On the occasion times when I'm not supporting and head over to mid, i find there a re a few cerian champs
I have yet to learn how to beat. When i go mid, I tend to go 
and occasionally 
However, no matter what champ I am, I can't seem to figure out how to battle evenly against those two and usually end up turret hugging and desperately trying not to feed. Any tips for going against those two?
Astôlfo4 votesTo start off, if I knew I was going against Kat, I'd probably pick AD since they have Hexdrinker, and then after that, someone with decently fast and/or point-and click CC. But the CC takes priority over AD, so AP champions like Morgana or Annie or such could work as well. I'd generally abuse her until level 6 because her early is fairly weak and can't have a kill potential really unless it's just a mess up on my part. After 6, I'd make sure to have said CC on hand ready at pretty much any time and dance around the edges of Kat's Shunpo range to force her to Shunpo if she wants to ult, but not too far away she wouldn't Q-hit. Bait, lure her in, when she tries to ult, hit her with CC and kit, back off. Stuns or displacement to interrupt her ult altogether are best.
Against Yasuo, I'd try and pick non-projectile kits, or fairly simple/fast moving projectiles without too long of a CD or mana cost so his windwall won't be too much of a problem. No offense to you, but you're in B4, like me. At that ELO, Yasuo players are generally garbage. What that means is, they'll probably dash through the entire wave ASAP to just push to tower over and over. Which leaves them with no minions left to dash through. Also, aiming ahead of him when he starts his dash can help tremendously. I'd pick a ranged champion probably, for easy poking of his passive shield whenever it comes up, and so I can avoid staying too close for his knockup. Post-6, I'd stay near tower and respect his ultimate cooldown and call for ganks. He's quite bad at avoiding ganks if he pushes too far. The only thing you have to be careful of is trying to make it so he can't just dash through said jungler to get away.
EDIT: Out of the champions you've listed, Ahri, Veigar, Karthus, and Fiddlesticks are good against Yasuo/Katarina (the first 2-3 being somewhat skill-ish though, requiring you to play smarter). Once they come into range with either their E dash or blink, just hit them in the face with a Charm or Fear and then laugh in their face. Veigar, you have to be smarter with Yasuo and time the cage properly, before he can just dash out (since there's a precursory animation). Also, if he sends a tornado even after you cage him, make sure to dodge, because his ult is a blink and will avoid it altogether. After that point, just hit him with Q/W, and if his windwall is down, then ult if necessary for a kill. With Katarina, wait till her Shunpo is down before you cage and then just smack her in the face again. With Veigar though, I'd generally just ignore her altogether and focus on farming your Q stacks. If she tries to go for a kill, she'll likely Shunpo, so just drop the cage on top of yourself point blank. With Karthus, against Yasuo, just giggle as he tries to windwall your Q or ultimates or literally anything else in your kit. You probably won't kill him, but it'll be a hellishly infuriating experience when he realizes he really can't do anything to you provided you sidestep his tornadoes. And even if you don't, you can generally play near tower enough to punish him if he does ult. Against Kat, use slow-wall after Shunpo and just bombard her with Qs and your AoE and force her to back. Fiddlesticks is bloodydamn hilarious because if they burn their gapcloser on you, you can just Fear and Ult for a near guaranteed kill.
agbudar4 votes
is really good and simple to learn
has a kit that shits on people that have to get close.
make em towerdive you, them slap them with everything you got
if you are short on time just use E>W>R then ignite during your ult channel (this will not break the channel)
also with E + W malz can farm from a distance.
takeZOOOOOO3 votesbeating yas
this is quite difficult if ur not a competitive player or are good you need to actually put in effort if u want to win
beating kat
kek. im guessing u dont even played ranked?
Disulfiram2 votesKarthus counters Yasuo (and Fiddle counters Kata) so hard it's not even funny.
Karthus counters Yasuo because he plays extremely safe early, while mid-late he slaughters all the minions Yasuo could dash to without even trying, all while making WindWall useless.
Fiddle counters Kata by sheer CC and sustain: Kata can't wear Fiddle down (unless he goes for a no mana build, of course) and simpy can't ult with him around; also, she has no way to stop or evade a Fiddle ult except by warding or Eing to a minion or ward - which might not be there, if you're playing correctly.
Raksha1 votesThanks for the info! I never knew about Kar countering yas, but i had heard about fiddle countering Kat before. In a normal draft, i was going mid and i saw my opponent would be kat, so i picked fiddle for the counter. Sadly, i didn't know exactly how to counter her and ended up getting slaughtered. (yes, i did build ap, but she ended up killing me faster than i could hit her) This might be because, i admit, i am still quite new to fiddle. Any tips on how i could get around that?
Disulfiram1 votesPlay him :D
Aside from that: Fiddle's Q has a split second of cast time, so obviously you need to survive at least that long if you want to fight kata: if you survive her burst, after that she deals low enough dps that you can outheal it with W.
To that end, I'd suggest buying 
and 
, both very good items on Fiddle that also happen to help vs Kata's burst.
wouldn't be bad, but imho it takes too long to ramp up for this matchup.
I also like to buy 
on Fiddle, for it gives plenty of mana and very nice CDR - which means W is pretty much always up, Q too, and you can also R more often. And this is not even conidering how much damage does its AP add to your kit!
Other suggestion: max Q last. In this matchup you need it to stop her ult, so you don't need it to last longer but could really use the waveclear from E and sustain/dps from W.
Avienal2 votesOn the occasion times when I'm not supporting and head over to mid, i find there a re a few cerian champs
Just as Xilixer said, it helps to use simple counter measures to 'gut' the champions of most of the damage they can dish out, especially if you can build a item which also can be used as a powerful measure for your damage too.
For AD champions against annoying AP champions like ,
, , 
and so on. The Important part is to know you can build MR alternatives like 
, 
and even 
.
Especially since one can be great for a champion with high attack speed spree'striking which will let you yoink a large amount of MR off the enemy target so they end up taking more AP damage and you take even less as a result, Another being the prime item for ruining a AP champion from burst'ing you down thanks to the magic shield plus Life'line's bonus to give you a full 10% lifesteal/spellvamp to let you regain your health back fast and flip a trade where most combo oriented AP champions are already stuck on cool down and likely will die if they can't get away. Plus Mercurial Scimitar is a very deceptive item then people think because it gives decent life steal, damage and MR but the 'enhanced' debuff purge which grants 50% move speed for 1 second gives you that perfect measure to escape or gap rush to tear into a enemy champion, it especially shows its use when it can be used to cancel out Bard's own standard gag of going thru a portal and hitting you with Q soon as you chase for a free stun.
As for AP champions against enemies, some people forget some interesting items exist that can be also just as deceptively useful, for example: 
may not seem as good of an item as Abyssal scepter in terms of MR and it fits more of a support item, but it is another item which can make a match go scary since it has for one thing, the flip version of abyssal scepter by granting a +15 MR 'Aura', plus it has a few other stats such as granting Health and Health Regen which can lead to some very useful sustain power for AP champions.
The Promote effect acts as another useful gimmick because you can promote a unit every 2 minutes which can let you setup a strong minion to push a lane up or hold it long enough for your waves to catch up, especially while roaming for team fights. Which in my experience can lead to minions pushing lanes up by themselves if left uncheck and by making use of and 
, it can lead especially into some scary mid to late game lane control since you could constantly keep moving around in the jungle, picking off any 'alone' targets by using wards to keep vision everywhere and constantly put up and promote minions to have them break the turrets and inhibitors or force enemy champions to keep attention or push lanes themselves which makes it easier for your team to push another lane, focus on objectives or take down opponents.
Items with both Armor and Attack damage don't really exist and only Zhonya's really exist that gives AP and Armor, so its a good idea to get creative with items due to them having unique utilities or they could be better means to counter an opponent entirely, such as 
which gives strong sustain power and Armor but since it lets you get mobile by running past turrets and you can shut a turret down for 3 seconds, it can be a good Helper item or a 'Gank' from a jungle ally or someone else, especially when against AD champions since you could shut down a turret long enough so you can 'dive' under it or your jungler can to finish off a running opponent. I don't usually see people run because of other items like Spirit Visage, Deadman's plate or they are too busy building their 'Core' Items, they can't focus on defensive items along the way too.
Creative measures can usually win a match, especially if you know why your building it and how it can contribute for your team more then just building 'staple cores' that have the same bland utilities that everyone snatches up instead of building alternatives with utilities that could show more promise, whether its in team fights or controlling objectives better.
[slayer-jinx-catface]
Raksha1 votesSo much information, thank you!!! I'll definitely check out those items a bit more and take heed of your advice c:
GULAG 4 U2 votesKatarina has a shitty as fuck laneing phase, how do you lose vs it? Hell kha'zix mid shits on both kata and yasuo ANY day.
Xilixer1 votesvel'koz shouldnt have to much trouble. his range outdoes everyone mid except xerath and lux but has more burst. stay at max range and keep poking them. but constantly play cautious. never cast your e as a poke. only wait to e when yasuo dashes in or katarina ults. if you time it right youll completely counter them for a wombo combo. always go flash and barrier as barrier lets you stick in the fight longer with against these champs.
besides that i cant help much as i dont play the others. veigar id guess to set his stun arena on himself.
if your facing yasuo rush hourglass and for katarina build abyssal sceptor asap. after those items continue your build.
edit:hourglass works on katarina too as using it during her ult will negate her damage and leave her useless.
Raksha1 votesThanks for the advice, I'll be sure to buy hourglass now as it seems it'll really help c:
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesdiana beats kat 10/10 times mid lane. yasuo. azir is his hardest counter mid. however azir is trash now. so good luck wit hthat.
Raksha1 votesI guess I'm lucky i have yet to face Diana in mid then ^^;
takeZOOOOOO1 votesazir beats yas
hes definitely a tough match up when he used to be strong but it was very likely to ouplay him if ur smart but in this case OP wouldnt beat yas with azir nerfed or pre-nerfs. why? because azir is a hard champion for even some of the high elo players and they cant play him well, so OP cant use azir to beat yasuo here because hes prolly under diamond which is not even high elo
Buff Jax please1 votesHow can you lose as Ahri?
Raksha1 votesI'm still very new to both arhi and fiddle.
Mordepool1 votesKat vs ahri match up. Never use your e. Kats will wait til you cast then shunpo in. Hold your e for when she shunpos in. Yasou (hes a problem) Pop his shield with aa. Wait use 1 ability rinse repeat thats all the counterplayhe has
Raksha1 votesOk, thanks for the advice c: I usually try to e her closer but like you said, she'd shunpo immediately after, so from now on I'll save it for that.
Tychusfindlay9191 votes
unleash your inner mid carrius the darius
Raksha1 votesSadly i don't have Darius QAQ
Seenan1 votesVery easily.
Yas: Pick anything that ignores his windwall with spells (ie, goes through it) like Annie. You can W and R, but not Q through his wall. Or Cass, who can fuck up his dashing (but Cass E, and R can be walled I think). Pretty sure Fiddle can just fear him as he gets close to you. Then drain. But why Fiddle mid, tbh? For Ahri, dash away when he ults in. The idea in general is to bait out his wall, then zone him/harass/kill him that way.
Kat: Pick literally anything with instant displacement or cc. Or pick an AD mid so you can abuse Hexdrinker if necessary. You use Velk, Ahri, Fiddle, and Veigar (but his stun is a tad delayed). All of those champs can cc Kat out of her ult. Buy an Abyssal so you don't insta die. Save your ccs for when she jumps in.
MissMikasa1 votesMainly because those champions you play, Yas and Kat shit on them. Pick champs like Annie, Morg or Diana who counter them. Diana especially counters the heck out of Kat because her E disrupts Kat's ult and she has a better all in. Her shield helps negate Yasuo's attacks and she has better fighting potential then him too.
Annie just stuns the shit out of Yas, but can have a harder time with Kat- good Kat's wait til you use your stun on farm then bam go all in at 6 and you're dead in a second.
I've beaten Kat with Sona before, it isn't that hard. Of course that player could've just been bad as all get out but still Sona isn't much of a mid laner.
Jungle Brungus1 votesYou abuse katarinas shitty lane phase until 6, then she kills you, runs bot and kills them, then kills everything and gromp and you lose. Then, if you chose a mage champ like you probably are, you lose to yasuo (who is almost entirely match-up dependent if theyre semi-decent). Plain and simple no loopholes a good yasuo is unbeatable in the lane phase with his loaded kit with most of those champs and will probably kill you, your bot, and your gromp. LoL needs more reworks than they can bolster out.
Revali1 votesfiddlesticks is your best bet against kat if you really struggle with her from your champion pool. the point and click fear and silence if you don't use them early stops her channeling, and can essentially drain back to full because she just lost her grievous wounds to stop that healing tether till she gets out of range
but if you wanna learn a new champ that 100% counters her, try lissandra. she's also very strong against yasuo.
Xilixer1 votesshould really listen to agbudar, malzahar is a hard counter for any melee champ that tries to go in. while malzahars kit more than likely wont 100-0 them. he is still going to completely shut them down in lane.
Surr20plz1 votesYou're really asking how fiddle stops kat?
Maximum Morde1 votesMordekaiser.
Toastersaot1 votesFor Yasuo, sacrifice some damage for 
. The 12% reduction for his autos is very good, and with the recent nerfs he needs 100% Crit chance for consistent armor pen.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesAs
against or get your Q to level 2 and E to level 1 then put an extra point in W when you get a chance... if you're feeling sexy you can even put a 3rd point into W. But make sure you have 5 points in Q by level 10. These champs suck at wave control and can do nothing but push. Don't bother tossing Q at yasuo if it isn't a guaranteed hit. He will come to you if you hit the minion wave. Against ahri yasuo just pushes obsessively or gets wrecked while he's pinned down under tower where he will struggle to farm after the first few minion grabs due to repositioning and potentially wasted poke he'd have to use to get his farm. Just let him have room to breathe when his enhanced Q is up. When the wave arrives don't even give one shit, just toss a Q into the wave or threaten to do so which preemptively challenges him to a pushing fight he can't afford to win without wasting his dashes. Anticipate where he will have to dash to and keep W ready. If he wastes his wall to block your low cost as fuck W then just back off and go ham after the wall goes away.
against its the same thing. You get rewarded for aggressive play and just shoving the lane. Against this one however she is going to be dealing her damage faster and more reliably. You will want to get out of lane rather than sit around waiting on the jungler to come save her
Against either of the above prioritize mana, cdr, and light defense. AP will help you more against than armor will as long as you aren't messing up terribly due to ahri's passive hence why the mana is important. Against either do not be afraid to take a hit. let them hit you before you panic and use charm. I REPEAT DO NOT PANIC AND USE CHARM AS SOON AS THEY HIT YOU Its similar to old kassadin, you don't charm them while they are on the offensive (not that you had a choice since he silenced) but instead you charm them when they try to disengage if you can or just use the threat of charm to keep them from just turning around and trying to finish the trade. Do not be afraid to autoattack either and get abyssal scepter when you can against kat unless top or bot are excessively easy to kill champs that probably rely on skills to survive that don't work against ahri such as 
WitchQueen Annie1 votesIn lane?
