The damn thing already has an atrocious 25 second cooldown, it working on minions completely removes the point of his passive when he can barely get in range to an enemy champion if they just run away from you.
ΦmalphintoΦ18 votesi believe the same my dude.
Baron Barian16 votesI like the new rework, but there are ways to improve him, with my one concern being that they overbuff him. I'm still pissed by the overall Nerf to Ornn since his launch.
What if to compensate, it adds an extra 5 second to the cooldown. The cd can be reduced anyway, but it would still make available exclusively to champions in lane. Heck, maybe hitting large neutral minions with the Darken blade Edge could also reduce the cooldown so it wouldn't hurt him as a jungler.
I just want him to get the right kind of buffs, because again, I like him enough that I don't want him to get the Ornn treatment.
CapnMorganFr3man3 votesThe things about Ornn is his buffs were undeserved it's true, but that's partially because of how solid his kit is and how well all his abilities tie together for a combo. Aatrox's kit on the other hand is so stupidly juxtaposed I'm still scratching my head how it got out of pbe. You have a passive that encourages autos, qs that want you to stay a physical distance from the enemy (not to mention landing them is completely reliant on another ability,) anyone with boots can just walk out of the w, and dying in your ultimate still means you die anyway despite the revive unless it's a late game teamfight.
RocketRelm1 votesTo be fair, a kit that is at odds with itself allows for more power to be put "into" that kit. As a Morgana Main for several seasons, a lot of why she was allowed to do insane stuff was because her kit was juxtposd between "keep away" and "run into melee". What I'd buff this ability with, honestly, is something like "if the target dies while affected by this debuff, this passive comes back off Cd.
Now last hitting with it does't waste it.
Nevrankroaton8 votesThis 'atrocious' 25 sec cooldown can be reduced by 20 sec using perfectly his kit (22 if you use your ultimate), which mean you could very well use twi your passive in a fight and it is huge.
I don't see how it get so hard to also work on the timer of you passive, when I see I am at 3 sec, I just E toward my opponent as he CS or is near and get the passive proc. And if he want to fight, I start the dance.
Idk, as I said, play urgot or poppy in lane to get how it work.
CapnMorganFr3man4 votesThe two champions you list are examples of why aatroxs passive is so hilariously bad since it procs on minions.
Poppys passive has cooldown half as short and it becomes 1/5th shorter at lv 16, it makes her attack ranged which can help farm safer, plus you get the shield instantly from killing a creep, so it's all around just as beneficial to use it on creeps as it is to use it on champs usually.
As for Urgot, his leg CD is long but it gets incredibly shorter as you level up. You can also choose not to use your other legs on creeps and save them for fighting champs. Plus all the damage from your passive is aoe so you can use it to hard shove minion waves if you want. And on top of that (but this is something only Urgot mains do really,) your passive can be a huge help to farming since you can clear two or three minions with one auto, which means alot for a champion with such a slow attack speed.
So both the champions you list get actual benefits from using their passives on minions in the laning phase, and when it gets to late game their cooldowns become so short it doesn't matter. Aatrox on the other hand has a flat 25 second cooldown, doesn't get shit from burning his passive on minions, and has to throw his entire kit on someone to get it back up.
Doozku2 votesA closer example to aatrox's passive is Kled W, but it's awkward because Kled's W is on a shorter cd and is way more important than Aatrox passive which means that you actually play around it more.
CapnMorganFr3man2 votesSee that's the thing; Kleds W is a solid addition to his kit but the way it works doesn't make it feel like garbage when you use it on anything besides champions. I can use it to fast clear waves with tiamat, use it to kill minions to remount faster, use it on turrets for more faster damage/remount, or I can use the first two or three autos on minions then go in on a champ with the fourth hit for a quick solid trade. There are very solid advantages to proccing his w on minions, but Aatrox receives virtually nothing for proccing it on minions since it's so built around use against champions.
Z3Sleeper1 votesEasier last hit from longer range on a 25s cooldown totally worth. /s
Nevrankroaton1 votesI copy paste what I said in an other comment (TL;DR, you compare apple to orange):
Their kit are extremely different, I can't compare Urgot to Aatrox in this sense because their whole kit have different function/gameplay.
What I mean is that I play aatrox, played him on PBE and a bit on live, as someone who main Urgot and who also played poppy quite a bit top, your complain doesn't make sense. You need to work around your window of power, Aatrox passive is massive and it is YOUR JOB to find proper way to use this very strong dmg output who have an improved grievous wound.
You say "Aatrox get nothing" but aatrox main dmg input is in his Q for example. Urgot work differently because his whole kit is balanced around his passive which is his damage input and what make him a mid game monster. Poppy have this passive to get stronger laning phase and trade, while her kit is a mix of... warden/bruiser work.
Aatrox passive isn't what make his laning phase, it is a trading tool that you use during your trade. you get nothing on killing a minion because the reward is freaking HUGE landing his passive, it is a BIG chunk of damage and healing reduction coming with his Q damage.
What you guys ask is that the dude permanently get a free trade every 25 sec XD A trade that FUCK UP SHIELD AND HEAL XD So you can't even like think "I play Riven, I come take this CS and immediatly E to tank his passive" because his passive HURT and have a natural property to allow him to win sade trade with this. It is call "window of power", it isn't that hard.
CapnMorganFr3man1 votesWe're not complaining about learning to work around a champs damage windows. We're saying the time we have wait for that damage window is ridiculously long and stays that way throughout the game, and when you top it off with the fact that trying to farm can force you to wait another 24 seconds to get value from it is just stupid. Not to mention it doesn't even interact with your kit well at all since youre trying to keep champs at arms length to land qs. Even if you proc it and throw your entire kit after doing it theres still 12 seconds before the stupid thing comes back up, so quite frankly it might have one of the worst synergies with a champions kit than any other champion designed to date; which again makes you wonder how the hell did this champion make it past pbe?
Z3Sleeper1 votesNevrankroaton1 votesYeah, to get how to play with this kind of passive in lane. It is more of a sugestion than anything but whatever.
I don't know why you try to do the smartass road on this, the two quote you took don't even show that what I said is illogic. I talked about urgot and aatrox not being comparable in their whole kit purpose, what I said about playing urgot and poppy is about learning to play with a champ that have a passive that 'waste' on minion to learn to be more aware of it.
Idk, it is like how I make new player learn to be use to minion blocking their skillshot by learning morgana first so they get better reflexes.
Auz the Ripper5 votesThe difference between urgot/poppy and Aatrox is that they can still get a fair amount of benefit from using their passive on a minion in addition to CS Urgot can aim it so that the enemy laner takes harass and/or clear the wave Poppy instantly gets her Shield if she is CSing proper Aatrox gets nothing
Ryrynounet4 votesBU-bu-butt, you get a 10hp regen if you have your E /s
Nevrankroaton1 votesTheir kit are extremely different, I can't compare Urgot to Aatrox in this sense because their whole kit have different function/gameplay.
What I mean is that I play aatrox, played him on PBE and a bit on live, as someone who main Urgot and who also played poppy quite a bit top, your complain doesn't make sense. You need to work around your window of power, Aatrox passive is massive and it is YOUR JOB to find proper way to use this very strong dmg output who have an improved grievous wound.
You say "Aatrox get nothing" but aatrox main dmg input is in his Q for example. Urgot work differently because his whole kit is balanced around his passive which is his damage input and what make him a mid game monster. Poppy have this passive to get stronger laning phase and trade, while her kit is a mix of... warden/bruiser work.
Aatrox passive isn't what make his laning phase, it is a trading tool that you use during your trade. you get nothing on killing a minion because the reward is freaking HUGE landing his passive, it is a BIG chunk of damage and healing reduction coming with his Q damage.
Z3Sleeper2 votesPoppy gets shield. Urgot can activate his 6 times, it's AoE and late game it's on an extremely short cooldown. Not a good comparison.
Also:
40 - 100 (based on level)% AD (+ 2 / 3 / 4 / 6 / 8% of target's maximum health) physical damage 6 applications, -10% damage per hit beyond the first 30 - 2.5 second cooldown
vs
8% - 16% (based on level) of the target's maximum health bonus physical damage 25 second cooldown, reduced by 2 seconds per ability cast and 1 second per blade hit per champion
Urgot is the clear winner here by a large margin.
Additionally, with Aatrox you can actually get a maximum of 44s reduced cd on passive from 2s from WR, 2s from both E casts, 2s per Q cast and 2s per Q blade hit on all 5 champs (10 x 3 = 30).
Very unrealistic but possible.
Against a single target it's 20s. 4s from WR, 6s from 3Qs, 4s from 2Es, and 6s from blade hits. This means you'd have to stay alive for another 5 seconds and stay in melee range of the enemy to get the 2nd passive hit after landing every Q blade hit and using all your spells. Unrealistic.
Nevrankroaton1 votesIt isn't... comparable...
Like I just told you in my previous message...
Urgot passive is the whole core of his kit, his spell are made to set-up his passive which is his main damage input and like the core of his identity. Aatrox play around his Q, having innate sustain, it is totally normal that Urgot passive fluctuate differently than him.
It is like saying "Why does riven get a shield and not aatrox, they obviously have a three part Q", it is different purpose, you don't really make sense.
Z3Sleeper1 votesIt isn't... comparable...
you don't really make sense.
Not a good comparison.
That's literally what I said. Use common sense and realize that I myself was not stating the comparison but rather replying to a terrible comparison that you didn't make.
However, to assess the issue. Even in practice both Poppy's and Urgot's passives are much more user friendly than Aatrox's abysmal passive. They both have rewards for using them on minions and don't force you to have to sit on them, missing CS while waiting until using it on the enemy is an option.
Warlord Rhinark5 votesMake it so it only works on Large and Epic monsters and you have my support.
Bouncemaster Zac3 votesAatrox should be getting nerfed right now, not buffed.
Davaken4 votes43% wr top 42% wr jungle. While I don't think Riot should overbuff him, he is definitely not deserving a nerf right now.
lil koda2 voteshes a zac player, they dont know much
GrReaper961 votesCheck out his daily win rate
Acheron163 votesMmake it reducible by autoattacking.
Supports alternate builds and makes it so Aatrox has a reason to stick in a fight once he wastes Q.
SugeMinPikk2 votesI have a better idea: Killing a unit with the passive resets the cooldown (or halves it, or reduces it to 10, or something of the sort). Or maybe killing a unit reduces the passive's cooldown by, say, 5 seconds. Or perhaps auto attacks reduce the cooldown by 1 second.
Z3Sleeper2 votesI have a bettererer idea. Remove the CD reduction shenanigans and just make it a lower static cooldown that goes down with level like Urgot's.
The CD reduction effect just doesn't make sense with Aatrox's kit.
PopcornBunni2 votesIt's fine that it works on Minions. It gives him strong last hitting potential. It should go on a drastically reduced cooldown when used on them though.
The problem design wise is how similar it is to Galio's passive, reducing the cooldown by hitting with spells (specifically, casting them, and hitting with the sweetspot on Q.)
While it still wouldn't add much to synergy with his kit, it feels like the cooldown should be reduced by hitting enemy champions with anything in his kit at all. Autos, sourspots, W. Then add bonus reduction from the sweetspot, critical strikes, and W's second hit. Right now his passive feels inconsequential to his character, and anything to make it feel more meaningful would be welcome.
PaffWasTaken2 votesI'd prefer if they gave him an ACTUAL way to lower this insane cooldown outside of having to cast his other abilities (which are even worse in terms of cooldown sometimes) or landing his garbage of a Q. Something like giving him increased range/attack speed on the "marked" target for 5 seconds with each hit refunding some time. I dunno, his whole kits needs so much more than numbers and QoL changes
Arcane Blue Boi1 votesand make his Q not go into cooldown upon revive. pls.
The Space Cowboy1 votesYa it’s needed for jungle and in lane for trading. Plus the cd should match a rune like grasp.
Mokuto Bunshi1 votes
But, but, my whole W does that...
Doctor Jarvis1 votesYour W is reduced by CDR
Mokuto Bunshi1 votesTrue but its a whole ability and my passive (remounting) isn't :P
FCJAAAAGOOOO1 votesbruh I just got slammed by his 500 range Q and dove with aftershock and he 1v5'd my team don't give the 8 foot demon buffs
jocomotion1 votesHe should also get to move slowly during his Q, his Ult should last a while after the white bar fills up if he’s still in champion combat, his Q shouldn’t be canceled if he’s about to go into his revival fetal position
BlackEyesBlue1 votesI felt It should reset if he last hits a monster/minion with it, And when he gets a kill or assist.
Now it rewards last hit skills, and could be used as a zoning tool in lane.
LordGeovanni1 votesid rater they change to mutilate cooldown to be 20-8 seconds and the duration to be 2 (- 1.5) seconds and nerf the % damage to 3% with 1% per 60 ad.
JadeKnightblazer1 votesI wish his passive would work on Towers.... His tower killing ability is quite lackluster, just like before rework.
