Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I have to say it and hear an opinion.
LeBlanc is BS. I cant get over the fact that she has two gap closers/escapes that deal a ton of damage AND she can jump back to them. Honestly, I think they should just nerf her like they did Zed's ult.
But... so as long as rito wont nerf her, I need help beating this monster.
Ideas, tips? Thanks.
Rico Nasty1 votesThere's no counterplay for her. I'm not even trolling. There is ZERO ZIP NADA counterplay for LeBlanc. She just W's in, W's out, Ult's in, Ult's out, and you're dead. And then no one can catch her cause of her passive. She needs a rework imo.
Kubuś1 votesYeah, she scares me. Probably the worst champ to lane against, worse than Heim imo. I hope next patch will nerf/rework her
1000angrybees1 votesShe has a lot of things they should fix on her. from visuals to clunky spell effects and hitboxes, she needs something changed. Also, I wish they'd do something to her ultimate. Give it like, 50 mana cost. That's half the average ultimate cost.
Or maybe just change it in general? I mean, she's supposed to be deceptive, not a copycat anyway.
Kubuś1 votesYep Im crossing my fingers for a nerf/rework next patch, hopefully.
AngleZhonYaShldr1 votesYou'd have to give us a few of your preferred champions to play mid lane before we could give you tips and tricks against Leblanc.
I agree Leblanc is bullshit, cancerous, and frustrating. I don't know why Riot refuses to balance her so that she's not auto #1 pick in every game pretty much. She's even banned in quite alot of games, that should give Riot an idea of how much people dislike playing against that champion.
That said, Leblanc is not unbeatable. While there is much, much less counterplay against her in lane than any other matchups, there is still is a precious small amount IF A) Your champion has the right tools and B) Your reaction speed is fast enough / greater than the Leblanc player's. Alot of Leblanc players are overconfident and sloppy because they have the perception (somewhat justified) their champion is untouchable. You can capitalize on this mentality and these misplays. Although, you will occasionally face a Leblanc player that makes very few / no mistakes in which case the opportunities for counterplay are virtually non existent. In that case, you will just attempt to survive the lane, stall the game, and plan to win the game through teamfighting and objective control, both of which Leblanc does not really excel at if she's not very ahead.
I personally think the biggest problems with Leblanc are her W cooldown, which with a standard Leblanc build achieves 35% CDR very early in the game bringing rank 5 W down to a 6.5 sec cd (with of course the capability to return back and the capability to Mimic W for 2x the teleports). The current capabilities of her W promote very non interactive gameplay (ala pre-rework Nidalee style) in which Leblanc plays the game but never has to interact with the enemy team. The second, and less serious problem with Leblanc is her ability to do a W > Q > R > E or W > E > Q > R combo, chunking any non tank champion for massive amounts of damage at any point in the game while never risking any personal safety.
Kubuś1 votesOh yeah, probably ahould have given you a few of my mains, my mistake!
I really like playing Zed, Lissandra, and more recently, Fizz.
Thanks for the help!
AngleZhonYaShldr1 votesI'll just comment on the Lissandra vs Leblanc matchup as I feel that one has the most potential for success. Zed vs Leblanc is ENTIRELY a skill matchup that can go any number of ways depending on the decisions and skill level of the respective players, rather difficult for me to detail step by step what to do in every situation. I'm not going to comment on the Fizz vs Leblanc matchup because I feel Fizz is pretty underpowered in the mid solo lane at the moment (probably still not impossible to beat Leblanc with perfect play).
So for Lissandra vs Leblanc, it is very possible for Lissandra to win this lane. Pre 6 I feel Leblanc has the initiative and pressure, but from 6 on Leblanc has to be very careful as Lissandra can easily kill her. In the early levels, you should be playing more reserved, respecting Leblanc's W range. Your goal should be to maintain proper spacing between you and Leblanc; you never want to let Leblanc get a free Q > W + on you. Be especially careful after you have used your Q for cs / waveclear as the Leblanc will look to combo you while your Q is on cd. You can't stop Leblanc from W'ing to gap close and Q'ing you from distance, but you will take far less damage from that rotation than if you allow her to Q you then detonate the Q with a W hit. IF you do find yourself in a situation where Leblanc is able to W directly on to you, you should attempt to trade back as much damage as possible after she combo's you.
The most effective way to do this is to Q her instantly as she W's into you, followed by an almost as immediate W to root her in place so she can't return back immediately. The next step requires a little bit of finesse, and might require a little bit of practice. After rooting her in place with your W, you should be looking to see where her return W point is, you should then be moving your champion to align (or as close as possible) for an E that hits both the rooted Leblanc and drops you off on or near her return W location. If the Leblanc W's into you from straight ahead, this should be relatively easy. More advanced Leblanc players will W into you from odd angles, attempting to make it more difficult for enemy line skill shots to hit both locations at once. If you were successful, the result should be you connect with a Q > W > E on the Leblanc (weaving in an auto attack or two), after which the Leblanc returns to her W, and you reactivate your E, which should land you right on (or hopefully very near) the Leblanc. The idea behind following her with your E is becasue your Q is a much shorter cd than any of her abilities, and while Leblanc's Q is not that much longer than your Q, by itself Leblancs Q does very little. Your goal after reactivating your E should be to land another Q and a few autos on Leblanc as she retreats from her previous burst combo. BE CAREFUL, this is very important, do not chase TOO LONG after you follow her with your E (6-8 sec's MAX AFTER her initial W engagement), the idea is to just tack on a little extra damage with a 2nd Q and a couple autos and promptly back off, not kill her. If you chase her too long, two very bad things can happen. 1) Her W will come off cd or get very close to refreshing in which case Leblanc will just turn on you and reengage. 2) Her jungler will notice you're chasing FOREVER with no escape cd's and will just walk mid for a free kill.
This is also VERY IMPORTANT. As Lissandra, and especially after the Q nerf, you DO NOT have the damage to out burst Leblanc 100-0 (unless you are like 10-0 or something). The way you successfully kill or push a Leblanc out of lane is to plan for the LONG TERM GAME. It will take you AT LEAST two separate rotations as described above to kill Leblanc or drop her into an hp range that allows for a kill. Your initial goals should be to avoid / minimize Leblancs free damage on you from levels 1-3, and to avoid unnecessary damage or trade back more with the method described above from levels 3-5. After you hit 6, the dynamic changes. If you haven't messed up too much already, and Leblanc isn't massively ahead, you now have kill pressure on her with your R and R+jungle gank. The only thing that changes about the lane after 6 against Leblanc is that you have to be doubly respectful of her W range. Leblanc's ideal easy combo on you will be to Q > W > Mimic W (R). This does quite alot of damage, but shouldn't outright kill you unless you are quite low to begin with. Leblanc will be looking to chunk you as a first step, wait for her R to come off cooldown, then all in + ignite you for the 2nd rotation. The way you discourage her from doing this is by trading back equal or preferably MORE damage (as described in the 3rd paragraph) when Leblanc tries to poke/harass/chunk you. If you successfully win/evenly trade with her throughout the lane. When she goes in for an attempted kill on you, you should now be properly positioned to survive if not flat out win the fight, kill her or push her out of lane (that's a win).
The technique to kill Leblanc or win an "all in" fight with her is as much about the setup as described above as it is about the tactics and mechanics of the deciding fight itself. So when a Leblanc goes all in on you for the kill, you should be anticipating this possibility ahead of time and mentally preparing your gameplan for how you will be handling it. You need to be aware of your available cd's, your available summoners spells, and yours/hers current health level. The status of these three things will decide how you handle the Leblanc all in assassination attempt. This all in fight will be a little bit more intense and faster paced than the previous fights in the lane. Leblanc will most likely be igniting you, and NOT retreating/returning to her W until you die (or she panics that she might lose). If you have played properly up until now, Leblanc should optimally be at around 60-70% hp (EVEN BETTER if you had managed to pop her stealth/clone passive earlier), and you should have all your cd's available and VERY IMPORTANT: enough MANA for all four or your abilities.
Now for the fight, the usage of your abilities at this point is fairly straightforward, but it is very important that you don't miss any of your abilities, as Lissandra doesn't have an overabundance of damage at her disposal. When Leblanc all in's you she will most likely start running STRAIGHT at you to get in range for Q > W > Mimic W (R). This will quickly become very obvious what is going to happen. Sometimes and rarely, if you are doing a good job of maintaining proper distancing, the Leblanc will say "fuck it" and flash to gap close in close enough for her Q > W > Mimic W(R) combo. If you are fairly healthy at the start of this all in, your only focus at this point should be connecting with your offensive spells, do NOT be scared of the Leblanc or panic that you might die. Fast reflexes and connecting with your spells is the priority here. Once the fight starts, you want to IMMEDIATELY Q her the instant she's in range (optimally while shes dashing into you), to get your Q on cd and on its way to being available a 2nd time ASAP. Now, you'll want to then immediately R her after your initial Q AS FAST AS YOUR REFLEXES ALLOW YOU TO DO. The reasoning behind this is that stunning Leblanc with your R interrupts her burst combo on you, significantly lessening the damage you take and your danger level. The secondary idea behind R'ing very early in the fight is that Leblanc will most likely be at a higher hp level, and not yet have triggered her stealth/clone passive. Your R is the only targetted / point and click ability you have, and in the adrenaline and chaos of the fight, if you were to save your R until later, and accidentally misclick it on her clone when her passive activates, that would be sad and unfortunate. There is also the added bonus, that if you trigger Leblancs stealth/clone passive WHILE she's cc'ed in your R tomb, she's not able to confuse you as to her position because she's not going anywhere while entombed by your R. From this point, it's pretty simple, After you Q > R her, you'll want to auto her once (because she's cc'd in your R and shes not going anywhere). I recommend if you're going for a kill on her, that you ignite her now, preferably before her stealth/clone passive triggers; this way if all else fails and you get confused as to which Leblanc is real, Ignite will betray the real one. Then the instant before you estimate your R wears off, you'll want to W her, freezing her in place once again and preventing her from escaping, If you're feeling confident, you can squeeze in another auto here, and then just as your W wears off, E right into her (hitting her is important for damage), but also try to position the E so that it teleports you closer to Leblancs W return point. At this point, Leblanc should be shitting herself in a panic, spamming her W in an attempt to escape back, If you aimed your E correctly, you can simply folllow a now almost dead, retreating Leblanc, and hit her with what should now be your ready Q and a few more auto's. At this point if she still has flash, she may flash away to save herself, you can decide for yourself if you wish to flash after her if you have a Q ready, or she's low enough an auto would kill her. Otherwise, if you don't manage to secure the kill, you can consider burning her flash and making her base a solid win in your lane.
Some additional notes:
I didn't mention or factor in much Leblanc's E, which is her skill shot chain root. The reason is because it shouldn't really have that much of an impact in fights between the two of you. Technically, for Leblanc to Q > W > E > Mimic E(R) allows her to do the most potential damage of any of her rotations. However, this combo rarely happens, as it requires Leblanc to have a clear path to her target for ~7 sec or so, and requires Leblanc to stick around in close proximity for the same amount of time (dangerous for Leblanc). You should ALWAYS be aware of a incoming Leblanc E and be ready to dodge it. It is blocked by minions so simply standing in a minion wave pretty much counters it, but if you do get hit it, it will hurt. Cont'd
AngleZhonYaShldr1 votesFor the most part, you should be quite capable of dodging her E, if you can not then it's something you need to work on. Most Leblancs are hilariously bad at skill shots (that's why they're playing Leblanc). Some of them will even cast our their E for the small initial damage on hit then teleport back to their W and cancel their E themselves. All in all, it shouldn't be a huge problem, just be aware of it.
As for Leblancs stealth/clone passive. It is a very good and sometimes confusing and frustrating passive. There are ways to counter it though. As I explained above, Lissandra's R is an terrain object hard CC, it is especially good for neutralizing Leblanc's passive. If you ignite a Leblanc when you all in her, the ignite will betray the real one. Also, if you ping Leblanc with a target ping just before you fight her / her passive triggers, the target ping will stay on the real Leblanc after the two reappear! Finally, if all else fails and you can avoid tunnel visioning, you can click on one of the Leblancs, the one with items, is the real one, the one without items, is the clone. The same holds true for Jungle buffs. If Leblanc has blue buff, and you trigger her passive, the real one will still have blue buff and the clone will not.
Final thoughts about fighting Leblanc as Lissandra: Be careful when choosing to chase Leblanc with your E. Your E is a powerful escape tool, if you are concerned or worried that Lelbanc's jungler might be around to help her or gank you, DON'T use your E as a gap closer to chase her. It will leave you defenseless and a sitting duck. You'll have to use your best judgement here, If you saw the jungler gank top 5 seconds ago, chase with E. If Leblanc is playing strangely aggressive all of a sudden, maybe back off a bit and ward, be cautious of jungler presence. The worst thing you can do is snowball a Leblanc early. As Lissandra, you are 100x more influential and impactful in mid/late game teamfights than an underpowered Leblanc. If you're aren't confident yet that you can crush your Leblanc opponent in lane, don't risk dying recklessly, and just try to farm and play safe until mid/late game teamfights.
Also, don't use your W wastefully as a cs'ing / waveclear tool, you'll want to make sure it's ALWAYS available to root the Leblanc the instant she W's into to you for harass/poke. If the Leblanc notices that you're spamming your W on lane minions, she'll take major advantage of that and abuse the hell out of you. Try to learn to cs from proper distance with just your Q + auto's. Leblanc is bad at wave control in lane, so don't let her build up a huge minion wave that crashes into your turret. If she tries to push the lane into you (which shouldn't happen often), just thin out the minions so the lane doesn't push as hard. This should always allow you to have your W in reserve in case she dashes into you with her W.
ALWAYS PING REPEATEDLY FOR YOUR TEAM when Leblanc goes missing, your jungle needs to help you with wards and map vision, but always try to have a ward down covering the bottom side of mid river so that you can see if Leblanc roams to gank your bot lane. Don't just half ass it with one missing ping on your mid lane. Put the extra effort out, Spam ping red danger pings on your side lanes themselves. You can even ping in the trail that you think the Leblanc is following. THE WORST thing that can possibly happen is for your Leblanc to roam early and kill your side lanes. This not only will snowball Leblanc but also put your side lanes on tilt and ruin their attitude.
Health pots: Health pots are extremely important for you to use effectively against a Leblanc. This is the #1 thing low elo players fail to do. Against Leblanc that is pressuring you hard in lane and making your life miserable, DON'T forget to buy a couple pots every time you base, if you don't play perfectly, you will be taking a lot of damage from a Leblanc in lane, it is ESSENTIAL that you keep your health level as high as possible at all times. It is also SUPER important that you remember to pop a health pot WHILE you're fighting a Leblanc, the extra 100 hp or so you gain from a pot while engaged in a fight can be the difference between living and dying. This is something all players have trouble remembering sometimes, to pop hp potions while fighting.
Leblanc is a cheesy, one dimensional champion. She relies on cheesing kills on her lane opponent very early in lane (1-3 extremely dangerous period). Above all DO NOT DIE UNNECESSARILY to her early in the game and be aware of her movements and roams and COMMUNICATE with your team to keep them safe. WARDS WIN GAMES against Leblanc (most things really but Leblanc especially). If you manage to make it into the mid/late game (15 minutes +) without Leblanc getting massively fed and snowballed. You're in good shape to win the game. Leblanc is poor cs'er, if she can't get gold from 1v1 lane kills, roams, or bad misplays in teamfights, she essentially useless. As your confidence grows, you should be able to trade more evenly with her and frequently even beat her in lane. Until then, focus on maintaining proper distancing from her W, farming, and map vision.
Good Luck.
Edit: While fighting a Leblanc in a crucial "all in" fight, it is viable to Q into W immediately instead of R'ing second as described above. If you are concerned that you might not win the fight, you are getting tower dived, or you notice that enemies are converging on you while you fight Leblanc, you might want to save your R to use on yourself as a defensive tool later. This is perfectly acceptable. Keep in mind that whether you R on Leblanc or you R on yourself; all enemies, including the target, take the SAME amount of damage. There is no damage advantage to R an enemy over R'ing yourself. The only difference comes in as to whether you cc/stun the enemy or render yourself invulnerable. This is a situational difference, and one you will have to use your judgement on. It is perfectly viable to Q > W > auto > R(enemy) > ignite > E > auto > Q > auto when all ing a Leblanc. You just want to be aware of Leblanc's steatlh/clone passive and not screw yourself up.
Kubuś1 votesWow, thanks for the time out of your day to help me. Have a great day, mate!
Thanks again!