Don't you just love how Tyrnd can kill you at level 3 with three RNG crits in a row?

Schàdenfreude··69 votes·3,773 views

I know I do.

130 Comments

youthere42 votes

Remember when Riot took the Dodge stat out of the game because RNG we're unhealthy and "antifun", but for some reason Crit remained?

nm101013 votes

I made a thread about fixing crit yesterday with multiple reasons, It got 7 downvotes and 2 responses. Apparently everyone loves random chance winning fights.

Carteeeer10 votes

your thread was 100% right, complete idiots downvoted ur thread

Cowseed5 votes

Read the post. It didn't suggest anything new nor gave much information that people didn't already know.

Your accuracy thing could have been stated a lot earlier in the post. And even then the possibility exists that 'accuracy' has been suggested many times already but with different wording used.

Apparently everyone loves random chance winning fights.

No. You can't really say that because people didn't like your post they are against what you are saying. That's a fallacy of the idea that 'your either with me or against me'. Good day.

nm10106 votes

Your accuracy thing could have been stated a lot earlier in the post.

You aren't familiar with Problem-Solution style papers? I literally could take that post and turned it in as a college essay (assuming my Prof knew what league is) after some spell checks and such and probably net an easy B.

And even then the possibility exists that 'accuracy' has been suggested many times already but with different wording used.

Without math or any substantial evidence, yes it has been suggested before by anyone who has any idea how DPS calculations work.

No. You can't really say that because people didn't like your post they are against what you are saying. That's a fallacy of the idea that 'your either with me or against me'. Good day.

You clearly can't pick up sarcasm, in fact you really can't pick up much when you are so self absorbed. Either way literally no one has made a valid argument against my point and still down voted the dead thread because I mentioned it here or they don't like my 0 bullshit policy for posts xD You guys are exactly what is wrong with this board, down voting things that would be long overdue balance changes because... What you didn't like my format or me? Go make your own damn post with the same suggestion in a better format. I spent hours checking math on different AD's and builds to make sure the change would be healthy for everyone because I want the game to BE BETTER. I'm sure you just assumed I plopped down and shit that thread out though right?

I'm sorry that you didn't like my formatting after that. I'll just take my substantiated claims, mathematically proven formulas, and essay format and fuck off xD

Cowseed1 votes

I'm sorry that you didn't like my formatting after that. I'll just take my substantiated claims, mathematically proven formulas, and essay format and fuck off xD

Dude, screw the format. This isn't an english class. You calculated the damage lucian could do with crit. And? So what? As I said it really isn't anything that impressive. What, you just add IE and then add 75% damage. Your 'calculations' made up about 70% of the post. 70% of the post was basically saying crit deals too much damage and is an inconsistent statistic. Then you went on to say how marks men could build crit and Lethality and how that messed with lethality items. THIS IS WELL KNOWN!! THIS IS THE REASON PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING MORE ABOUT CRIT!!!!

The only and I mean ONLY substancial thing worth reading was your tidbit on 'accuracy' which you gave absolutely 0 information on how it would work! This is what you said:

Accuracy, it even makes perfect sense, the more accuracy you have the more %damage amp you have on your auto attacks.

The hell is this supposed to even mean? Is it going to be a discount rageblade/fervor type thing where your damage amps up the more you actually auto. If that is the case I've seen the idea SEVERAL TIMES and most of the times while simple they gave an explaination that is a whole lot more clear than yours. Or is it just some percent stat boost that gives a percentage off base AD on your attacks. If that's the case then you really should have explained this a whole lot better instead of using one sentence after four or so paragraphs of filler text.

What you said here was beyond stupid though:

You clearly can't pick up sarcasm, in fact you really can't pick up much when you are so self absorbed.

Two things very wrong with that line.

a) Sometimes it's next to impossible to pick up sarcasm in written text. I'm here questioning what sarcasm your referinging to.

b) I kinda think that the guy who believes that his written piece is flawless because it was written in an oh-so holy college format is a little bit more self absorbed wouldn't you agree?

I'm mean like, this is kinda 101% self absorbed?

You guys are exactly what is wrong with this board, down voting things that would be long overdue balance changes because

What guys and how exaclty am I a part of their group? Because I didn't upvote your post? I didn't even downvote it earlier as I mentioned. I'm just telling you why people might have downvoted. But you aren't going to realize this because you are the one doing this but you are subconciously (hopefully not conciously) doing the 'you're either with me or against me' thing. I'm just explaining what I found wrong with the post and you seem ready to pass me off as some random hater (dear god I hate this word so much, but I have to use it because you are unwilling to see what you said as flawed).

Also just because the other people downvoted your post doesn't mean that they don't have a valid reason. I honestly thought the post was bad, no joke. College format or not the post might have had a good format but the content was extremely lacking.

Ending with the middle thing you said in your last paragraph.

Either way literally no one has made a valid argument against my point and still down voted the dead thread because I mentioned it here or they don't like my 0 bullshit policy for posts xD You guys are exactly what is wrong with this board, down voting things that would be long overdue balance changes because... What you didn't like my format or me?

Dude........... there's no argument to be had. You just posted stats.... that people could google and made calculations with the simpliest statistic in the game, crit. That just sounds like some extended repost. As for why they downvoted your dead thread have you ever thought that maybe those people thought the post was that good? Then you presumptuously presented what your opinions on the subject as the divine truth by saying they were long over due? Please... get over yourself. And lastly you said that people downvoted because they didn't like the format or you.

Well to be honest I doubt anyone really knows who you are and I KNOW that the people who read your post couldn't give less shits about your 'format'. What the hell even is that claim. People downvoted because of your format? ON A VIDEO GAME BOARD?!?! DON'T YOU THINK YOU'RE GRASPING AT STRAWS WITH A CLAIM LIKE THIS?!!

I've seen longer post that yours get positive feedback and I've seen shorter post that gave more substancial information. Don't claim shit like people don't like your format. That's just desperation.

nm10101 votes

Dude, screw the format. This isn't an english class

Does my education anger you? You seem to be agitated right at the start here.

You calculated the damage lucian could do with crit. And?

I showed how Lucian can bypass what should be a weakness due to the flaw in crit mechanics. Yes I gave information that has been seen before, but I also analyzed it to show how and why this is possible. Everyone knows that DNA exists and takes part in how our bodies are constructed, but until someone analyzes the exact way it takes place that information can not be used productively by the medical community.

What, you just add IE and then add 75% damage.

This sentence makes no sense with the context around it, I mean I get what you are referencing but why is it plopped in the middle of a paragraph with no context?

Your 'calculations' made up about 70% of the post. 70% of the post was basically saying crit deals too much damage and is an inconsistent statistic.

At least a third of it was actually why it warps the balance of lethality and black cleaver, while not actually affecting the adcs themselves. Throw in the other third for the accuracy stat and you have 33% of the post talking about why crit is inconsistent, I never said it dealt to much damage.

Then you went on to say how marks men could build crit and Lethality and how that messed with lethality items. THIS IS WELL KNOWN!! THIS IS THE REASON PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING MORE ABOUT CRIT!!!!

If this was well know I would expect a lot more threads complaining about crit and less complaining about marksmen abusing lethality. Since as I stated in the thread Marksmen are abusing crit chance to avoid scaling problems that should arise from building lethality/black cleaver/death's dance.

The only and I mean ONLY substancial thing worth reading was your tidbit on 'accuracy' which you gave absolutely 0 information on how it would work! This is what you said:

Its funny how quickly you go from assuming everyone has made a post on crit chance to stating I gave 0 information on how accuracy would work when if the former was true you would've seen this suggestion hundreds of times. I was a little skim, but it is quite simple take the %crit chance on any item and that becomes %auto attack damage amp. Infinity edge would have the passive "increases current accuracy by 50%", the dps of any character would be the exact same without any random chance. Ability based adc's may need tweaks, but overall this change would enhance game health a hundred fold.

Also you claim I give 0 information, yet "And even then the possibility exists that 'accuracy' has been suggested many times already but with different wording used". To imply it may have been suggested before, you would have to have at least a basic idea of what I am talking about right? Unless of course you just want to try to make me sound dumb, in which case you would flip flop like you did.

Sometimes it's next to impossible to pick up sarcasm in written text. I'm here questioning what sarcasm your referinging to.

"(Apparently) everyone loves random chance winning fights." You see that apparently? It gives the text an aloof tone, I didn't care what everyone else thought. I was being sarcastic.

I kinda think that the guy who believes that his written piece is flawless because it was written in an oh-so holy college format is a little bit more self absorbed wouldn't you agree?

xD You went out of your way to right a post to call me out and ended with that fallacy and good day thinking you were the king smart ass of the Gameplay boards. I pointed out my essay format after you wanted to question it, again I didn't care, that is why I have no mention of it being in essay format until you showed up.

I'm mean like, this is kinda 101% self absorbed?

Yes my frustration for trying to hammer through a balance change we have needed for years was me being self absorbed. I know for a fact there are at least 3 people on this board that will absolutely down vote anything I post on sight. Nice cut off on that quote btw to keep out the point I was making, you should work at a news network.

I didn't even down vote it earlier as I mentioned.

I'm sure it just lost a down vote since last night from one of the other random people, note I have FEK and it was at +8 -11 now it is at +8 - 10 as of sometime this morning.

doing the 'you're either with me or against me' thing.

You keep trying to straw man me, I have literally only said no one is giving legitimate reasons (outside of you this post saying I didn't describe accuracy enough) that my post should not at least be realistically considered as a solution to a problem that has lasted years. That does not mean I believe people all like crit as is, in fact if I had to analyze it myself I would argue that I simply do not have the presentation skills to effectively handle such a task. That is why I made this comment "Go make your own damn post with the same suggestion in a better format". I am not looking for glory, I legitimately just want this problem fixed.

I'm just explaining what I found wrong with the post and you seem ready to pass me off as some random hater

I actually passed you off as a random smart ass, doesn't mean I didn't read what you said even if I disagreed. In this response I even did agree I didn't explain accuracy near enough in my post.

Also just because the other people downvoted your post doesn't mean that they don't have a valid reason.

Someone literally said random chance is good for competitive games while down voting every thing I said to prove that wrong for league. Judging by the lack of comments I am willing to bet a large majority of the down votes didn't even finish it thinking I was complaining about Lucian or something.

Dude........... there's no argument to be had. You just posted stats.... that people could google and made calculations with the simpliest statistic in the game, crit.

I honestly don't know how else to explain analysis to you. I took what people say and found the root causes and concerns, no that is not difficult in hindsight, neither is inventing something that exists. Have you ever heard of the saying hindsight is 20/20? I am going above and beyond saying "Lucian can still do a lot of damage late game even with bork bc as his first two items" and instead breaking down why he still does damage comparable to a full crit adc without the need for similar amounts of crit.

Then you presumptuously presented what your opinions on the subject as the divine truth by saying they were long over due?

... They are long overdue, you get nothing of value out of random crit chance in a competitive game. If you can give a reason that it has any value I'd love it.

Well to be honest I doubt anyone really knows who you are and I KNOW that the people who read your post couldn't give less shits about your 'format'.

I've been around the boards for almost 2 years, as I said I know of at least 3 people who down vote anything I say if they see it because of various reasons. As for the format issues, isn't that the exact point you brought up originally? I didn't get to the accuracy section fast enough? I can't imagine you would say you "KNOW" that people didn't care about that when you have it in writing above, are you not familiar with what format is?

ON A VIDEO GAME BOARD?!?!

I just like that you put the ?!?! there, I answered this above.

I've seen longer post that yours get positive feedback and I've seen shorter post that gave more substancial information.

... You thought format meant length...

https://i.gyazo.com/cc1061b99020ad2b117685e62a4c3084.png

It is the order in which the post is arranged... Which is exactly what you complained about "Your accuracy thing could have been stated a lot earlier in the post".

Again this entire post is you trying to sound smart, you don't have a single paragraph without an insult, strawman, or CAPS LUL at me. Don't bother responding if you are just trying to get a gotcha moment, this thread will be gone in a week and nobody (myself included) will care about you. Though I'm sure you will respond because you have to be right, right?

Cowseed1 votes

I'm just gonna go straight to a supposed 'ad hominem' because the post I really can't bother to point oppose all those points which I find weak (which is too much of the post) and ultimately because you seem to be the root of the problem along with that attitude you have.

Your overly condescending and believe your above it all and that us the people not in agreement with you are non educated or at the very least haven't gone to college or something along those lines. You also assume I'm trying to 'sound' smart but quite frankly this is just one of my many tones, bruh. I talk how I feel like but I'll take that as a compliment because you think I sound smart.

The final thing is I think your overly agitated because I said good day to you. What did you expect me to say? 'Fuck off and die'?

And about your 'format' strawman which I do feel necesarry to address. You kind of contradict yourself because you say I'm assuming that what you mean by format is length. THEN you go on to say that you didn't mean length when you refer to format. But that's kinda some bullshit slander right there. Because the only person saying I'm complaining about the format is YOU when I EXPLICITLY STATED that I was not and you even went as far as to say I was wrong about the thing I SAID I WAS NOT MENTIONING!!! That is you plain as day putting words in my mouth.

Your last paragraph was kinda petty though. As a college student shouldn't you not be doing stuff like that? Listen I don't have to be right. The only thing it takes is for you not to be wrong then I can go on my merry way.

And yes, I'm giving you the go ahead to say that I have no points and yours are right because I ignored them. I honestly see it as hopeless to speak to you at this point I'll just respond to the things that are extremely stupid like the comment about 'format' or whatever.

Do your worst. Though it's only your bark thats annoying. Your bit is sub-par.

nm10101 votes

I'm just gonna go straight to a supposed 'ad hominem' because the post I really can't bother to point oppose all those points which I find weak (which is too much of the post)

I responded to all the 'you' statements you made. I did show frustration with you, but I answered all your points with evidence and reasons which makes ad hominem a ridiculous claim. As for the "I'm not going to respond to all those weak points" really reads as I have no answer so here's another random fallacy I googled.

ultimately because you seem to be the root of the problem along with that attitude you have.

Now that is ad hominem. I won't respond to your points, but it's because you have an attitude not because I don't have answers.

Your overly condescending and believe your above it all and that us the people not in agreement with you are non educated or at the very least haven't gone to college

Quote of when I said you were uneducated or haven't gone to college or strawman

You also assume I'm trying to 'sound' smart but quite frankly this is just one of my many tones, bruh. I talk how I feel like but I'll take that as a compliment because you think I sound smart.

Lul

You kind of contradict yourself because you say I'm assuming that what you mean by format is length. THEN you go on to say that you didn't mean length when you refer to format.

Let's break this down

"You are assuming format is length."

"I didn't mean length when I say format"

Both of those seem to say I did not mean length with format. Please point out a contradiction.

Because the only person saying I'm complaining about the format is YOU when I EXPLICITLY STATED that I was not

"Your accuracy thing could have been stated a lot earlier in the post."

Formatting complaint.

Your last paragraph was kinda petty though.

Petty for... What? Saying that you literally insulted, strawmanned or CAPS'd at me every paragraph? Or for saying no one on this board cares about either of us? Or for saying I don't care about you? Or for me psychoanalyzing you?

And yes, I'm giving you the go ahead to say that I have no points and yours are right because I ignored them. I honestly see it as hopeless to speak to you at this point I'll just respond to the things that are extremely stupid like the comment about 'format' or whatever.

Do you have control problems? Trying to "give me the go ahead to say that I have no points and yours are right because I ignored them" is possibly the most "I have to dominate conversation" statement I've heard this year. And yet again I've told you 3 times now I do not care about being right, I am just pointing out you are an incredibly ignorant hypocrite who couldn't use a fallacy correctly if he googled it.

P.S. Ignorant as in having a lack of knowledge before you try to quote that as me calling you uneducated.

crippler382 votes

I thought it was because random chance preventing damage annoyed them, since that made it so your purchases felt meh due to RNG.

Where as against crit damage you can buy armor or something to reduce the damage they do, I don't think there was anything for dodge (not sure, didn't play back then, I know in dota you can buy MKB to counter dodge.

Junkο3 votes

The fact that they reworked Ashe to use a "crit boosts your AA damage by %" system, saw that it gave her the same DPS as other ADCs while making her more healthier to fight, but then didn't implement it on other champions completely baffles me to no end.

0532 votes

I think it was put in as a weakness (?) to compensate for her slows. She also does bonus damage after applying her passive, but I think it was a pretty cool change.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Remember when Riot took the Dodge stat out of the game because RNG we're unhealthy and "antifun", but for some reason Crit remained?

I also remembered non-RNG spell vamp being taken out but RNG Crit life steal remaining too.

AwesomeGuyDj27 votes

No, i hate how he can push a fucking button and become unkillable to cheese kill you, and all he ever does is splitpush. Its such a toxic strategy.

Tails90166 votes

The real way to play him is not only split-push, but come into a teamfight every now and then to burn everyone's flashes on the enemy team or they will get 3 shot. Ult isn't even needed.

INoble KnightI7 votes

Ah Tryndamere the brave, angry, undying berserker who Sir Robin's the fuck out of every fight.

Barcid7 votes

*Level 1

King of Demons6 votes

That's a hot take.

Now here's the hottest one: Level 1 E start, hit minions, E through minions, hit champion get two crits, zone him off the minions for the next 3 minutes.

If you know that he's gonna do it, then why do you even bother fighting him if you can just choose not to

Bouncemaster Zac6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Taku of Rivia,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=V64d9jT8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-02T16:55:53.031+0000)

That's a hot take.

Now here's the hottest one: Level 1 E start, hit minions, E through minions, hit champion get two crits, zone him off the minions for the next 3 minutes.

If you know that he's gonna do it, then why do you even bother fighting him if you can just choose not to

Because you can't choose not to. That's how Trynd works. You either try to farm, get shit on and die; or you get no farm, hug tower, get dove and die. You lose, or you lose. (or pick Pantheon)

SenzaRespiro896 votes

Because you can only actually punish him at the first 6 levels? If you don't beat him there he will just towerdive your ass and become a monster at 20 mins

AD champs only3 votes

{quoted}

Because you can only actually punish him at the first 6 levels? If you don't beat him there he will just towerdive your ass and become a monster at 20 mins

Is that so hard to just walk away when you see

UNDYING RAGE UNDYING RAGE UNDYING RAGE UNDYING RAGE UNDYING RAGE

ChaosThief6 votes

When he has a slow that only works when your back is turned to him, a dash that has its' cooldown reduced by 2 seconds per critical hit he deals, and movement speed boosts from possible item 3087 and warlord's bloodlust mastery, not to mention his boots?

I'd say at times it can be pretty hard to run. Not impossible, but not too easy either.

General Esdeath 8 votes

Good thing he doesn't have a slow, or a spin that goes farther than Lucian dash, or summoner 4 summoner 6

Quepha6 votes

i've still never seen a replay where trynd won in the early game due to some insane RNG swing

General Esdeath 3 votes

Go watch BoxerPete, happens so often

Quepha3 votes

I do, it's always the enemy misplaying so he gets a string of autos in, and that string of autos crits an average number of times.

General Esdeath 1 votes

I'm talking about the times when he lives with like 50 HP level 3 and gets the crit for 100 damage.

Quepha1 votes

Well sure, if you reduce an entire laning phase to a 1 second pivotal moment while ignoring the minutes leading up to it, then this game seems very RNG heavy. But that kind of swing is really no different from minion block, an ability coming off cooldown 0.1 seconds before the enemy's, a couple extra ranged minions autoing you, or ending up exactly one pixel inside of tower range. These things are so minute you can't really predict them, but they also are known possibilities that should be accounted for as part of the risk which can turn a fight one way or the other.

General Esdeath 2 votes

But Pete would have died if he didn't crit, he's even died and said "Damn I didn't get the crit"

This thread isn't about things that you didn't expect because it was fast, it's about the random crits, something most people think is unhealthy because of the RNG, similar to dodge before it was removed for that reason.

Quepha1 votes

I wasn't describing 'fast' things, a lot of them are pretty slow. But they're all uncertain possibilities that can steer an encounter.

They're just risks you have to consider and can't be sure which way they'll swing for you so you have to weight the odds against what the potential rewards would be, then either back off or go for it and accept the outcome.

General Esdeath 2 votes

They're not uncertain though, just things we can't predict because they happen fast, like minions suddenly moving for a different target.

By this logic, never fight Trynd.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

By this logic, never fight Trynd when he has a lot of rage.

Congratulations, I have just bestowed upon you the wisdom needed to beat Trynd. It's a pretty simple concept but every day I watch people ignore it.

General Esdeath 2 votes

No, just never fight him. 1 auto builds fury, and even at 5 fury he can still RNG crit you.

But of course a Trynd main will defend their cheese.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

No, just never fight him. 1 auto builds fury, and even at 5 fury he can still RNG crit you.

But of course a Trynd main will defend their cheese.

I have literally never seen a Tryndamere delete an entire hp bar with one crit in the lane phase. It takes several auto attacks to kill an enemy and across several auto attacks the crits will average out to a predictable amount of dps.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Did I say one shot? No, I said RNG crit.

Quepha1 votes

A single RNG crit doesn't lose you the game, the lane, or even the trade, do you just go sit under turret and spam /ff for the rest of the game because you saw a crit animation? I don't understand you at all.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Who said losing lane or game? I said Pete gets a kill by that one RNG crit.

Quepha1 votes

But you just admitted that tryndamere doesn't delete an entire hp bar in one crit. Are you confused?

SquashCannon5 votes

Most top laners can pressure him and force him to use his heal or even zone him off of getting rage in the first place after level 2.

Respect his level 1 potential and you're good to go

Elsewise21 votes

I didn't respect his level one and got bodied. As Rammus. While starting W. Feels bad when a champion designed entirely around getting people to hit him gets demolished by someone designed entirely around hitting people.

sir d wreck3 votes

I do think Gnar is overtuned, but I do think you took the wrong approach to this match up. Remember that Rammus is more of a jungler than a laner and can get poked down in early levels by many auto attacking ranged champs because his ability isn't always up, plus his level 1 is terrible and thus will be pretty shitty compared to any ranged champ early especially Gnar. Rammus does want people to attack him, but on his own terms... and I feel Rammus starts to shine through his engage in his ganks and late game he's a monster tank. Gnar is definitely a overkill atm though, so please do not take my post as defending Gnar!

Elsewise12 votes

Who mentioned Gnar? The thread's about Tryndamere!

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Until he level 1 ignites and all ins you, critting you 4 times in a row to win the lane.

SquashCannon1 votes

[deleted]

Ap Mid Burst2 votes

He doesn't see competitive play because he is chance based.

AD champs only4 votes

So what you want to say ?

Let's nerf an immobile melee carry, but let's leave Caitlyn and Draven bursting us from a distance with 40% dmg reduction.

Okay.

TotalJerk12 votes

Did you seriously call Tryndamere immobile?

AD champs only3 votes

{quoted}

Did you seriously call Tryndamere immobile?

His laning phase 'mobility' is normal. Just a dash. It's pretty meh since it has a long ass cooldown

DJMason888 votes

You know he can reduce the cool down just by critting, right?

AirKingNeo2 votes

He is. His movement speeds sucks and his dash cooldown is decently high enough.

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