Now that you can no longer see stealth with pink wards after assasin update, I'm now more open to...

Schàdenfreude·Oct 7, 2016·117 votes·8,731 views

...the idea of pink ward slots.

Before, it would've taken away the stealth advantages of an assasin, and you can see how that would be extremely detrimental to some people. Now, with pink wards no longer being able to see stealthed champions, I believe a pink ward slot is worth considering. It's kinda frustrating when you can't really clear any vision around the map later on in the game, especially when contesting objectives.

89 Comments

Big LincolnOct 7, 201623 votes

im open to the idea of removing ward limit fam

let me light up that map

Electro522Oct 7, 201648 votes

If Riot does that, then supports get shafted into being nothing more than ward machines again, and I don't think anyone wants that.

Supreme Senpai69Oct 7, 201634 votes

You mean I get to leave my toxic ADC in order to roam the map, just me and my wards? And my team encourages it?

Holy hell, that would be like taking a smoke break at work. Sign me up.

RocketRelmOct 7, 20167 votes

You, your wards, and that jungle Zac who E'd onto you from across two walls. It's like a ~~hentai~~ dream come true.

Stand in my XOct 7, 20163 votes

4 walls*

Blackstone01Oct 7, 201610 votes

Don't worry your toxic ADC will still flame you for leaving to go ward.

DolasaurOct 7, 20164 votes

Yeah, but at least toxic ADC isn't on your screen, forcing you to watch the bad trades and missed CS :)

Big LincolnOct 7, 20162 votes

you're already doing that most of the game once you get out of lane phase

might as well let me do more than 3

Dr PoroOct 7, 20165 votes

On high level, the support only bought a gold generation item, boots and ALL the rest went into wards. Support players complained about not being able to get full build ever, because every item more are a bunch of wards less. Removing the gold sink for supports is one of the best things that happened to them.

Big LincolnOct 7, 20167 votes

easy fix just let sight stone refill outside of going back to base. kills/assists, clearing enemy wards, etc.

then we can fix the way XP works after

EROTIC RAID BOSSOct 7, 20163 votes

they don't want you to be able to light up the map that much, it leads to super safe play where you can always avoid fighting

TheSingularityOct 7, 20162 votes

In low elo supports still get shafted. Trinkets, ward limits..... they don't matter when people are simply too lazy to use their free ward whenever it comes off cd. Then have the audacity to go "ffs support why wasn't river warded -_-"

Remove mah ward limit and I'll make the map a Christmas tree.

BriarsOct 8, 20161 votes

I DO! i miss sightstone + mobi + 2 stacks of pinks and 2 stacks of greens

BriarsOct 8, 20161 votes

mind you i also did that on ~~teemo~~ satan sooo.... also shrooms errywhere

RedagaOct 8, 20161 votes

but thats all what their are now.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 7, 20167 votes

lol lets make it easier for champs who you cant see to ambush you and kill you... wow riot and i thought since s6 was coming to an end you were done with your major fuk ups... but once again ... lol rito

SchàdenfreudeOct 7, 201611 votes

What?

That's the point of an assasin. It's to rely on mobility and other tricks to kill their opponent. You can see how a Talon or Akali main would be extremely frustrated to have someone put a pink ward down and basically remove one of their only defenses, which is stealth.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 7, 20166 votes

but the pinks are there to so stealth and that is counter to them. if you cant see them at all then they have no counter play ( mind you pink wards are visible to all and are destroyed with 4 autos ) with not being able to see a stealth champ makes them stronger then before... cuz all they have to do is wait off to the side use their stealth ability and kill you and you have no clue cuz if you place the 1 pink your allowed to place and they see it /find it they kill it then you have no vision what so ever ... they are just making it more of a point of not warding and providing vision at all... and if that is what is gonna happen then all bans are gonna be used on nothing but champs with stealth

so no Akali Evelynn Khazix Rengar Shaco Talon Twitch MonkeyKing

played anymore

SchàdenfreudeOct 7, 20169 votes

That just shows you didn't listen to anything I said, so I will repeat myself.

Assasins have to rely on mobility and other unorthodox tricks in order to survive teamfights and kill people. Taking away that advantage is a huge blow to them. You're so focused on your own point of view, you're blind to what it is like on the other side. A pink ward placed down to remove your advantage (and sometimes your only hope of surviving) is extremely frustrating to play against.

You spoke of no counterplay to stealth. I disagree. LeeSin Karma Kled Rengar TwistedFate Lulu All these champions have some form of detection. But guess what? Is there any counterplay against pink wards placed down beside a stealth champion? I don't think so.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 7, 20166 votes

there is... every one can see that pink ward IT IS VISIBLE and 4 AUTOS KILL IT

SchàdenfreudeOct 7, 201613 votes

And exactly how long will that take for an assasin? Well, If you're against a full ap Akali, she's going to have less than one attack every second, so it will take more than four seconds for her to kill a pink ward. She also has to do this while being jumped on by the whole enemy team. Hardly anyone has time to autoattack a pink ward in a teamfight, especially an assasin. [zombie-brand-facepalm] Please stop grasping at dubious and unreliable methods to counter pink wards please. The next thing you will bring up are sweeping lens to disable it, so I will take care of that preemtively. They are on a 60 second cooldown, which isn't that much of a problem, and you will only be using them once in a teamfight, so whatever. Really, there is no downside to using the sweeping lens to disable pink wards. Except the enemy also has acess to sweeping lens as well, so you don't even really need pink wards to detect people. Just use sweeping lens.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 7, 20166 votes

and with a full ap akali kills you in about 2.3 seconds even if a pink ward is there

ll Ainz Sama llOct 7, 20163 votes

2.3 seconds is way too slow for full AP, most assassins kill in under a second

RavenMagusOct 8, 20161 votes

And if they don't, they die in under a second. (Rocket tag yay!)

ErrastasOct 7, 20162 votes

Pink wards a huge blow to them? I'm still waiting for red trink to not make Teemo shrooms completely useless

The Taco KatOct 7, 20161 votes

I'd like to point out that they are experimenting with a delayed shimmer effect where an invisible champion was at. For example, Kha'Zix will have a slight shimmer/sparkle where he just was about a tenth of a second ago.

Surr20plzOct 7, 20165 votes

I'm open to them not doing this.

DO NOT DO THIS!

ZT XperimentorOct 7, 20164 votes

Rather have this back instead of a pink ward slot item 3362

ShadragonOct 8, 20161 votes

Pink trinket was my waifu

ZT XperimentorOct 8, 20161 votes

. . . Can't say I was expecting that, but I too picked the pink version over the standard, especially if i was the support so I wouldn't have to waste item slots for a pink ward when I already had one burned a sightstone.

PacothegintOct 7, 20163 votes

So who cares if the pink ward doesn't give vision then?

ArbiterOfTruthOct 7, 20165 votes

According to the Dev post, the only change to vision wards is not revealing champs that are considered invisible. They will continue to reveal wards and traps. I believe they were considering letting vision wards reveal camouflaged champs.

ArthimetesOct 7, 20164 votes

The deal is they will not reveal short COMBAT STEALTH but they will reveal longer CAMOUFLAGE stealth

Combat stealth is like khaz, vayne, and shaco

Camouflage stealth is like evelyn, rengar, and teemo.

ArbiterOfTruthOct 7, 20162 votes

I'm aware of that. I was just pointing out that vision wards still have a purpose. Also they said that Teemo will be classified as Invisibility so he won't be revealed by vision wards.

ArthimetesOct 7, 20167 votes

Fuckin' Teemo.

Brain Errör 404Oct 8, 20161 votes

Invsibility, or combat? Why they gotta keep power to the Teemo. I cry every time.

INoble KnightIOct 7, 20162 votes

But Rengar's ult would be counted as combat stealth right?

DolasaurOct 7, 20162 votes

12 seconds is a loooooooooong time to be considered combat stealth. With Youmuu's/Mobi/Scuttle/Zilean/Lulu he can get halfway across the map. I'd classify that as something that's being used for long term pick, not mid-fight invisibility that requires untargetability.

But it's sort of a moot point, since he's getting a fairly major rework in the upcoming assassin update, so it's very probably his whole kit is going to change a ton.

OleandervineOct 7, 20162 votes

A better solution, rather than this whole stealth breakdown, is to have Pinks start off with 1-2HP, take damage from AOE, and gradually work up to 4 the longer they survive. This way, they're easily killable in combat, but they still achieve the same function when used outside of combat.

Great OzymandiusOct 7, 20162 votes

It's not a better solution.

Let me explain this to you in terms of shaco.

Late game, your team is sieging our tower. I am with my team defending tower as assassin Shaco. What I want to do is deceive onto your carry to kill your carry. Even without vision wards this is a difficult thing to do. Shaco doesn't instagib unless he is extremely far ahead and the adc has no defensive items. A caitlin, vayne, ezreal have to make a bunch of mistakes for shaco to kill even when he is not seen before getting to them.

Now, what a smart enemy team does is put a vision ward outside the tower I am protecting. Shaco's blink is short. This means that for shaco to target an enemy squishy, he needs to walk up to that squishy while the enemy team has full vision of him. Needless to say, shaco can do nothing offensive in this situation. He pretty much has to wait until the enemy walks away from their pink ward -- either because the enemy took the tower and is pushing further (they can drop another pinkward if they are smart), or because the enemy is diving our tower, or because the enemy took the tower and and going to 'b', or because my team initiated and the battle lasted long enough and chaotic enough that I can walk in range to use 'q' as a gapcloser.

How does your change fix this problem? It does't. I would still have to walk up to the pink ward in full vision of everyone else for me to kill it. If I used my gap closer to get to it, then I won't have invisibility after I kill it.

Your change fixes nothing.

As long as stealth champions like Shaco are hard-countered by a single item, they will have balance problems. Because Shaco is so weak in these sorts of situations, he needs to be very strong in other areas (like splitpushing or early ganking pressure) for him to be near a 50% winrate for Shaco mains. You can't nerf these areas of his kit unless you remove the pink ward hard counter.

The EcdysiastOct 7, 20161 votes

Shaco has an extra body shield that can also attack and apply on-hits. His stealth ability is ALSO a blink, which means it specifically counters the one ability intended to stop free movement.

That he has a stealth on top of a blink is already unhealthy enough. It won't be balanced until they remove one or the other. It's about as poor of a design choice for an ability as adding a silence on top of a root.

General Esdeath Oct 7, 20161 votes

They're adding it. It's on the 4 slot. Green by clicking once, pink by clicking 2 times fast.

darknukeOct 7, 20161 votes

Can someone explain to me how this new pink ward thing works? I can't find any info on it.

Do they work like scanners now, just showing the outline?

angery poutOct 7, 20164 votes

Nothing is really confirmed yet outside of that pinks will no longer reveal combat stealth (now called invisibility.) Examples are Kha'Zix's ultimate, Akali's shroud, Talon's ultimate, Shaco's Q (his boxes can still be revealed by pink wards,) and LeBlanc's passive. We do not know if red trinket will allow you to track them with a delay.

I'm pretty sure Riot is also unclear about how the proximity stealth (camouflage) will interact with pink wards.

Just in case somebody wonders after reading this, Riot stated in their original post that they are unsure about what to classify Twitch's stealth as. I think they're also unsure of Wukong to a lesser degree (he's the only non-assassin champion to have a stealth ability but the update will definitely affect him.)

it be lìke thatOct 7, 20161 votes

Evelynn players getting shafted again. its okay though, we will just keep waiting for the vgu/rework for 3 more years.

Hrkk PtooOct 7, 20161 votes

What about vayne, I mainly buy pinks to counter her.

it be lìke thatOct 7, 20161 votes

irrelevant, this buff helps vayne, screws eve.

angery poutOct 10, 20161 votes

If anything then Eve is unaffected by stealth changes. Her current stealth is the basis for camouflage. Unless there's something that Eve mains hate about her current stealth then I don't see the problem (or I missed something else in her kit.)

The EcdysiastOct 7, 20161 votes

Then how the hell are they going to work?

Stealth wards now only work against: Evelynn and no one else.

If you want to fight against a cloak, now instead of cutting yourself down 75g when you want to fight them, you just die.