Q: Baleful Strike RANGE: 800 COST: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65/ 70 MANA COOLDOWN: 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 / 4

ACTIVE: Unleashes dark energy in a target direction, dealing magic damage. If this ability deals a killing blow, Veigar gains 1 ability power permanently (doubled against large minions, large monsters, and champions). If this ability is cast through one of event horizons walls, it does 30% increased damage.

PASSIVE: Veigar gains 1/2/3/4/5 extra AP for killing champions.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 50% AP)

W: Dark Matter RANGE: 900 COST: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 MANA COOLDOWN: 10

ACTIVE: Veigar channels a mass of dark matter to a target location. After finishing the channel or canceling it early the mass hits the ground and does damage in a 150 radius. If this ability lands within event horizons walls it stuns for 1.5 seconds.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 120 / 170 / 220 / 270 / 320 (+ 110% AP) fully charged

This ability also provides sight of the target area through Fog of War or brushes before it lands.

E: Event Horizon RANGE: 650 COST: 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 MANA COOLDOWN: 15/14/13/12/11

ACTIVE: Veigar twists the edges of space around the 375-radius target area for 3 seconds, enemies who pass through the walls are slowed. After the duration is over, the walls collapse upon each other doing a slight amount of damage to enemies caught in them.

MAGIC DAMAGE 60/80/90/110/130 (+40% AP) SLOW PERCENTAGE: 20/30/40/50/60

R: Primordial Burst RANGE: 800 COST: 125 / 175 / 200 MANA COOLDOWN: 130 / 110 / 90

ACTIVE: After a brief channel, Veigar blasts an enemy with a ball of pure dark energy. This channel can be canceled by hard CC.

Passive: If Veigar kills an enemy champion with his ult he gains "Supernova" for 10 seconds. During this time his passive is permanently up.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 250 / 375 / 500 (+ 150% AP).

One of the main things I feel like Veigar should do is charge up his abilities. While he is a very experienced magus he has a tiny body and should have to channel power before being able to cast such powerful abilities. I also felt like Veigar needed a new passive due to his current 0 interaction passive that only poorly attempts to fix one of his problems. I lowered his mana costs a bit but wanted to keep them fairly high due to his ult passive and passive. I gave his E more counter play by making him a sort of "master of magics" being able to manipulate his basic abilities with his now much more available E. His R also has some counterplay, having a cast time similar to Rek'Sai's ult and being able to be canceled with CC. I'm no riot designer so there are of course some flaws with this design especially in the numbers, but I made this to spark some imagination, ingenuity and hype for the rework of my favorite tiny master of evil.

If you have any suggestions I'm open to them all and will probably change things along the way!

5 Comments

The Paulrus1 votes

Dislike this as it would be a huge nerf.

Passive: Will drastically weaken Veigar's early game, which is against the mage theme of great early, decent mid, average late game. Keep the passive the same. Q- Removing scaling of his AP farm on champs is a terrible nerf to his farming ability. W- I'm honestly okay with. I like the stun potential there. E- HOLY FUCK NO! Adding MR Shred of 25%?!?! Add another 40 magic pen from Liandrys/Boots/Runes and another 35% from VS, you're looking at a 40+~50% MR pen (VS and E as multiplicative, not additive). That's a HUGE problem. That makes an R a one hit kill easy. I'd recommend having it proc a 60% slow for 3 seconds, making his W easier to land. I do like the idea of it doing damage when it collapses, though. R- DEAR GOD, WHY?!?! Interrupt-able by damage makes him useless in teamfights as well as soloing anyone with a ranged poke or a gap close (like, hmm, I don't know, almost every mid laner?) Keep his Ult the same, or, if you really feel the need to nerf his Q scaling, give him a +5 AP bonus/champion kill (equal to what the old Q was at max level). As far as the supernova passive, I think giving him a flat CD reduction (reset) would be a better option. Reduces cooldowns of all other spells by 3/5/7 seconds. Give the slow, squishy, bursty mage more burst potential.

Flay and Pray1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Paulrus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gkE7wHJm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-21T19:38:57.539+0000)

Dislike this as it would be a huge nerf.

Passive: Will drastically weaken Veigar's early game, which is against the mage theme of great early, decent mid, average late game. Keep the passive the same. Q- Removing scaling of his AP farm on champs is a terrible nerf to his farming ability. W- I'm honestly okay with. I like the stun potential there. E- HOLY FUCK NO! Adding MR Shred of 25%?!?! Add another 40 magic pen from Liandrys/Boots/Runes and another 35% from VS, you're looking at a 40+~50% MR pen (VS and E as multiplicative, not additive). That's a HUGE problem. That makes an R a one hit kill easy. I'd recommend having it proc a 60% slow for 3 seconds, making his W easier to land. I do like the idea of it doing damage when it collapses, though. R- DEAR GOD, WHY?!?! Interrupt-able by damage makes him useless in teamfights as well as soloing anyone with a ranged poke or a gap close (like, hmm, I don't know, almost every mid laner?) Keep his Ult the same, or, if you really feel the need to nerf his Q scaling, give him a +5 AP bonus/champion kill (equal to what the old Q was at max level). As far as the supernova passive, I think giving him a flat CD reduction (reset) would be a better option. Reduces cooldowns of all other spells by 3/5/7 seconds. Give the slow, squishy, bursty mage more burst potential.

Passive: This is the only one I know I will change, although Veigar is NOT supposed to be great early. He's supposed to be amazing mid game and decent late game.

Q: I kept the AP off champions don't know what you mean.

W: Love you to

E: I changed it from MR shred to a slow a while ago. Also I made the W much easier to land. It's range is larger and you can call it down instantly whenever you finish channeling.

R: Can only be interrupted with CC and has the channel time of Rek'Sais ult. It definitely does not make him useless. I want to keep Veigars identity of bursting one person, but make him useful afterwards. Giving him resets could be awfully broken.

Overall I do not see your problem.

501st Big Mike1 votes

These seem like some interesting changes, I am however concerned on how hard it would be for Veigar to get his stun off. One of the things about Veigar is he needs to stun people quickly, or he can be bursted down by an assassin or a tank can cc him for their team to finish Veigar off. As it is, Veigar does have some degree of difficulty landing his e correctly to force people to be stunned, and is one of his clearly defined weakness (especially late game where banshees have come out). The stun on these abilities would be even harder to land (need 2 abilities to hit same champion at around same time), and usually Veigar can't do much without his stun landing first.

The Red Warden1 votes

This seems to focus on auto-attacks quite a bit with the ult and passive changes. The problem with that though is that Veigar's theme is the classic mage that starts off pitiful but left unchecked becomes a monster. A powerful mage does not focus on mundane auto attacks; a mage focuses on spells.

One reason his e is so strong is that it is suicide for him to leave his turret without it. When Veigar uses his E a signal goes off in your opponents head that he is now utterly defenseless. With what you planned out Veigar would get killed the second he leaves tower whenever flash is down. That is not fun for anyone. You would also have to waste an e and w cast just to get an effect you could do in one cast before. That would heavily reduce his burst too which is the main point of playing Veigar.

Flay and Pray1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Red Warden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gkE7wHJm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-01-21T22:49:57.541+0000)

This seems to focus on auto-attacks quite a bit with the ult and passive changes. The problem with that though is that Veigar's theme is the classic mage that starts off pitiful but left unchecked becomes a monster. A powerful mage does not focus on mundane auto attacks; a mage focuses on spells.

One reason his e is so strong is that it is suicide for him to leave his turret without it. When Veigar uses his E a signal goes off in your opponents head that he is now utterly defenseless. With what you planned out Veigar would get killed the second he leaves tower whenever flash is down. That is not fun for anyone. You would also have to waste an e and w cast just to get an effect you could do in one cast before. That would heavily reduce his burst too which is the main point of playing Veigar.

His passive only works with damaging abilites so he is still focused as a Mage. His E should still be enough to peel for him especially since it's easier for him to pop banshees now. I made the W large enough that if he needed to he could stun almost instantaneously.

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