Why are 80% of junglers so braindead?

Katie Killjoy·Jun 19, 2017·8 votes·2,516 views

I don't care about the downvotes I'll get, I already know the boards is full of white knights who think junglers are a gift from God and to insult or question one is a crime worse than murder. I'd love to know why there's so many morons out there who jungle and don't do jack about an easy gank but want to dive the 3/0 . This is why I hate junglers having a strong impact on the game. 90% of the games I play is just "Who has the better jungler?" Spin the wheel kids! Did you get the guy trying to camp his premade friend when there's wards all over?!? DID YOU GET THE GUY WHO POWER FARMS ON LEE SIN?!? WILL YOU BE PART OF THE 4% WHO GETS A GOOD JUNGLER THAN KNOWS YOU CAN SHUT DOWN EARLY GAME CHAMPS BY GANKING THEM EARLY?!?

Nah you'll get what I got. A jungle ignoring the Kayle pushing under her top laner's tower 24/7 with no wards.

BUT REMEMBER. It's your fault if you lose. And Riot is right. It is my fault, for queueing up.

41 Comments

SintamaJun 19, 20174 votes

I had a jungle Riven recently. She had a hard time clearing a single camp without having to back after. The enemy jungler had complete freedom to do whatever it wanted. Never had to worry about counter-ganks, counter-jungles, objective contests. I HAVE to jungle in my games, otherwise there is zero pressure anywhere.

General Esdeath Jun 19, 20171 votes

I remember I got a jungle Riven just because she wanted to use the new skin. Dark times were had.

TormythJun 19, 20173 votes

there is an easy solution to this, play jungle yourself if it is such a pressing issue.

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20173 votes

I have, it's boring as shit. I prefer action in lanes. Played WW for 6 or 7 of my placement games in flex queue when I decided to go for gold on that. Won most of them except the one where I had a guy afk. It's not fucking hard. Oh, their laner is under my tower? Gank. Oh, their jungler died/is top? Dragon. Their jungler is bot? Rift Herald. All my lanes are winning? Power farm, counter jungle, ward up and look for counter ganks. All my lanes losing? Time to kick myself up and gank 1 at a time and help them out.

GreatWhiteNorthJun 19, 20171 votes

If you tried this in bronze, nobody would come to help you dragon or rift herald.

I've tried this.

Starcraft243verJun 19, 20171 votes

The good part is you dont need help to do these as warwick.

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20171 votes

^ once you get a Tiamat or jungle item you can solo dragon and herald at lvl 7-8 with no risk. Aside from his sustain, his Q (hold) puts him BEHIND the herald fast enough to hit the eye for 1K true damage.

GreatWhiteNorthJun 19, 20171 votes

I think I'm going to try ww now...ty

TormythJun 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

^ once you get a Tiamat or jungle item you can solo dragon and herald at lvl 7-8 with no risk. Aside from his sustain, his Q (hold) puts him BEHIND the herald fast enough to hit the eye for 1K true damage.

it's possible to solo it dragon at level 4 as ww with the right planning and setup

Winters DawnJun 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dirge of Unity,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fvkAJBjk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-19T06:48:18.311+0000)

there is an easy solution to this, play jungle yourself if it is such a pressing issue.

This. Seriously if I'm jungling and you want to spam ping me or yell at me because you're getting campped becayse you cant play safe. Or you don't like how much I'm farming the jungle or the fact that I'm gankijg bot and getting dragon but leaving top lane alone for a couple minutes: then YOU play jungle if you know whats best. The jungler cant be everywhere at once. The jungle cant predict 100% of the time where the enemy jungle is going to pop up at. But if you want to complain about all the crappy junglers then go jungle yourself since you seem to know how the jungle works.

ShouldSeeMyHeadJan 15, 20181 votes

idc about this thread being 7 months old imma still reply cuz this argument is literally bullshit

"if you dont like it do it yourself" is a bad argument, you can criticize something even if you dont wanna/cant do it yourself. you wouldnt tell someone who is criticizing the president or another politician to just do it themselves.

that said, i can only talk about eu junglers up to a lvl of mid diamond but boiiii can i tell you they are freakin retarded. the amount of times i see a jungler farm instead of going for an obvious potentially game winning gank or cover is too freakin high. let alone ppl not understanding how lane pressure works in regards of invades or side priority. drives me nuts.

idc if i come across dickish or condescending, most junglers are preeeetty f*ucking dumb and dont understand shit about both the game and their role. they seem to believe jungling is about farming camps and not pressuring/using pressure and playing the map. i am not saying laners know all this stuff junglers get more shit for their mistakes bc not a lot of ppl are constantly keeping an eye on the other lanes (which they should), hence they dont see a laners mistakes as often.

nevertheless eu junglers are literally mentally challenged for the most part

ShouldSeeMyHeadJan 15, 20181 votes

i hope i didnt fuck up the grammar too hard, didnt bother reading lul

TEA Nietzsche Jun 19, 20172 votes

Junglers that you get matched with play in average as well as you play toplane. Now think about that.

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20172 votes

Oh so they get ganked 3 times before 6 and dove once the enemy hits 6 and they're still 4? Or do they sit under tower farming getting poked all game? The fact that I can 2v1 and keep up with a PvE monkey says a lot.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 19, 20171 votes

Changes nothing, your jungler was G3 aswell. So how about you focus on getting better instead of complaining about something that you can't even change?

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20171 votes

Oh I didn't know getting better included winning a counter pick matchup where the enemy is sitting under my tower free farming for 15 minutes poking me out of lane only to be flamed by the very jungler ignoring this for "feeding" while both top laners are 0/0/0 but one has double the cs. Yep, makes sense. Pro advice right there my dude. Hey, I got an idea! Why don't we all hit challenger by just killing the enemy? Easy game, amirite? Or how about every game from now on is a 4v5? Since we're trying to get better here instead of focusing on something we can't change it shouldn't be a problem ;)

TEA Nietzsche Jun 19, 20171 votes

Do you know what you call it when your jungler is always worse than their jungler?

Statistically implausible. There are always games that you cannot win, but you can win most of them so even when you lose a game focus on what you could've done better so that you win the winnable games.

Or alternatively bitch on the boards about your jungler, that works too.

General Esdeath Jun 19, 20171 votes

I don't know man, I play a lot of top too and I feel like junglers just ignore this lane all together, but are quick to flame if the 3-0 Riven/Jayce/Yasuo comes bot and gets a double.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 19, 20171 votes

I mean, if all junglers ignore top shouldn't you just be able to snowball it cuz you are better?

General Esdeath Jun 19, 20171 votes

What? Unless we're playing the same champ, there's no such thing as "better". For example I could play GP into Riven and she'll harass me all early game. If she's over extended and my jungler doesn't gank I'll chill and farm but if they dare flame me for dying to a dive it just annoys me because they actively chose not to help a late game champ vs a cocky early game player.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What? Unless we're playing the same champ, there's no such thing as "better".

Do you really believe that?

General Esdeath Jun 19, 20171 votes

At my elo, yes I do lol. Considering champs have different phases I've got several games where the Panth bullies me early as Riven then I hit 6 and kill him, or the Renekton zones me as Darius until I hit 6 and can true damage chunk him, I've played against Nasus/GP who I bully but once they get enough stacks/items it's not as easy.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 19, 20171 votes

I mean yeah, if you and your opponent are equally skilled the result will probably depend on matchup and jgl influence, that's just how it's intended. But if you were to be better than your opponent you'd just stomp easy matchups and survive the hard ones.

And that is basically my point, if you start to focus on your mistakes and improve on them you will simply start winning matchups that you are not supposed to win and only lose very few games.

General Esdeath Jun 19, 20171 votes

But that's what I mean, in a matchup where one is a late game champ like Nasus you can stomp early with Riven but eventually he catches up and you can't 1v1 him (Around 2-3 items with 200 stacks). But that's not really a mistake it's just the matchup. I feel if your top is a champ that gets a mid game spike or can tp roam well, you should try to help them get a lead so they can roam mid or tp bot. And if it's someone like Trynd/Jax give them a lead so they can splitpush wherever you want the enemy to be so you can dragon, herald, or just get some farm.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But that's what I mean, in a matchup where one is a late game champ like Nasus you can stomp early with Riven but eventually he catches up and you can't 1v1 him (Around 2-3 items with 200 stacks). But that's not really a mistake it's just the matchup.

Sure, that's why you have to snowball the map (which works if you are good enough).

I feel if your top is a champ that gets a mid game spike or can tp roam well, you should try to help them get a lead so they can roam mid or tp bot. And if it's someone like Trynd/Jax give them a lead so they can splitpush wherever you want the enemy to be so you can dragon, herald, or just get some farm.

Absolutely. This is something that junglers have to keep in mind so if you plan to jungle this is great (although you will realize that junglers have to juggle quite a few lanes and objectives).

But again, you are focusing on what other players should be doing. Instead just ask yourself what Viper would do in your situation so that next time when your jungler fucks up and you are in a shitty matchup just think of it like "what could I do in this situation" rather than "what should my jungler have done in this situation".

The first will get you far, the second nowhere. By the way, I don't mean to offend you, this is just genuine advice coming from a coaching perspective.

General Esdeath Jun 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=AI LMAO ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fvkAJBjk,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-19T18:38:04.356+0000)

Sure, that's why you have to snowball the map (which works if you are good enough).

Easier said than done, bot needs to ward the bush so I can come behind them. As Malph it's easier because I can flash ult.

Absolutely. This is something that junglers have to keep in mind so if you plan to jungle this is great (although you will realize that junglers have to juggle quite a few lanes and objectives).

But again, you are focusing on what other players should be doing. Instead just ask yourself what Viper would do in your situation so that next time when your jungler fucks up and you are in a shitty matchup just think of it like "what could I do in this situation" rather than "what should my jungler have done in this situation".

The only problem is I can't simply because I'm not as good with animation cancels and through my trips in elo (From Bronze to Gold) I feel like people just play different. You can still win but you have to adapt to their style. You think the enemy jungler will gank you because you're over extended? Nah he doesn't want to, so you adapt and play more agro and dominate. Jungler is sitting in the top bush for 5 minutes waiting for the chance to gank you but you know he's there helping his pre-made with matching names? Just chill while you gain an exp lead and tell your jungler to take dragon. Support is up top for some reason? That's fine my bot just got the tower. I'd imagine in challenger people make better rotations that I'd have to adapt to, and Viper might if he doesn't hard carry,

The first will get you far, the second nowhere. By the way, I don't mean to offend you, this is just genuine advice coming from a coaching perspective.

I'm not offended, that's why I even asked about the Garen matchup lol I want to hit plat before the season ends.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 19, 20171 votes

Easier said than done, bot needs to ward the bush so I can come behind them. As Malph it's easier because I can flash ult.

Try to get some deepwards in their jungle and fuck their jungler up - in general, part of acknowledging the impact of junglers should always be that you can also impact the jungler (and therefore the whole game). Put a control ward on the bush behind their red/in the small bush in mid and ward their blue. If they are squieshy push in the lane (especially good in those matchups that outscale you but are weak early) and put your jungle ahead by pressuring theirs.

The only problem is I can't simply because I'm not as good with animation cancels and through my trips in elo (From Bronze to Gold) I feel like people just play different. You can still win but you have to adapt to their style. You think the enemy jungler will gank you because you're over extended? Nah he doesn't want to, so you adapt and play more agro and dominate. Jungler is sitting in the top bush for 5 minutes waiting for the chance to gank you but you know he's there helping his pre-made with matching names? Just chill while you gain an exp lead and tell your jungler to take dragon. Support is up top for some reason? That's fine my bot just got the tower. I'd imagine in challenger people make better rotations that I'd have to adapt to, and Viper might if he doesn't hard carry,

I think the best way to climb (especially in gold and lower) is through superior mechanics. "out macroing" doesn't really make sense given how bad rotations are anyways, so focus on your mechanics (by playing a lot of Riven!) and stomp so that you don't have to adjust much to your team.

I'm not offended, that's why I even asked about the Garen matchup lol I want to hit plat before the season ends.

Cool, just wanted to make sure :>

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20171 votes

We can both have shitty junglers, all that matters is which one decided to actually help

HOT BEEF Jun 19, 20172 votes

Why has there been so much hate for the jg lately and for no reason at all

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20171 votes

Quite the opposite I see more posts defending junglers as saints who can do no wrong while harassing anyone asking for a gank as someone "relying on their jungler to win their lane for them"

Excuse me for wanting a FREE KILL on the IMMOBILE KAYLE UNDER MY TOWER FOR 15 MINUTES NOT BEING PUNISHED FOR SHOVING HARD AND FREE FARMING.

Then half of them have the gall to say "Wow report top, fed hard" as we're both 0/0/0 but one of us has 2x the CS.

In a meta like this, bad junglers just shouldn't play jg.

HaIlMonitorJun 19, 20171 votes

What champ were you though? I will be honest, I dont like ganking champs like Shyvanna top who has zero cc when we have a annie mid for example.

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20171 votes

I've played a lot of champs, like Riven Darius Shen with CC. The Kayle game specifically I was Gangplank with Riven jungle. I have a slow with barrel and a slow with ult, she has a knock up and a stun.

WráthfulJun 19, 20171 votes

u cant expect good jg to carry every lane in gold most of the times it wont happen. after all u can blame yourself for losing because u can only make yourself a better player. just chill play alot of games and u will climb eventually played almost 800 games gold 1 currently deal with it u will get shitty teams till high diamond.

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20172 votes

Or, hear me out on this, just a thought, we make it so LANERS are the reason a lane win/loses instead of jungle pressure.

Starcraft243verJun 19, 20171 votes

To keep up with their braindead teammates.

AR URFJun 19, 20171 votes

The thing i absolutely hate about junglers(not the role, but the people behind the role) is that they'll come in for a gank, take the kill, than lane tax a little bit. if you take the kill, stay the fuck away from my minions. If I take the kill, than you can have 1 or 2. When I see a jungler that has more assists than kills, than I know that they know that giving laners the kills is what's really going to help them win. After all 300 gold vs 150 is quite a difference and getting even 1 kill on your laner gives you the advantage. And if your cs is equal or greater, than even more advantage you have.

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20171 votes

Actually they're helping you shove, which is good because you want the wave to reset

GULAG 4 UJun 19, 20171 votes

Why are 80% of the boards so braindead?

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20171 votes

Kappa

DB GamingJun 19, 20171 votes

Try playing in gold elo where the junglers come in to smite your cannon minion and then flash their mastery and waltz out of lane. Or junglers that want you to give up an enormous minion wave to your turret trying to follow up on their poorly timed gank. Good times.

Katie KilljoyJun 19, 20171 votes

I am gold. I know the feel of the gank when there's 3 waves blasting us with autos.