No, this is not a "OMG CAITLYN DOESN'T COUNTER VAYNE!!!" thread, this is a friendly nub actually wondering how Caitlyn counters Vayne but doesn't have the mechanical knowledge to know by myself, and would like to be informed pls.
futuresight234 votesVayne has one of the shortest attack ranges for ADCs in the game. Caitlyn's base range is larger than any other champion at level 1. The idea is that Caitlyn between her long range autoattacks and Q will be able to chunk down Vayne and be able to deny her any opportunity to get decent CS.
In any case that is the theory.
12tales2 votesVayne actually has 550 Attack Range, which is on par with most ADCs (Twitch, MF, Ezreal Draven and Corki all share her range, while Graves, Jinx, Lucian, Sivir and Kog'Maw have lower range). What makes Vayne a short range ADC is that her longest range ability is only 550 range, whereas most ADCs have some sort of long range poke tool that lets them trade with Cait's autos.
But yeah, in Cait vs. Vayne, there's basically this 100 width disc that follows Vayne wherever she moves, and as long as Cait stands inside that disc, she wins every trade by default. And should Vayne ever tumble offensively, Cait can just EQ away, which makes it almost impossible for Vayne to get silver bolts procs on her. It's a pretty ugly matchup if (and only if) Cait's positioning is on point.
Lao Fu the Tiger1 votesBasically Caitlyn can just stand really close to the minions and every time Vayne gets close, she pokes Vayne.
Yes, if she stands way back and CS's at max range, there is no counter. But generally a halfway decent Caitlyn will be all up in your face CSing rather than at max range.
Lord Dusteon1 votesVayne has literally no method of interacting with anyone outside her autoattack range (Condemn has the same range). Caitlyn has huge range naturally and a good long range poke with Q, which should mean she can bully Vayne out (since Vayne has to get in range while caitlyn is already in range and can escape if need be).
Hayaishi1 votesBecause Caitlyn can completely avoid trading and just push to tower while poking Vayne, and if Vayne ever tries to engage Caitlyn just E+Qs on her face nullifying her engage.
RexSaur1 votesBecause Caitlyn can completely avoid trading and just push to tower while poking Vayne, and if Vayne ever tries to engage Caitlyn just E+Qs on her face nullifying her engage.
Thats if vayne has no support and jungler.
If a cait is afk pushing she should get ganked 20 times and if vayne gets a single kill and she has a aggressive support she just roflstomps cait after 6.
Its just hard to say any adc beats other in lane because the lane isnt 1v1, but 2v2 (+ jungle/mid presence).
NovemberrRose2 votesBecause Caitlyn can completely avoid trading and just push to tower while poking Vayne, and if Vayne ever tries to engage Caitlyn just E+Qs on her face nullifying her engage.
Thats if vayne has no support and jungler.
If a cait is afk pushing she should get ganked 20 times and if vayne gets a single kill and she has a aggressive support she just roflstomps cait after 6.
Its just hard to say any adc beats other in lane because the lane isnt 1v1, but 2v2 (+ jungle/mid presence).
i like how the conversation now involves other non-factors. clearly, a well-thought out argument that has nothing to do with cait vs vayne
Hayaishi1 votesBecause Caitlyn can completely avoid trading and just push to tower while poking Vayne, and if Vayne ever tries to engage Caitlyn just E+Qs on her face nullifying her engage.
Thats if vayne has no support and jungler.
If a cait is afk pushing she should get ganked 20 times and if vayne gets a single kill and she has a aggressive support she just roflstomps cait after 6.
Its just hard to say any adc beats other in lane because the lane isnt 1v1, but 2v2 (+ jungle/mid presence).
Only against a bad Cait. Cait only has to disengage to win against Vayne, jungle pressure turns around every lane regardless of the match up so that has nothing to do with Vayne.
2v2 with players of equal skill that know how to use their champions Vayne shouldn't have a chance in lane.
RexSaur1 votesBecause Caitlyn can completely avoid trading and just push to tower while poking Vayne, and if Vayne ever tries to engage Caitlyn just E+Qs on her face nullifying her engage.
Thats if vayne has no support and jungler.
If a cait is afk pushing she should get ganked 20 times and if vayne gets a single kill and she has a aggressive support she just roflstomps cait after 6.
Its just hard to say any adc beats other in lane because the lane isnt 1v1, but 2v2 (+ jungle/mid presence).
Only against a bad Cait. Cait only has to disengage to win against Vayne, jungle pressure turns around every lane regardless of the match up so that has nothing to do with Vayne.
2v2 with players of equal skill that know how to use their champions Vayne shouldn't have a chance in lane.
Yes, but im Just talking on a dialy solo q experience.
Lets be honest very hardly all 4 players in the bot lane have the exact same skill level and nobody outside of the lane does anything, so you cant just assume it doesnt exist.
Cait needs to push to win lane and pushing makes her vulnerable to ganks.
By your logic darius is the best top laner in the game because 1v1 he beats about 99% of the melee champs and even some ranged ones that dont outrange his E by a lot.
Cait vs vayne is pretty much : If cait is allowed to push for free then she wins easily, if vayne has all aggressive support and survives well until lvl 6 she can also win lane (or if she has a sustain support not named soraka), it can go both ways so its wrong to say that this lane is a free win for cait cause it isnt.Also cait cant just ''disengage'' from everything, all she has other than her range is a 400 range delayed dash (that can be interrupted) on a !8 SECOND CD that costs 75 mana, i mean honestly compare that to lucian dash.
If you want to know actual ppl that faceroll vayne look at lucian (then again he facerolls every other adc other than draven), mf, pre nerf twitch (hes still ok vs her), corki does really good vs her too.
NovemberrRose1 votesBecause Caitlyn can completely avoid trading and just push to tower while poking Vayne, and if Vayne ever tries to engage Caitlyn just E+Qs on her face nullifying her engage.
Thats if vayne has no support and jungler.
If a cait is afk pushing she should get ganked 20 times and if vayne gets a single kill and she has a aggressive support she just roflstomps cait after 6.
Its just hard to say any adc beats other in lane because the lane isnt 1v1, but 2v2 (+ jungle/mid presence).
Only against a bad Cait. Cait only has to disengage to win against Vayne, jungle pressure turns around every lane regardless of the match up so that has nothing to do with Vayne.
2v2 with players of equal skill that know how to use their champions Vayne shouldn't have a chance in lane.
Yes, but im Just talking on a dialy solo q experience.
Lets be honest very hardly all 4 players in the bot lane have the exact same skill level and nobody outside of the lane does anything, so you cant just assume it doesnt exist.
Cait needs to push to win lane and pushing makes her vulnerable to ganks.
By your logic darius is the best top laner in the game because 1v1 he beats about 99% of the melee champs and even some ranged ones that dont outrange his E by a lot.
Cait vs vayne is pretty much : If cait is allowed to push for free then she wins easily, if vayne has all aggressive support and survives well until lvl 6 she can also win lane (or if she has a sustain support not named soraka), it can go both ways so its wrong to say that this lane is a free win for cait cause it isnt.Also cait cant just ''disengage'' from everything, all she has other than her range is a 400 range delayed dash (that can be interrupted) on a !8 SECOND CD that costs 75 mana, i mean honestly compare that to lucian dash.
If you want to know actual ppl that faceroll vayne look at lucian (then again he facerolls every other adc other than draven), mf, pre nerf twitch (hes still ok vs her), corki does really good vs her too.
darius doesnt beat everyone top lol, wtf? nobody said it was a free win either, where are you coming up with this stuff lol
RexSaur1 votesBecause Caitlyn can completely avoid trading and just push to tower while poking Vayne, and if Vayne ever tries to engage Caitlyn just E+Qs on her face nullifying her engage.
Thats if vayne has no support and jungler.
If a cait is afk pushing she should get ganked 20 times and if vayne gets a single kill and she has a aggressive support she just roflstomps cait after 6.
Its just hard to say any adc beats other in lane because the lane isnt 1v1, but 2v2 (+ jungle/mid presence).
Only against a bad Cait. Cait only has to disengage to win against Vayne, jungle pressure turns around every lane regardless of the match up so that has nothing to do with Vayne.
2v2 with players of equal skill that know how to use their champions Vayne shouldn't have a chance in lane.
Yes, but im Just talking on a dialy solo q experience.
Lets be honest very hardly all 4 players in the bot lane have the exact same skill level and nobody outside of the lane does anything, so you cant just assume it doesnt exist.
Cait needs to push to win lane and pushing makes her vulnerable to ganks.
By your logic darius is the best top laner in the game because 1v1 he beats about 99% of the melee champs and even some ranged ones that dont outrange his E by a lot.
Cait vs vayne is pretty much : If cait is allowed to push for free then she wins easily, if vayne has all aggressive support and survives well until lvl 6 she can also win lane (or if she has a sustain support not named soraka), it can go both ways so its wrong to say that this lane is a free win for cait cause it isnt.Also cait cant just ''disengage'' from everything, all she has other than her range is a 400 range delayed dash (that can be interrupted) on a !8 SECOND CD that costs 75 mana, i mean honestly compare that to lucian dash.
If you want to know actual ppl that faceroll vayne look at lucian (then again he facerolls every other adc other than draven), mf, pre nerf twitch (hes still ok vs her), corki does really good vs her too.
darius doesnt beat everyone top lol, wtf? nobody said it was a free win either, where are you coming up with this stuff lol
You clearly have never played a melee champ (or a low range champ top) vs darius without a jungler pressuring him.
NovemberrRose1 votesplayed plenty of games as a melee lol, dont have much problem tbh
Doogmi1 votesI don't think cait really counters vayne, laning phase is just opressive due to caitlyns range and vaynes low range of influence (550). While laning if vayne tries to all in cait(and she should she does more DMG) with a well placed e cait can avoid it all together or create enough distance to be safe. This becomes less relevant when the towers are gone and team fights occur. With nothing to run to vayne will catch up to a fleeing cait and clean up in most cases.
NoMonku1 votesCaitlyn can counter Vayne because she outranges her. Caitlyn is also really strong early, while Vayne is significantly weaker. You basically use your range advantage in lane and poke her w/ auto's+Q's and zone her out of minions. You then proceed to push down her tower and group and force objectives, be it dragon, towers, or buffs. You need to force it her to make the choice of grouping with her team to fight 5v5 despite being underleveled/farmed or to stay farming and allow her team to fight 4v5. Either way, with how down she is your team should win and be able to win the game before she reaches her power spike of 2-3 items. This is of course the concept. Actually pulling it off is a different issue, as she has great outplay potential and easily takes advantage of player error. Also as Vayne takes a high amount of skill to play, most players who are really good at her are REALLY good, so be careful.
Champion Skin1 votesYes though if Vayne get's ahead Vayne can simply ult and run down Caitlyn (If we only look at those two) though if Vayne should step in a trap Cait can get in free shots (Vayne can attack while snared but Caitlyn have longer range and Vayne can't move while snared)
ceaselessphantom1 votesReally I do not think it is that big a counter. Yes Caitlyn can easily bully Vayne clean out of lane. But bullying Vayne is nothing special and adcs that scale better could do it too. The best one for it I think would be Draven since he has the highest aa damage.
Also it seems like a lot these guides mentioning match ups or counters only seem to really consider laning.
Edit Another point is that Draven is really snowbally so if he gets ahead Vayne will probably not be recovering unless the game drags out really long.
Kowe The Ewok1 votesAuto attacks when Vayne goes for a CS. Use your passive.
