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Saying a Champion Does No Damage Does NOT Mean I Don't Understand Them

Violet Fields··1 votes·642 views

If you want to skip past the bitching, go past the quotes.

When people say a champion does "no damage," they are either saying:

A. They are used to a different play-style. B. One way is nerfed so they complain about it (what I do all the time) instead of playing it the more effective way. C. The champions are indeed trash. D. The damage scales horribly at some point in the game.

or

E. They don't know the champion and they're just causing a scene.

** WHICH IS NOT MY POINT!**

I've played thousands of games and it's safe to say I've played basically every champion in League of Legends. There's a reason why around 10 champions are not played the way they are suppose to. Most of their expected play styles are apparently completely irrelevant that in order to succeed in a game people have to play them completely differently.

I'm talking about Shaco, Corki, Ziggs, and even Urgot.

Shaco was played AD for a while and now he's mostly played AP. Corki is played in the MID lane because people SAY he's more effective there. Ziggs is now mostly played as an ADC. Urgot is mostly played in the top lane.

When I say Xerath, Aurelion Sol, Ziggs, and Urgot do "no damage" in the early game, I LITERALLY MEAN, THEY DO, NO F***ING DAMAGE! It's why I have to build half tank on Urgot to stay alive enough to deal enough damage. If you just so happen to start playing Ziggs and upgraded your Q first, you'll notice that it doesn't do more than around 80 magic damage at level 1. And in order to conserve mana, you'd only use this on minions, or when you're level 5 and it's rank 3 and then its safe to poke the enemy with it.

This is why Ziggs in the bot lane is so effective because the enemy adc is constantly behind minions on a curved lane where the mid lane is nice and long and it's easy to dodge stuff.

Now compare this to Lux, who only has 3 damaging abilities, 1 is an actual "skill shot", while Ziggs has 4 damaging abilities, all of them being skill shots. All she has to do is land a single Q and you're basically dead if you have below 60% health.

A utility mage does more damage than one with no utility, aside from a slow and knock-up.

Why are almost all champions that have abilities requiring no skill shots (or just 1 that isn't even hard to land) do more damage than ones that are really difficult to pull off and that some champions are completely reliant on them?

Damage wise...

Why are:

Akali Annie Draven Diana Evelynn Fiddlesticks Katarina LeeSin Malphite MasterYi MissFortune Lux Pantheon Viktor Warwick Yasuo

MORE PRACTICAL THAN:

AurelionSol Ezreal Brand KogMaw Urgot Maokai Xerath Zilean ...

Nidalee is a perfect example of a champion with an ability that has a skill shot that's really hard to land and when you do land it, it's very rewarding. I remember when Nidalee was the bane of my existence when I began back in season 3, now I hardly see any skill shot champions being played. Probably because they DON'T DEAL ANY DAMAGE EARLY ON, and people don't like playing as skill shot champions when there are champions that are 10 times more effective.

There are some cases where I'd rather play Velkoz over Xerath , since Velkoz has his true damage passive while Xerath 's 25% magic penetration passive was removed LONG AGO because what's the point? Why would I risk the game playing Xerath since basically all of his skill shots are in a STRAIGHT line while Velkoz is more sophisticated and can help in ganks and team fights even if the enemy team is stacking magic resistance.

You know... ACTUALLY BE USEFUL TO THE TEAM!

By a champion being more sophisticated, I mean their passive is a lot more useful to their overall kit than some throwaway passive saying, "HERE, you get 12 mana by auto attacking every 12 seconds! Wow!"

WELL that's not going to help me at all if, for one, I'm buying mana items anyway, and two, a skill shot champion isn't going to get in melee range in the late game just to take 1 and half seconds to dish out an auto attack if you're then going to die immediately after.

99% of champion passives are actually useful to SOME extent. Who do you think is the other 1% besides Xerath?

Renekton

It's just my opinion...

TL;DR, I want to see a Malzahar Anivia Ezreal Xerath Velkoz Azir AurelionSol Nidalee Corki Heimerdinger Ziggs Brand Karthus , and Zyra in the mid lane again. Not your every day Assassin Mage/Fighter meta.

8 Comments

BLACK REALM GOD4 votes

^_^

you might not realize this or maybe you do, but dont want to admit it.

the reason why certain champions arent as efficient is because riot churned too many of them out just to meet a quota instead of giving them their own individual identities. skip forward almost 10 years later and those old champions have been replaced by newer, better champions. old champions will either be updated (when riot can actually make time to do so) or thrown away and left to rot in their graves.

currently there are about 134 champions i think. 7x19+1 so whatever that is.

those champions are divided into 6 classes. fighter, tank, assassin, mage support, and marksman.

if you look at just the main class and not the sub class you'll see that most of the roster is mage and fighter.

because of this you've seen a lot of those champions getting redesigned and placed into another role with their own unique kit - zyra for example, galio for example, mordekaiser for example.

the problem is that what normally happens is those champions enter with a kit the community isnt familiar with or prepared to deal with due to the uniqueness - which results in early bird nerfs and fanboyism strife.

karthus's kit is fine - the itemization granted is not. what are there like 30 spell shields now?

Violet Fields1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g6BReklH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-30T10:00:52.345+0000)

^_^

you might not realize this or maybe you do, but dont want to admit it.

the reason why certain champions arent as efficient is because riot churned too many of them out just to meet a quota instead of giving them their own individual identities. skip forward almost 10 years later and those old champions have been replaced by newer, better champions. old champions will either be updated (when riot can actually make time to do so) or thrown away and left to rot in their graves.

currently there are about 134 champions i think. 7x19+1 so whatever that is.

those champions are divided into 6 classes. fighter, tank, assassin, mage support, and marksman.

if you look at just the main class and not the sub class you'll see that most of the roster is mage and fighter.

because of this you've seen a lot of those champions getting redesigned and placed into another role with their own unique kit - zyra for example, galio for example, mordekaiser for example.

the problem is that what normally happens is those champions enter with a kit the community isnt familiar with or prepared to deal with due to the uniqueness - which results in early bird nerfs and fanboyism strife.

karthus's kit is fine - the itemization granted is not. what are there like 30 spell shields now?

Now when taking that all into consideration, what about Corki then?

He has been constantly nerfed since his release and he is pretty nonviable for most of a game's duration, but then became a champion who was ACTUALLY useful to the team, for a time. Before his recent nerfs, he actually had a good early game. It wasn't complete garbage like it is now with the huge mana costs and the fact that he falls off in the late game.

Now, like you said, how people aren't familiar with their kits. All people really need to do is build magic resist since 75% of his damage IS indeed magic damage. But most people don't know that, so riot does what's best for a majority of their game's players, and nerfs the champion.

Yes they did this to several champions, but why make a champion viable and then just remove their capabilities patch after patch after patch? There's a point of having a wide selection of champions. To move onto a different one if you dislike playing a certain champion as a main. All champions should be viable, not that they "can" be viable.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

i dont know much about corki to be honest. i'd say that his nerfing/buffing are more related to other champions and items and not really his own kit being adjusted. either way kogmaw azir teemo and corki all play a role that is considered unwelcome in league - a mage marksman. their kits are unsupported by most items and their existence is mocked by the idea that marksmen all do physical damage.

since no one is using them i guess riot doesnt feel the need to adjust them for the 3% of players that play them.

Violet Fields1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g6BReklH,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T08:29:32.491+0000)

i dont know much about corki to be honest. i'd say that his nerfing/buffing are more related to other champions and items and not really his own kit being adjusted. either way kogmaw azir teemo and corki all play a role that is considered unwelcome in league - a mage marksman. their kits are unsupported by most items and their existence is mocked by the idea that marksmen all do physical damage.

since no one is using them i guess riot doesnt feel the need to adjust them for the 3% of players that play them.

Well, you got me there.

But I actually do play Azir as a Marksman. An actual Marksman, in the bot lane. Azir can be played as safely or as aggressively as he pleases. He's a late game champion that's very capable of getting a Penta Kill with the right plays. I've done it many times. You're not SUPPOSE to deal damage in the early game because his primary objective is just to farm until he's capable of doing so. People don't understand champions that they think are "trash" tier when they aren't playing him correctly. It's like Lee Sin where his late game is super dependent on how you play him, except, with Azir, you do that ALL game.

Corki is of beyond exception to this since his late game refuses him to do any of that. He just rushes in with his passive, lands as many auto attacks as he can, and if he doesn't kill anyone, he's dead. It's as simple as that.

To be honest, I don't build full AP on Azir like most people. I basically go just straight on full attack speed. I build RoA, Two Nashor's Teeth, Void Staff, Rabadon's, and Berserker's Greaves. This way, before anyone can make any plays I can just outright kill them depending on how I set up the kill. You may find me hard to believe but take a fed Master Yi, and make him ranged. This is how powerful Azir can be, if not, better.

And give me a break, Teemo is not used by 3% of the player base. In fact, he's the 12th most played champion in the game. (I know that's not what you meant.)

The point is, there are champions that people THINK are broken which indeed they aren't: Renekton, Xin Zhao, Draven, Yasuo, etc. And there are some that are just overly balanced at the start of a game that they're more reliant on making decisions on their plays to prepare for the late game rather than snowballing: Jax, Singed, Fiora, Vayne, etc.

However,

I really do appreciate your time, telling me your points as to WHY these champions get nerfed. It made it so I was more aware of what Riot is doing to the overall game not to just individual champions.

PS: I don't want to start a debate or anything, but when you said Kog'maw, Teemo, Azir, and Corki defy the Markman roll in a way which is unwelcome to League because they're AP. There's also Urgot, which is AD. Yes, I know, he used to have a ridiculous early game but seriously? He's just as capable as being twice as annoying as Teemo because he's required to build half tank, half sustained damage and being just as unlikable as you're telling me.

Nevertheless, he's potentially getting reworked, and I'm happy about that.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

i mean as a basic player looking to climb in league would you play :

a. a champion that is barely understood by the community

b. a champion who has limited item potential

c. a champion who is weak at the beginning of the game

d. a champion that relies on the opponents mistakes

e. a champion that is hybrid against a champion that is focused

f. a champion that relies on all of their kit for a kill

g. a champion with a low movement speed

h. a champion with low defensive stats

i. a champion with cooldown reduction reliance

j. a champion with attack speed reliance

k. a champion with spell vamp reliance

l. a champion with tenacity reliance

m. a champion with low base damage

n. can only utilize their keystone partially

o. has trouble committing to a summoner spell

p. requires flashy execution or multiple key presses for a single interactoin

or the opposite

in most cases players would rather play champions that are the opposite of all of those points to the letter. there are some exceptions in pro-play when a professional has done the research to find that a champion has a significant advantage over their opponent, but even then they usually wont try to utilize that advantage unless there are no other options.

you have to adjust each point slightly for all 6 class types and it helps to know which champions were originally part of the original "jungler" category during season 1.

MrHaZeYo2 votes

You, don't think Renekton's passive is effective?

His passive allows for him to be a lane bully.

His passive generates fury, then with that fury he can empower his abilities.

Violet Fields1 votes

{quoted}

You, don't think Renekton's passive is effective?

His passive allows for him to be a lane bully.

His passive generates fury, then with that fury he can empower his abilities.

His RESOURCE is fury, his passive is generate fury when below 50% health.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

INNATE: Renekton generates 5 Fury each time he lands a basic attack on a non-structure, losing 4 Fury per second if he hasn't dealt or taken damage in the last 12 seconds. When at/above 50 Fury, Renekton's next basic ability consumes 50 Fury to enhance its effects (does not generate Fury) REIGN OF ANGER: Renekton gains 50% more Fury from all sources while below 50% maximum health.

That is his passive

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