I love how everyones complaining about yasuo
But 32% health as magic damage on a tahm is completely fair as a god damn tank.
But 32% health as magic damage on a tahm is completely fair as a god damn tank.
People complain about both, last I checked
People complain about everything, last I checked...
Pick a champ, any champ: they've been complained about. Main anyone you want, because whoever you choose just know that the boards hate you for picking that champ. Yes, that champ in particular. They fucking hate you for that champ because that champion is just so much more cheap than their champ, you know, their cheap piece of shit freelo champion. But at least it's better than picking that other champion, because unlike a Vegas whore, that champion isn't even getting paid to suck.
You're an [insert champion here] main? Fuck you, you low elo scrub. That champ literally takes 0 skill at all, good luck fucking climbing with that overloaded piece of shit champion.
It's impossible to fuck up when you have [insert champion attributes here, like "hard CC" or "insane damage". Remember: ALL mobility, regardless of circumstance or purpose, is bullshit, free mobility] all in one stupid fucking kit. Yet, look at that, you're in [insert division here, preferably Bronze, Silver, or any division V] and you haven't even been able to win with your fucking freelo. I bet you're one of the scrubs that complains about Elo Hell all the time, even though [insert reason to disprove Elo Hell, either by statistics, quotes, or just plain gloating].
Go fucking uninstall, [derogatory term].
Xerath?
Literally everyone would encompass Xerath. There has seriously not been a single champion to escape being complained about on the forums/boards - even Vel'koz, the poster child of balance in the eyes of many on the boards, has been complained about.
even Vel'koz, the poster child of balance in the eyes of many on the boards, has been complained about.
People don't complain much about Tahm because not a whole lot needs to be argued since his fanbase has the capability of understanding that he's too strong. It's just an accepted fact that he needs nerfed, will most likely be very soon, and people are just waiting for it to happen.
COUGH 5% missing hp per tentacle strike
Everyone is complaining about Tahm, what the fuck are you talking about?
A lot of people that complain about Yasuo dont find him to be OP. They just find him to be an obnoxious, overloaded piece of shit that sucks the fun out of the match. Even when he is weak i hate seeing his stupid face in my matches.
You are comparing two completely different champions.
Yasuo is fine the way he is, Tahm is a problem when top they need to remove his devourer eating lane minions then his wave clear will be harshly nerfed from that then we can see how it goes.
Yasuo is fine the way he is
Yeah no. Yasuo is massively overpowered.
Tahm Kench is a common ban in Diamond bracket... slightly less common than Yasuo in my experience but still fairly common. Point being; People do realize TK is overpowered but he pales in comparison to Yasuo.
Yasuo only benefited when shiv and warlord are insane now that they're nerfed yasuo is back to being a champ who takes skill to outplay your opponent. Although he's easy to deal with by freezing, zoning, harassing with basics and spells to keep him lackluster until mid game so he's easier to deal with, unless they're bad then they die to this.
yasuo is back to being a champ who takes skill to outplay your opponent.
ROFL. He has infinite mana. He is one of the most mobile champions in the game with zero penalty for doing so. He scales harder than 95% of the cast of characters. His laning is both incredibly safe and incredibly oppressive. He has multiple defense mechanisms/escape mechanisms. Double AoE stun. Auto shield for sustain.
Yasuo is brainlessly easy because of how effective and forgiving his gameplay is.
[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g88uTsBg,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T00:00:48.422+0000)
ROFL. He has infinite mana. He is one of the most mobile champions in the game with zero penalty for doing so. He scales harder than 95% of the cast of characters. His laning is both incredibly safe and incredibly oppressive. He has multiple defense mechanisms/escape mechanisms. Double AoE stun. Auto shield for sustain.
Yasuo is brainlessly easy because of how effective and forgiving his gameplay is.
I'm not even gonna bother. You can't argue with an opinion formed entirely from ignorance and contempt.
[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g88uTsBg,comment-id=00000000000000000002,timestamp=2015-11-29T00:45:32.552+0000)
I'm not even gonna bother. You can't argue with an opinion formed entirely from ignorance and contempt.
Translation: I have no counter argument so I will run away with my flimsy little tail between my legs.
Yasuo has a 45.5% winrate in diamond, the elo in which you and I play. You've never played Yasuo once in a ranked games in the thousands you've played since his release. I simply don't have the time nor the inclination to go into how most of what you said is wrong. The fact that you used the words "safe" and "forgiving" to describe anything about Yasuo immediately shows you have no idea what you're talking about. There's a reason Yasuo dies more than any other champion in the game.
[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g88uTsBg,comment-id=0000000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T01:26:54.933+0000)
Yasuo has a 45.5% winrate in diamond
Lee/Thresh/Riven also have under 50% win rate. They were extremely prevalent in worlds, you know this, you also know they generally hover around under 50%. Your argument is nonsense and easily refuted.
I'm disappointed that someone that is at my bracket would present such awful arguments...
Defends Yasuo - Is a massive Yasuo fanboy with over 500 matches with Yasuo
What a surprise... no wonder your arguments were so flimsy.
Why the fuck are you talking about Worlds? Worlds was on 5.18. We're at 5.23 now, get with the times. Riven now has a 7% lower winrate than she did during the worlds patch. Yasuo is now 5% lower. Neither of them would have seen a single game in competitive play in their current state.
I'm disappointed that a diamond player would use such an blatantly irrelevant argument. Might as well complain that Morde is still OP because he was 100% pick ban at worlds.
And of course I defend Yasuo. I constantly have to deal with ignorant people that massively overrate his strengths, downplay his weaknesses if they'll even admit he has any, and are constantly trying to get him gutted just because they don't like him personally. You haven't played a single fucking game of Yasuo, no wonder you have such an out of whack understanding of the champion. I may be biased towards Yasuo and you may be biased against Yasuo, but at least my bias is based on actual experience with the champion and not just salty tears.
[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g88uTsBg,comment-id=000000000000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T02:30:51.635+0000)
Why the fuck are you talking about Worlds? Worlds was on 5.18. We're at 5.23 now
Sure the game is different now, but the same general premise applies. It's still the same game.
Riven now has a 7% lower winrate than she did during the worlds patch. Yasuo is now 5% lower.
They have always had a relatively low win rate, again, you know this... you are wasting my time.
I'm disappointed that a diamond player like me would fanboy-defend Yasuo
You should be.
For someone who derided someone else for weak arguments, sometimes yours are pretty piss-weak and very transparent...
You sound like the guy summed up by saying "Statistics matter, until they're no longer convenient for my purposes."
For someone who derided someone else for weak arguments, sometimes yours are pretty piss-weak and very transparent...
You sound like the guy summed up by saying "Statistics matter, until they're no longer convenient for my purposes."
I don't think you understood what he was saying... He said that those three champs who were prevalent in worlds despite having a moderate to lower than expected win rate % so Yasuo's lower win rate doesn't actually act as real evidence, especially after a major patch change where all win rates don't mean all that much for a period except in extreme trends (generally high values, not low).
Slamurai hasn't provided a single sound argument, yet, and Dominick hasn't expanded on his since the initial post, only deflated Slamurai's failed attempts.
-The Worst base stats in the game, next to anivia. -The hell are you talking about infinite mana? His kit would be shit if he had mana, compare his Q to something like a Xerath's, 10x more powerful. But gated by mana. -Scales incredibly, meaning he does NOTHING if he isn't fed, unless he has the entire comp built around him, he is insanely item reliant. (He's also a hyper carry so he needs to scale hard) -Has 2 defensive mechanisms, if he didn't have them, he would be shit, you could catch him out with ease any time he made a mistake at all due to him being insanely squishy. -He doesn't have a stun -Needs the shield so he doesn't get completely destroyed in lane due to being melee and having no range at all, unless he goes close melee range to get stacks on Q, which then pushs your wave, making you more vulnerable if you try to cs. -If he's so easy why does he have the second highest mastery curve of any champion? He winrate is terrible at when the player has a small amount of games on him.
I admit though he's much to strong after the current patch. But most of what your saying is incredibly inaccurate, just the new shiv and cloak, allow him to reach his power spike much earlier, and stronger, getting rid of some of his big weakness's like being heavily item reliant.
Hm, move his Intent passive to R? Leveling R grants him 1/4 of his current critical strike chance/ 1/2 of his critical strike chance/ double critical strike chance.
So I suppose you find it ridiculously ironic his title is "the Unforgiven"?
All Yasuo needs to do is get a good CS and he is at 100% crit (so 100% chance of life steal per hit after cd in masteries) before the 20 min mark and with his windwall there is not really a reason for him to be worried about the ranged champ across him trying to interrupt him. And the fact that he basically gets a free shield every few seconds isn't something that you can just ignore. Yes you can argue the whole "Yasuo is an Anti ranged melee" or "That's what makes Yasuo great", but the fact is casting a spell you can just stand on and give no shit about ranged attacks is about as much skill as it takes
to reflect damage at a trigger happy auto attacking opponent. If you want to talk about a Champ that takes skill, try
where none of your spells guarantee anything and without proper skill become of little to no use as the game progresses. Sorry but as far as I am concerned
takes more skill than
.
Except that "noskill windwall" is a skillshot on 26 second CD. Most abilities are not even close to that long. Learn how to bait it out and abuse it.
"but but all he has to do is farm'
Sounds like every mid game/ late game champ
to name a few
Most abilities are not even close to that long.
Yet the abilities that it's used to block have cooldowns twice as long as windwall. Why its edge can delete an entire Nami ult is beyond me.
Because it registers as one huge projectile so It still gets the Yasuo middle finger.
False. Not every ability you use on him is blocked. In lane most abilities like Lux q,e have 6 seconds CDs compared to the 26 cd. Why? Because it's a projectile thats why. Need any more info?
Yes, How do you expect a mage to poke at him without drinking their entire mp bar while he is moving in and out of minions procing a shield and throwing tornadoes that give a nice "fuck you" to minion shields? No Seriously, tell me how this is possible and please don't say "wait for the wall to drop and then punish" because I would have to be playing a complete idiot in order for something like that to even begin to work.
Windwall is 26 second CD so it shouldn't be a problem in lane. If you're playing a skill shot reliant mage then Yasuo normally does against you, so if he E's around the wave like that it means he's pushing it. This means he can't do anything to harass you near tower. Your fault for picking it into him. It'll be like me picking Jax into Renekton and then complaining after I get shit on by a good Renekton. If the renekton pushes the wave i get FREE farm. It's good for me. Also pushing = ez ganks.
If you're not a moron and don't counterpick yourself then you can pick something like Cho, Malza, Anivia, etc and shit on him. Not hard. He has a 46% win rate for a reason. I know using your brain to beat him is to much for you.
Ok lets say his wall is down because you blew a skill. If you don't have another damaging skill, you can't get though his passive shield without being perilously close.
If yasuo wards well, then he can easily escape ganks with his ms. Or, he'll just clear the entire wave and hang back to regen his shield.
Now, as a mage, you're left to farm under turret. GL with that.
Counterpicking only works if yasuo isn't picked last, and doesn't work in normals at all.
His passive is popped with an auto. Once it's popped and he has no windwall he can't really dash and trade with you unless you're low because it's too dangerous and you would end up winning the trade most times.
If Yasuo clears the wave (pushes) then that's good for you since "Yasuo counters you." Also opens him up for ganks. No yasuo will push the wave just because his passive is down (unless they're bad, in this case it's free win anyways)
And his windwall won't do shit in a gank unless it's like a nidale with no CC. If you know how to bait him then all your jungler has to do is walk into the lane and Yasuo is dead
Most times Yasuo isn't picked last because rarely does last pick get mid. And as I said in previous posts, normals are for practice, so you should be happy to get challenged in them. If you for some reason take them seriously, the Yasuo's in normals usually are good (using norms for practice) and are a free win anyways.
His passive is popped with an auto. Once it's popped and he has no windwall he can't really dash and trade with you unless you're low because it's too dangerous and you would end up winning the trade most times.
So he has to play like an immobile melee hypercarry now? The horror.
If Yasuo clears the wave (pushes) then that's good for you since "Yasuo counters you." Also opens him up for ganks. No yasuo will push the wave just because his passive is down (unless they're bad, in this case it's free win anyways)
What are wards, and how will you possibly turret farm as a mage. Ap yi used to do exactly this and it was the most frustrating thing for a projectile mage.
And his windwall won't do shit in a gank unless it's like a nidale with no CC. If you know how to bait him then all your jungler has to do is walk into the lane and Yasuo is dead
Blocking all ranged cc is now useless.
Most times Yasuo isn't picked last because rarely does last pick get mid. And as I said in previous posts, normals are for practice, so you should be happy to get challenged in them. If you for some reason take them seriously, the Yasuo's in normals usually are good (using norms for practice) and are a free win anyways.
Well yes, because this game actually doesn't rely on counterpicking that much, so mid can just pick whatever and roll with it. Unless you're playing with good players, who realize that counterpicks can determine the outcome. Good yasuos are never free wins, because they'll use their 10 tools to cheese you at every opportunity. You probably play with so many poor yasuo players that you think being able to use his skills as well as the mage is being good.
"So he has to play like an immobile melee hypercarry now? The horror."
What? I just told you how to abuse his CDs and you're complaining still? Stop bitching for once please.
"What are wards, and how will you possibly turret farm as a mage. Ap yi used to do exactly this and it was the most frustrating thing for a projectile mage."
As a jungle main I'll tell you that there are 4 possible ways to gank mid (with any champ) and much more if you're playing someone like Lee Sin with mobility. He can't possibly ward every single area especially not early on.
"And how will you farm under turret as a mage?" LOL is this a joke? I play Lux and yes it's not the easiest thing in League and requires practice, but don't tell me it's impossible to farm under tower as a mage. God forbid you have to practice to get good at something, am I right?
"Blocking all ranged cc is now useless"
Yes, it is when you're overextended and you get ganked by a Lee, Xin, Panth, Vi, etc. Only useful against someone like Nidale (as I said).
"Well yes, because this game actually doesn't rely on counterpicking that much, so mid can just pick whatever and roll with it. Unless you're playing with good players, who realize that counterpicks can determine the outcome. Good yasuos are never free wins, because they'll use their 10 tools to cheese you at every opportunity. You probably play with so many poor yasuo players that you think being able to use his skills as well as the mage is being good."
So... you're admitting that counterpicking Yasuo works?
"Good yasuos are never free wins"
No one said anything about good yasuos. In fact, I specifically said that Yasuos in normals usually AREN'T GOOD and are therefore free wins because of it, which is why him being picked in norms shouldn't be a problem for anyone. His 46% win rate speaks for itself.
"You probably play with so many poor yasuo players that you think being able to use his skills as well as the mage is being good."
No idea what you're trying to say here
"So basically, his moment of absolute weakness is as good as any other melee hypercarry. Good to know."
Yeah learn how to abuse and stop bitching
"Stick to one side and ward twice. Ask jungle for ward help. It's not difficult."
Are you doing this on purpose? The argument was that he's easy to gank because he constantly needs to dash onto you to trade. If he's playing safe he won't do shit
"No because if you've really played as lux, you'd realize you would miss at least 1 or two caster minions unless you're indescribably lucky or blow spells."
If you cs well you won't miss any, period. Go into a custom and practice.
"Because you only have the jungler to worry about in a gank?"
That's the main person ganking him and main one he should be worried about. Anyone else is just extra pressure and not needed.
"I'm also admitting that it's not good enough because you can't do it if the other team has half a brain (in ranked) and impossible in normals. Counterpicking only works reliably if either your pick has 0 counters, or you pick last 100% of the time. Neither is true, so it's not reliable."
How does it not work? See Yasuo picked? Go Annie/ Malzahar. Not difficult.
"You literally said they were usually good and free wins. You keep bringing up winrates without realizing they mean nothing alone. But please, keep saying 46%!."
It was a typo. Meant to say "aren't"
Ok lets say his wall is down because you blew a skill. If you don't have another damaging skill, you can't get though his passive shield without being perilously close.
If yasuo wards well, then he can easily escape ganks with his ms. Or, he'll just clear the entire wave and hang back to regen his shield.
Now, as a mage, you're left to farm under turret. GL with that.
Counterpicking only works if yasuo isn't picked last, and doesn't work in normals at all.
You do realize that
As a mage it's Ok to have a challenging time beating a Yasuo. No one complains that squishy fighters have a bad time against renekton. It's not impossible to win, but you need to work for it, OR pick a champ that gets a free win against him.
"Normals" are there for practice. You should be happy to face Yasuos here to get practice against him. Most Yasuos here don't main Yasuo so they're not good and should be an easy win anyways.
You're argument is terrible. You're trying to say that Yasuo is op because he does well against certain champs. Guess what, EVERY champ is like this. Don't pick Vel Koz into him if it bothers you not to win lane automatically. Pick Malzahar, Annie, Leblanc, etc. Yasuo has a 46% win rate for a reason. Hint: Not because he's OP
Bad time doesn't mean invalidate/wreck at all times. Squishy fighters tend to actually outscale or outshine renekton at some point. Yasuo is a hypercarry.
Practicing against bad players is like trying to study calculus by practising addition and pretending it's helping.
Again, picking the right champ is only valid "counterplay" if you can pick last 100% of the time or else you have to predict a yasuo and hope you yourself don't get counter picked.
I've never even said he's op, just that your arguments were mostly wrong in practice.
Protip: winrates don't mean shite alone. I could pull out challenger winrates (which range from 0-100) but it wouldn't prove anything. I assume you realize sample size is important, but that wouldn't help your argument would it :).
You could have a champ that's numerically better played by first time players against a champ that's worse, but played by pros, have the first timers get destroyed, then say since the better champ won less, it's not op.
If you're letting yasuo CS normally you aren't Freezing, Zoning, and Harassing him properly.
Unless you're playing ahri or fizz, no conventional mage is going to be able to do that against even a mediocre yasou player; he has too much mobility to dodge every combo that isn't lock-on, too much free shielding to be punished hard, too much damage to out-duel.
Yet doing this lets lux lane vs him even sometimes resulting in kills
Granted her & morgana can get around his cheap wall with ranged aoe, but everyone is obsessed with assassins mid instead of jungle or top; which relegates them to support roles more often than not. Which is part of why the meta bores me to death.
Hmm now that I think about it I never tried an assassin into yasuo for a long time since the assassin meta died.
But if your lux or morg are support and an assassin is mid you don't have to worry about yasuo in the first place
Now while on the subject do any assassin have trouble with yasuo I honestly don't remember zed/talon much since they're underpowered with the lw nerf.
I'm saying You are more likely to drain your entire mp bar trying to stop him from farming than actually doing enough to make him back. Most mages need at least their Q, W, and E before they can start abusing significantly but since just about all of the tools for said abuse are projectiles, wearing him down is either going to cause you to be in a bad spot or barely do enough to stop him from CS farming while drinking up your mana with his movement, Shield, and Wall. If I am wrong please explain to me how any mage can wear him down. Honestly, If there is something I am missing I'd love to hear it for learning purposes.
Yasuo is fine the way he is,
He's incredibly un-fun to play against when you pick one of the 75% of midlaners that he counters.
I don't know but harassing him out of lane and shutting him down seems fun for me.
Which is not really possible unless you're playing one of the few midlaners who dumps on him, like Brand.
He doesn't counter 75% of the mids. Malza in my opinion is more unfun to play against because all you do is look ult on people. Should we nerf him too?