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Just give Yasuo the Azir treatment, he doesn't need any buffs

Violet Fields··45 votes·2,758 views

This is a bit of a mess so I'll highlight the parts you would want to see:

Rant:

Honestly, I'm sick of knowing exactly how to lane against him, he goes 0/6 in lane, and because he knows not to feed the same person he goes to other lanes where the same thing happens every single damn game. When I can't kill him anymore because he's dashing all over the place since his Phantom Dancer has movement speed attached to it, trying to kill other people while avoiding death from the person who's the one one who can kill him and because he has Bloodthirster, it's safe to say his 20% lifesteal can basically be interpreted as 40% lifesteal since he has that damn passive. Last game, when he was backing in a bush, I teleported to a ward behind him and when I was about to use my ultimate he, for some reason, was able to ult somebody AT HIS MAX RANGE. I really don't need to explain every annoying part of his kit but I will say this, every game I'm against a Yasuo no matter how terrible they are, once they reach his two-item spike, he doesn't die. Because he's basically a more versatile Master Yi, he can fit a Blood Thirster, a red buff, if that wasn't enough he can also fit a QSS in there, and Mercury Treads to reduce cc, in his items. He shouldn't be able to have 9 different choices when 3 people from several different directions come to kill him. I just wish this champion would have never been made. I'd rather have Lee Sin be meta for 7 more seasons.

The Point:

If you didn't get my point and you're thinking "just shut his early game down, or get better", ** I DID, HE DIED 4 TIMES! You don't understand what I'm getting at,**

Yasuo is in the same boat now as what Azir once was. He's only played by people who've mastered him to his fullest potential and when he's played perfectly, there's no counterplay, which has been said by COUNTLESS people more times than anyone has said this about Azir, this is why I'm so glad Irelia is getting reworked. Buffing him just puts him right back to what he was in season 6, impossible to kill when mastered AND be able to play brainlessly. He doesn't need to be put in the spotlight any longer, it's time to rework him.

What needs to be done is he should only be able to dash a certain amount of times in a given time interval, and that he would hold like 2-6 dashes (based on rank) in a 10 second cooldown window, similar to how Corki can hold 7 missiles at a time, Yasuo should hold a certain amount of dashes rather than infinite, and yes this would most likely mean taking away the 10 cooldown dash on the same unit, or at least reducing it. This would give Yasuo mains time to think if dashing nonsense is really a good idea. If he was in the same situation of being chased by 3 people he would actually have to THINK if using his dashes on two people are really a good idea. It's like how Azir had to COUNT his mana on his Q E and R to engage on a Malzahar with 300 health at level 6.

61 Comments

Gregor Gysi36 votes

Yasuo is in the same boat now as what Azir once was

NO he is NOT. Azir was 100% P/B, Yasuo is not picked competitively.

Z3Sleeper23 votes

Plus I still see Azirs make plays that baffle me every time I see them.

Meanwhile Yasuo may pull some clutch stuff here or there but it's never anything as massively mind-blowing as what Azir does.

Azir has way more room for crazy plays which is why his kit has reduced effectiveness to compensate for how ridiculously effective he can be.

Compared to Azir, Yasuo may as well be a linear champion.

Disembark16 votes

Also Azir was oppressive as fuck. You either had to All in him or get poked from 800 range and zoned off CS for even trying to get in XP range. And if you finally decide to all-in him get ready to be cockblocked by his oppressive as fuck wall.

Gets ganked? Pretty much free escape on E (never used to use it in his trading patterns, would always be up).

Gets ganked for? Shurima shuffle is prob one of the best gank set ups in the game.

Then he scaled into a late game monster where he’d chunk you for 80% health from 800+ range.

If you think Yasuo is even close to Azir levels of broken then you 1) are stupid or 2) don’t have eyeballs

AmazoX29 votes

Dude, hakuna your tata's, Yasuo isn't as strong as you're exaggerating him to be.

''Thread: Yasuo needs to be given the Azir treatment'' ''Description: Complete rant against Yasuo and garbage tier comparison between Yasuo & Azir''

Don't talk about a champion you can't even play, I'd like to see you play Yasuo in Diamond/Master/Challenger. Easier said than done & even easier to exaggerate a champion's strength.

Z3Sleeper16 votes

Honestly hats off to people who pull it off. Making plays and carrying with Yasuo typically means forgoing his defensive options for much more aggressive and game-changing plays. That stuff takes real skill.

While I definitely hate Yasuo because of his seemingly mindless defensive options I definitely respect those who make full use of his crazier, skill-intensive aggressive options.

AquariusGine7 votes

{quoted}

Dude, hakuna your tata's, Yasuo isn't as strong as you're exaggerating him to be.

''Thread: Yasuo needs to be given the Azir treatment'' ''Description: Complete rant against Yasuo and garbage tier comparison between Yasuo & Azir''

Don't talk about a champion you can't even play, I'd like to see you play Yasuo in Diamond/Master/Challenger. Easier said than done & even easier to exaggerate a champion's strength.

Yasuo isn't as strong as most people make him out to be, but you can't deny he is the most frustrating champion to play against. Ever.

Against a good Yasuo, it's one of the most helpless feelings in this game.

MorganFreemanBot3 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo isn't as strong as most people make him out to be, but you can't deny he is the most frustrating champion to play against. Ever.

Against a good Yasuo, it's one of the most helpless feelings in this game.

Yasuo can absolutely be frustrating to play against, but so can literally any champ when laned by someone who knows the MU.

So far as most frustrating? Absolutely not. That title is reserved for the likes of Heimer, Azir, Caitlyn, and Quinn. Champions who, when you're playing the wrong champ into them (basically immobile melee / juggernauts), leave you with absolutely zero agency.

Yasuo is annoying, but he encourages back and forth and doesn't remove one player from the lane out the gate.

An Enemy Sutando6 votes

Actually, you can deny that. Stuff like that is subjective. I for one, hate playing against ultra--safe long range mages with tonnes of waveclear for days at least a hundred times more.

Leetri4 votes

I'd take a Yasuo any day over an Anivia, and I play Viktor.

Yaśuo Main11 votes

his fullest potential and when he's played perfectly, there's no counterplay, which has been said by COUNTLESS people more times than anyone has said this about Azir

Well actually he counters his own counterplay which sounds like he removes his own counterplay but he actually just makes it much less effective, but I'll give you that. Also I'm not sure how much "countless people is". I haven't seen more than 3 people saying that, atleast in the same post. Also, people talk about Azir being a generalist not that he is unable to be countered.

What needs to be done is he should only be able to dash a certain amount of times in a given time interval

so, easier to gank. that's fine

and that he would hold like 2-6 dashes (based on rank)

they will def have to see how that plays out in PBE, but I guess that's fine too

Yasuo should hold a certain amount of dashes rather than infinite

if Yasuo's was infinite then Fiora's would be infinite. Everything that has a dash has an infinite supply, you are actually just talking about CD.

This would give Yasuo mains time to think if dashing nonsense is really a good idea

We don't dash nonsense lol, although I see why it seems that way. just remove the "mains" part because we barely do that AT ALL.

If he was in the same situation of being chased by 3 people he would actually have to THINK if using his dashes on two people are really a good idea

Well it's not a good idea, ever. not unless ur fed to the point where you can 1v3

Buffing him just puts him right back to what he was in season 6, impossible to kill when mastered AND be able to play brainlessly

That wasn't ever actually a thing, his winrate would be 60% or above in season 6 and it wasn't. It's just his playrate that blew up.

He doesn't need to be put in the spotlight any longer, it's time to rework him.

If he isn't at a 50% winrate or above, then he isn't in the spotlight. not even close. Also, there's no real reason to rework him. His kit is still modern compared to most now champions and being bad to play against doesn't warrant a rework entirely. I think you mean it warrants a GU, and that is still debatable but more acceptable.

it's safe to say his 20% lifesteal can basically be interpreted as 40% lifesteal since he has that damn passive

its a percentage, he doesn't change how much lifesteal he receives. it comes from damage, and if he does a lot of damage, it's a lot of lifesteal. nothing unique

for some reason, was able to ult somebody AT HIS MAX RANGE.

wait, so ur saying he ulted someone at the maximum of his range. whats so anomalous?

every game I'm against a Yasuo no matter how terrible they are, once they reach his two-item spike, he doesn't die

his 2 item spike is PD and IE. neither of them are defensive, both of them don't make yasuo be able to survive from killing enemies first, those first 2 items cost 6000 gold total as well.

Because he's basically a more versatile Master Yi, he can fit a Blood Thirster, a red buff, if that wasn't enough he can also fit a QSS in there, and Mercury Treads to reduce cc

  1. Why would he buy mercury treads, I'm pretty sure almost no one does in his class. A red buff isn't something he can always have (ironically, Yi would have it more) he is also generally slower than Yi (Yi can use Q and R to gain distance while Yasuo can only use E, a short range dash that is restricted to only dashing to enemies).

  2. He's not as good as Master Yi in terms of damage early game and late game (atleast with my experience as a mastery 6 Yi with 146k points)

  3. He doesn't buy blood thirster as often anymore

He shouldn't be able to have 9 different choices when 3 people from several different directions come to kill him. I just wish this champion would have never been made. I'd rather have Lee Sin be meta for 7 more seasons

uh

He shouldn't be able to have 9 different choices when 3 people from several different directions come to kill him

Wuzzat mean? I don't understand, every champion has more than just 9 choices to make in that situation. What's giving Yasuo more choices and why are those same choices good for some odd reason?

I just wish this champion would have never been made

I know this is a rant but if you were gonna bother on analyzing his gameplay and balance, you don't ever bring bias into it. Also, this sentence doesn't need to exist.

I'd rather have Lee Sin be meta for 7 more seasons

Lol what the fuck. I don't need to explain this one, but I'll say that I doubt you actually want that. Why would you not have another champion that isn't as bad as Lee Sin be meta for 7 more seasons.

Also, why would we make Yasuo a generalist of all things?

AlexJFrost6661 votes

i love this post so much

Divewing1 votes

Great post, holy shit.

Would like to pick your brain about something else then, since Yasuo was the reason I started the game, I dropped him because I just cannot for the life of me get behind the crit build that he needs to do.

Do you think there's a world where fighter yas could exist (TForce and Bork/Hydra -> tank) a la Camille style (obviously this implies at the least minor changes to his kit and base stats)?

DunkinNoobs1 votes

{quoted}

Do you think there's a world where fighter yas could exist (TForce and Bork/Hydra -> tank) a la Camille style (obviously this implies at the least minor changes to his kit and base stats)?

Fighter/Bruiser Yas is exactly what Riot is trying to avoid. It's why he gets nerfed whenever his bruiser builds start becoming too strong. Yasuo is given as much mobility he is on the condition that he will not be tanky like a fighter, and if his build ever starts emulating Jax, he'll get nerfed again.

Divewing1 votes

Thought as much

TengenToppaGnar2 votes

Sooo, in other words, we can nerf him even more

Mr Burns: Eeexcellent~

greekvandaL8 votes

Crying about a squishy melee adc ( Oh sorry based on riots words of wisdom and high IQ'ness a SLAYER) beeing strong in a meta where support Alistar with aftershock can do 50% of a squishy champs health. kek mate.

DunkinNoobs6 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo is in the same boat now as what Azir once was. He's only played by people who've mastered him to his fullest potential and when he's played perfectly, there's no counterplay,

Your entire thesis is based on this statement being true. The problem is that it isn't true. If it were, you'd see a lot more Yasuo players in Challenger and you'd see a lot more Yasuo in pro play. In reality, Yasuo has far more in common with Master Yi than he does with Azir. A Master Yi played by a good player against unprepared players looks unstoppable, but that doesn't mean Master Yi isn't a bad champion. Yasuo isn't quite as feast or famine as Yi in that regard, but as a fellow squishy melee DPS champ, the principle remains the same.

Troll for Trump4 votes

This doesn't just apply to Yasuo, but basically every champ that has a higher power ceiling justified by high skill level. Stuff like Azir Kalista Yasuo Vayne Fiora Riven Katarina Leblanc Ryze

Katastrophic18 votes

{quoted}

This doesn't just apply to Yasuo, but basically every champ that has a higher power ceiling justified by high skill level. Stuff like Azir Kalista Yasuo Vayne Fiora Riven Katarina Leblanc Ryze

Katarina doesn't have infinite E by just dashing to people. You have to use your brain to ALWAYS have your E available.

Troll for Trump1 votes

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying her kit is stronger because she's harder.

Obviously none of these champs are exactly the same.

But it's just a bunch of champs who can get stronger kits than others because they're harder.

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

{quoted}

Katarina doesn't have infinite E by just dashing to people. You have to use your brain to ALWAYS have your E available.

Her scaling is absurd though. I'd rather give her something like Malzahar's passive and cut her scaling by a good amount than leave her where she is.

But as for Yasuo, yes, he needs to be changed. You can abuse Support Yasuo and make bot lane hell for the opponents if you know what you're doing.

Divewing2 votes

lmfao, I'm telling right now, you do NOT want Malz's passive on Katarina

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

{quoted}

lmfao, I'm telling right now, you do NOT want Malz's passive on Katarina

On current kat? Hell no. On a kat with non-astronomical scalings? Perfectly fine.

Right now the only excuse for her high scalings it that CC shuts her DOWN. You take that away, and you can reel in her absurdly high scaling.

Seriously, have you ever looked at the tooltips for her skills? Just build like, 3 AP items and read your tooltips. She's got higher AP% scaling than anyone else I've ever played, and you find yourself facing her in a game when she's duoed with the support in botlane, who happens to play Morgana? Good luck interrupting those entire healthbar ults.

I seriously don't know why item 3116 + item 3151 isn't staple on Katarina. I never see anyone build them. Zhonyas does you no good, it stops your own ult. Most Kat players are just bad, but that's assassin mains in general.

[sg-miss-fortune]

Divewing2 votes

This all sounds rather anecdotal...

Kat doesn't build Rylais for 2 reasons;

  1. it's an item designed for DpS mages
  2. it sucks in general right now anyway

Honestly the fact that your biggest issue with her is her ult suggests to me you don't actually understand her kit at all...

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

{quoted}

This all sounds rather anecdotal...

Kat doesn't build Rylais for 2 reasons;

  1. it's an item designed for DpS mages
  2. it sucks in general right now anyway

Honestly the fact that your biggest issue with her is her ult suggests to me you don't actually understand her kit at all...

My problem isn't her ult, it's all of her ratios. But she's not in a bad place right now, there are far more pressing matters to attend to in the horrific land of League's game balance. I'd still love to take a look at her kit and numbers down the road, but until she's able to more easily abuse that insane scaling due to changes they will inevitably make to items or runes at some point without considering her kit, she's going to be able to fly under the radar.

As for Rylais+Liandrys, it's not about utilizing Rylais for CC, or for HP, or any of that matter, it's for applying CC, and proccing the double damage for Liandrys on every spell. Dealing %HP damage to wipe champions off the map regardless of tankiness.

It's like Sunfire+FrozenHeart+Liandrys on an AP tank like Amumu Leona Alistar. I'm sure you won't understand the combo or have realized how one of them was bursting you down.

Divewing1 votes

Or she could just build literally anything else and get more damage than Rylais...

Like I said, Rylais and Liandry's are DpS items.

The only reason standard mages build/have built these, is because they were either overtuned (in the case of Rylais) or it had MPen (Liandry's).

Literally anyone could build Rylais and Liandry's for the synergy, but that doesn't make it good.

Fact is most of Kat's scaling comes off her Ult, which is balance because she CCs herself, and it's dealt over 2.5 seconds. It's not like that shit is instant and global, and while it seems OP on paper, in practice, it's not something Kat players like to rely on.

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

{quoted}

Or she could just build literally anything else and get more damage than Rylais...

Like I said, Rylais and Liandry's are DpS items.

The only reason standard mages build/have built these, is because they were either overtuned (in the case of Rylais) or it had MPen (Liandry's).

Literally anyone could build Rylais and Liandry's for the synergy, but that doesn't make it good.

Fact is most of Kat's scaling comes off her Ult, which is balance because she CCs herself, and it's dealt over 2.5 seconds. It's not like that shit is instant and global, and while it seems OP on paper, in practice, it's not something Kat players like to rely on.

Don't write off the 100% AP scaling on her passive. Building a banshees on her can also reduce her chance of being CCed in her ultimate, and if you're planning on being able to negate the CC you can aim for Rylais+Liandrys rather than wasting a slot on Zhonyas, which is no longer a big ticket AP item, you'd probably be able to deal more damage with item 3116 + item 3151 than any other two items you could throw on her.

The stuff has mad shred, and if you're not going to use it, that's fine, you can believe there are better options. But if you're not going to be CCed, you want to have your ult last as long as possible to deal as much damage as possible, with %hp damage, grievous wounds, and slowing them to keep them in your AoE for longer, you'll hit higher DPS than continuing with ye old Zhonyas build.

Sure, your chances of seeing a duo Katarina mid and a Morgana support isn't going to be high, but when it happens, you better hope you have someone who can burst that shield off, and someone else who knows to wait to apply their CC until it's gone.

Otherwise, her scaling will be far too high, and there won't be anything you can do to cancel the insane damage she'll apply on you, short of burning a summoner spell or an item CD.

My point being, I'd rather see her innately get some boon to think about using to make a good play on lower ratios, than see her be left in her current ratios to be abused by rare strategies that will come to fruition in later patches and cause Riot to nerf the wrong part of her kit, Morgana's kit, a new item, a new rune, or a future champion's kit.

Don't want her to Ezreal a future rune, item, or another champion's kit because of an abusive strategy.

Spicy Rice1 votes

{quoted}

Katarina doesn't have infinite E by just dashing to people. You have to use your brain to ALWAYS have your E available.

It's almost as if you are saying yasuo has an infinite dash as well, without recognizing that it is severely limited outside of its optimal environment (a lane with alot of minions)

But that can't be it, you are most definitely smarter and less biased than someone who would claim that

3noobs6 votes

Ryze?

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yes?

3noobs1 votes

I see assasins one shot him...

Troll for Trump1 votes

Assassins oneshot kalista, kata, vayne, LB and azir too

HungryAngry2SPP5 votes

{quoted}

This doesn't just apply to Yasuo, but basically every champ that has a higher power ceiling justified by high skill level. Stuff like Azir Kalista Yasuo Vayne Fiora Riven Katarina Leblanc Ryze

Ryze sucks anyway :/

Troll for Trump4 votes

Ryze is intentionally kept in the dumpster because his kit is too good when optimized. Same with Kali and Azir. HIs ult is also too good for organized play.

Divewing2 votes

Or maybe having several identities that Riot refuses to get rid of could be too much?

<Point and click root intensifies>

Troll for Trump1 votes

He needs the root to counter mobility since he doesn't really have that much reliable repositioning on his own (though people bs their way through by taking ghost/flash and previously took stormraider's. Also Watch+Ult)

It's like a less polar version of why Malz still has his R.

The problem with all point and click cc is that, while it helps deal with mobility, being an immobile champ against it is just a huge feelsbad.

One of Ryze's identities is that of a dps mage, and Riot seems to just generally struggle with those.

They could make his niche more specified, agreed.

Divewing1 votes

I mean, if we count the number of things Riot considers iconic for Ryze we have;

  • machine gun mage
  • point-and-click root
  • bonus mana scaling
  • aoe spell-bouncing

His most recent rework tentatively adds a further 2 to this list;

  • Portal ult
  • Empowered spells (based on E charges)

It's pretty excessive

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah, I'm agreeing.

Zed genius4 votes

it's safe to say his 20% lifesteal can basically be interpreted as 40% lifesteal since he has that damn passive.

that's a lie, get your facts straight. Also I looked up the game mentioned, the enemy yasuo ended with a score of 15/4. If he was actually 0/4 then it's actually just wp from his side. It's almost impossible to make comebacks like that these days with the amount of snowball there is in this game

AlexJFrost6662 votes

this guy is really good at words man

Blakiepug3 votes

I love how this last summer Riot said they would give him a mini-update/rework to make his kit less toxic in order to hush a lot of players who were vocalizing their complaints about Yasuo, but then a few months later very quietly took back their word on one of the red posts on the boards. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there were still some players who thought that Yasuo still has a mini-rework on the way.

Yaśuo Main2 votes

who thought that Yasuo still has a mini-rework on the way

ill say I did

Velasan2 votes

Well, I'm aware this is a rant and most everyone has covered it already...

Just a few things.

  1. No champion should get the "Azir treatment." I used to play Azir when he came out, actually had no problems picking him up. Wasn't hard to understand, he is a zone mage that moves his threat zones. He was too powerful for a while, but he's also been nerfed into the ground harder than almost any other champ I've ever seen and then left in a bad state for a really long time. It was the first time since I started this game that I actively saw them remove parts of a champions kit wholesale. Azir lost his tower bombing passive and cdr to attack speed passive, and a lot of his original soldier range plus multiple nerfs to the wall (and so on). That should NEVER be a good answer to champion balance.

  2. Yasuo can definitely be oppressive and annoying when ahead, and at one point he may have been a little too good to the point he needed nerfs. However, at this point that simply isn't the case anymore. He's shut down by a number of other fighters who can just 1v1 him and he's also countered by more than a few mages who have spells that by pass his wind wall. The trick with all these mechanically intense champions is that they are really easy to screw up on. All that flexibility means you can also do the wrong thing with your abilities. Compared to say Veigar, where it's really hard to screw up (hit enemy with stun, drop all spells on top of them, hopefully they died), if a Yasuo screws up somewhere it's pivotal for the characters survival. You dash on the wrong target you can't dash back through it.

The best advice I can give against Yasuo's/Rivens/Lee sins of the League world is play champions that punish having to jump on people. Lissandra for example can make those champions lives a nightmare. They try to dive you, you're going to heal and they are going to waste ultimates. They dive your team and you freeze them in place. Even if they buy an anti cc item to get rid of it they have to go out of their way to spend gold to counter only you. Playing JG? Then pick up Poppy and use her W for the anti dash.

Chess12 votes

As long as the rest of your team goes even yasuo can be very easily dealt with by just diving him and camping him.

Kinnikuko2 votes

The beginning of this sounds like a personal gripe

Lowvyr2 votes

You're comparing champions that are pretty different. If Yasou's skill ceiling is a 8/10 on the scale, then Azir is like a 14. Azir has a weaker kit because he can do some seriously crazy stuff. Yasuo can't do stuff that's all that crazy, he just looks flashy because he dashes around all over the place.

chipndip12 votes

Plat 5 Yasuo beats a Gold 5 Kennen with a Bronze 4 Vayne on his team.

"Yasuo needs to be nerfed until he's no longer usable until further noticed. I'm not biased."

Violet Fields1 votes

Why does this thread have so many likes when EVERYONE disagrees with me, I'm so damn confused.

Yaśuo Main1 votes

Same reason posts like "PSA to ADCS: go fuck yourself" get likes. Because it's basically a social meta also known as a "circlejerk".

GodlyBane1 votes

Yasuo isnt meta at all, idk why ur complaining, he completly fell off and now they are trying to buff him to make him somewhat playable, out of anything riot has done, this is one of the best company decisions by far

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