@Meddler @Riot @WHO EVER THE HELL I NEED TO YELL AND VENT AT.

Wukong X Ahri·Sep 9, 2016·129 votes·15,831 views

So i read about the Kog rework again. (or unrework i should say?)

Now i see you talk about Morde and how it missed the mark and all and yeah your damn right you did.

So I'm asking why is it Kogmaw gets to be a special snowflake and get fixed before Morde? You all fucked him up before Kog so why is he getting the back sit?

Ill be real i'm so honestly pissed off when i saw that post and trying my BEST not to go full rage on here and just endless rant but seriously this just feels like double standards.

idk maybe i just needed to vent w.e

-pissed off Hue main.

288 Comments

l Helios lSep 9, 201685 votes

I believe the tl;dr of what Meddler said was this:

"Kog wasn't unhealthy pre-rework, so we're reverting it. Morde was unhealthy before and after, so we need to do more work instead of just removing changes."

Pika FoxSep 9, 20162 votes

Problem is kog is more fun now than before, so theyre removing fun gameplay.

SchoenbergSep 10, 201634 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fIwhjJNo,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2016-09-09T23:39:29.301+0000)

Problem is kog is more fun now than before, so theyre removing fun gameplay.

It really is fun to just press w and sit there clicking on people.

resumedSep 10, 201652 votes

Soraka main here yes

Duke AnaxSep 10, 20167 votes

You are doing it qrong, Q is the key.

RiotRiot ThEntropistSep 10, 201680 votes

Yo,

I don't make these decisions but my understanding of this was that Kog had a previous state that we felt was healthy and good for the game. When we looked to update the Marksman class we tried to examine him to make him even better, and missed the mark. We are okay going back to a space that we felt worked whereas we do not feel the same with Morde.

I'll try to gather more info and come back with a more concrete response, but I believe that was the gist of it.

The Yetii RiderSep 10, 20161 votes

How do you figure?

You gutted the attack speed on Runaan's and lowered the AD on several items at the same time that you changed this previous incarnation. What is Kog supposed to build when he can't stack AS to reach 5.0?

l Helios lSep 10, 20164 votes

item 3078

He was one of the original Tri-Force ADCs. Him, Corki , and Ezreal , granted on Ez item 3025 became a replacement for Tri.

The Yetii RiderSep 10, 20162 votes

{quoted}

He was one of the original Tri-Force ADCs. Him, , and , granted on Ez became a replacement for Tri.

Trinity Force only works when Kog's ult is worth casting on repeat. How is this Kog going to get multiple casts off?

Also Corki has been trash since Trinity Force lost its crit. Between Kog's ult nerf and the crit removal, I don't think people will find any success building Trinity Force on him.

Kog And BallsSep 10, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fIwhjJNo,comment-id=0011000100000000,timestamp=2016-09-10T03:18:03.075+0000)

Trinity Force only works when Kog's ult is worth casting on repeat. How is this Kog going to get multiple casts off?

Also Corki has been trash since Trinity Force lost its crit. Between Kog's ult nerf and the crit removal, I don't think people will find any success building Trinity Force on him.

Fucking 100% this I was so excited when I saw they were going to revert Kog rework until I saw they were going to leave his Ult in its current state.

Current Trinity would be super sick on pre-work Kog cause he didn't heavily benefit off the crit as much as he would from the additional attack speed.

Weaving ult shots in between autos was the most satisfying feeling you could get from playing Kog. I just can't believe Riot would be this dense about what the player base wants.

KarcistSep 10, 201614 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ThEntropist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fIwhjJNo,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2016-09-10T00:55:51.625+0000)

Yo,

I don't make these decisions but my understanding of this was that Kog had a previous state that we felt was healthy and good for the game. When we looked to update the Marksman class we tried to examine him to make him even better, and missed the mark. We are okay going back to a space that we felt worked whereas we do not feel the same with Morde.

I'll try to gather more info and come back with a more concrete response, but I believe that was the gist of it.

Why isn't his ult getting reverted too? I was ecstatic when I heard Kog was getting reworked, but then I read that his current ult was staying and it was one of the biggest letdowns I've experienced playing this game. AP Kog'maw is completely unviable right now.

Chibi BronzlifeSep 10, 201623 votes

maybe because they don't want AP kog to come back?

Oakleaf RangerSep 10, 20164 votes

seriously some champions just weren't meant to go certain build paths even if they have some small synergy with it. Imagine if Pantheon was made all AD and then just shake your head in disbelief when you hear someone complain about AP Pantheon being ruined.

The Great DivideSep 10, 201625 votes

But AP Kog Maw had a very legit playstyle, build path, and player base. He became a very potent high range poke threat, especially with items. If you played him well, he was one of the ultimate ap poke champs because his ult gave him insane range.

Comparing Pantheon who as one AP scaling on his w to AP Kog doesn't make sense.

Oakleaf RangerSep 10, 20164 votes

He also has AP scaling on his ultimate the very thing you are saying that made AP kog maw "good"

The Great DivideSep 10, 201611 votes

It's not just about whether the spells have AP ratios attached to it (sorry about missing panth's ult). It's also about what do those spells do, can AP items enhance the spells, can AP items enhance the playstyle of the champ? In Kogmaw's case: absolutely (Seraph for mana galore and a clutch shield, rylai's for sick ult chaining, etc).

In Panth's case......

Oakleaf RangerSep 10, 20161 votes

I heard the argument being made before for AP Pantheons burst from his ultimate and W. There are definitely items that can allow that play style. Is it actually practical though? No since it needs too many things to work. Same could be said about AP kog Maw.

The Great DivideSep 10, 20166 votes

No there are no items, because everyone can see his giant ult indicator, so there's that AP damage right out the window. And his W (while having 100% AP scaling) is very low range and decently cd, while also putting him in range of everything (which if he's building full AP means he just jumped into suicide)

AP Kog used to have a spammable high damaging (base damage with decent scaling), super long range ult. Coupled with a long range high damaging E, he had a very potent niche of being the longest ranged poke mid. And with his very spammable ult with rylais you could chain a lot of damage from an obscene range (URF mode was just too fun).

In any regard: Kog Maw's kit allowed for him to have a practical AP build (Or at least high mana and magic penetration AP items) because of the way the spells worked. Pantheon's kit does not.

Oakleaf RangerSep 10, 20162 votes

First to be clear I'm not defending AP pantheon cause I think its good or viable. If anything I would highly discourage it but I'm playing devils advocate. Pantheon theoretically benefits from AP and magic penetration just like Kog Maw. Just because someone sees his ultimate doesn't mean they can dodge in time or he can just sit in bushes to ambush people with his W. He also has the highest base move speed to chase people down. He already hits people with his W as AD so its just as possible as AP. Also for a "practical" build he doesn't get the ability he relies on the most until 6, seems very practical to me.

The Great DivideSep 10, 20165 votes

......... wut

He hits people with his W as AD, because it lets him proc his AD E, which is massive damage. His W is solely used for the utility. And his high base move speed does nothing if he does no damage because it's all frontloaded into one higher CD AP spell. And he doesn't rely on 6 for his AD build, it just allows to snowball the other lanes after he's snowballed his lane.

Honestly, you trying to even argue that AP Pantheon is even some kind of viable in order to say AP Kog wasn't is just silly. At least use a different example, because you're arguments for AP panth are insane.

Xela SyabSep 11, 20162 votes

idk, the morde rework made him a troll pick, kog is now a omg jungle pick. I don't think you guys goofed up with Kog, you guys just shifted way too much power into one ability and essentially one playstyle. Morde really needs a real rework for a top lane or a jungler champ not a wonkey bot lane mess.

Jinzo TorranceSep 9, 201630 votes

We Malzahar Mains want a revert too

TormentulaSep 9, 201611 votes

{quoted}

We Mains want a revert too

Please,

New malzahar just feels so terrible, yes its like the same kit with a banshee's veil, but I constantly feel like old malzahar was more satisifying to do anything with rather than hiring the count to stand there waiting for voidlings to dive tower and die 1by1 killing nothing.

https://i.imgflip.com/1ac5vi.jpg

YumaS2AstralSep 10, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Please,

New malzahar just feels so terrible, yes its like the same kit with a banshee's veil, but I constantly feel like old malzahar was more satisifying to do anything with rather than hiring the count to stand there waiting for voidlings to dive tower and die 1by1 killing nothing.

https://i.imgflip.com/1ac5vi.jpg

Not to mention, with old Malzahar I could at least clear waves consistently during the first few levels and his damage was way higher.

Wukong X AhriSep 9, 201611 votes

I know your pain Malz was my back up pick for mid.

XilixerSep 9, 20166 votes

{quoted}

We Mains want a revert too

here here!!! i say!!

SaveSep 10, 20164 votes

Idk about you but in all honesty I think this Malz is just better than old Malz. I played old Malz a decent amount (mostly to counter pick some mids) but he was so immobile and so susceptible to getting ganked early and dying. Sure you could probably pull out a kill in 2v1 if you knew what you were doing but I with the new passive that doesn't happen as often. I mean, sure the laner will try to pop passive but that just lets you get just as aggressive and trade well. I feel like his damage is just way better and more than just a "faceroll burst" like he had before. TO SUM it up, BOTH Malz are/were great teamfight, laning, everything champions but I just think this one holds a slight edge tbh

The Great DivideSep 10, 20169 votes

You just made the case for old malzahar..... Malzahar was very weak to ganks and strong engages, but he had excellent damage for a teamfight if positioned properly, and a great 1v1. His new passive broke him, because the passive itself is either broken OP, or nerfed so much its borderline useless (its state right now). And now that his passive is not very good, he plays even less aggressively than he ever has. On top of this, most of his damage was front-lined into his gimmicky w, which is so easy to negate if you know what you're doing (aka, kill the voidlings).

And Malz was only faceroll burst if you were dumb enough to either: get in his close range, or let him walk right up to you. Most of what malzahar actually did in teamfights (contrary to everyone thinking he just flashed r'ed people all the time) was sit back and try and get E bounces, and Q damage and play a more poke-kite style.

All in all: old malz had very great strengths and very great weaknesses. New malz is totally based on his passive which can either make or break him.

EedatSep 9, 201624 votes

Because Kog's rework cant be dumpstered without gutting every single on-hit item in the game

Malicious MetalSep 9, 201624 votes

Let's be completely honest here. New Mordekaiser offers a ton more ways to be balanced than the old one.

He was doomed to be weak for the longest time and the rework opened many avenues for him to succeed. Though I agree that there could be SOME reverts to his kit, especially on the topic of base stats and his awful W

Lord BoltrixSep 10, 201611 votes

This exactly.

People often demand a reversion of Mordekaiser to his previous state, expecting that somehow balance and fairness would come along with the kit that he had pre-rework. But that was never the case, and Mordekaiser sat in a proverbial twilight zone of being so oppressively toxic to face for anyone who didn't have the tools to counter him that Riot could not give him any meaningful buffs.

You think Yasuo is annoying with all his tricks? I wonder if and when the Yasuo circlejerk could have ever handled someone who can burst your ass into nonexistence AND take hits just as well periodically BECAUSE of how much he melts your face, and this is also someone who can take the most fed person on your team and turn him into HIS team's biggest ally should said person make a catastrophic failure.

Feast or famine, thy name is Mordekaiser.

A rework was always in his destiny, it just so happened we got one that nobody was happy with at some point.

I'm pretty sure we would be happy with a partial reversion of Mordekaiser, get to keep a few of the goodies from his rework (the dragon ghost, the shield now scaling with health, maybe the Q and maybe the heal from his W when it expires), of course numbers and costs would need to be changed if we got a partial reversion.

But please, everyone, don't act like reverting Mordekaiser would solve all his problems. Return him to a playstyle more people enjoy, very likely, but solve all his balance problems? Either you are smoking something seriously strong or you never actually played as or against Mordekaiser pre-rework and are just jumping on the bandwagon.

Terminus EdgeSep 9, 201615 votes

With Kog, they can just revert his W and already be making good progress to bringing him back to a good spot.

For Morde, though, it's not so simple. He basically needs a full VGU, like Ryze got, or close to it.

DorkunedAurasSep 9, 201614 votes

Let's think of it this way. Kog before was balanced and balanceable. Kog now isn't.

Morde before was forced to stay weak and was very hard to balance. New morde is slightly better in that respect.

CrazFight Sep 9, 20168 votes

Some morde mains like the new morde

Wukong X AhriSep 9, 201619 votes

Far more quit/don't even play him any more.

he used to have a pretty decent player base its pretty small now days.

Malicious MetalSep 9, 20169 votes

I prefer the new one actually.

A combination of both old and new would be great imo.

Especially that juicy ol' Creeping Death and the increased shield gen rate-

Wukong X AhriSep 10, 20161 votes

Yes i know you love the new one.

and Yeah i miss the old Creeping Death the most tbh.

Malicious MetalSep 10, 20166 votes

A badass cloud of shrapnel surrounding you and beefing you up with some nice resistances while also dealing a TON of AoE damage WITHOUT having to stand to other units.

Damn... It was such a great spell, It was by far one of the spells that screamed "fighter" more than any other of his old skills. It'll fit on the new kit a lot better than a heal that scales with AP instead of missing hp like a juggernaut/fighter spell should be supposed to work.

(Yes, I really dislike his new W, sue me!)

FantasySniperSep 9, 20168 votes

They're reverting what now?

I didn't think "revert" was in their vocabulary.

40glassSep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They're reverting what now?

I didn't think "revert" was in their vocabulary.

Please unrework Corki. his auto attacks deal 0 damage.

Auz the RipperSep 10, 20163 votes

What corki are you playing?

AlutrositySep 9, 20166 votes

[deleted]

ModWulf HelhammerSep 9, 201614 votes

Way off topic for most of the post

Incredibly toxic

Blames Riot for your behavior

This is just too much

Subject 5Sep 9, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Because they don't actually give a fuck about what you want. This isn't riot admitting to their mistakes as JeremyGamingCurious said, it's riot deciding for themselves that THEY disliked the Kog'Maw rework, what it presented, and how it can NO LONGER BE USED IN PROFESSIONAL PLAY BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY THING THEY GIVE A FLYING FUCKING SHIT ABOUT.

Yes, I was a former Mordekaiser main. The supposed rework he got wasn't a rework AT ALL. He was turned into a fucking bot lane "marksman" piece of shit by riot as a way of introducing the concept that marksman can be anything and go anywhere, opening the floodgates for toxic BULLSHIT like Kindred, Graves jungle, Kog'Maw jungle, VAYNE JUNGLE.

This is not for the players. This is for the pros. This is not for the players. This is for them to line their goddamn motherfucking pockets with more money. Every time I see a picture of a riot employee it's them with a side-ways, shit-eating, contemptuous grin showing how proud they are of themselves, their decisions, their dumbass constant pandering to SOCIAL JUSTICE CRAP through making champions like Taliyah and Illaoi, both of whom are NOT BEAUTIFUL AT ALL. One is a teenager, the other is a living, female steroid that for some reason hides behind her big dicked hentai god because she's not a strong woman at all, she's just another %%%%rag bitch, just like Kindred is a whiny fucking brat who does nothing but irritate you and make you want to smash your speakers every time you hear a line complaining about how "WAH WAH, YOU TOOK OUR CHICKENS, THAT WAS MEANT TO BE OURS, I WAS GOING TO USE THE CHICKEN EGGS TO MAKE HIPPY VEGAN OMLETTE HEEHEE XD LOOK AT HOW TRENDY AND AWARE OF HUMANITY'S PROBLEMS I AM!"

Jesus Christ, FUCK YOU, riot.

Fuck you for putting me on a 24 game chat restriction because I had the gall and audacity to defend myself against some little shitrat Fizz player, who got ANGRY because I refused to let him play Akali top, and pull more of that let's-make-assassins-tanky meta GARBAGE - riot knows that shit is toxic - so I get attacked by other players on the enemy team, deal with a passive-aggressive enemy Irelia who wants to ask me why I feel the way I feel, then two seconds later pull a fucking 180 and start bitching about IT doesn't want to hear my opinion. If you don't want my opinion, don't ask for it, dipshit, how fucking stupid are you!?

Sometimes I think riot is a corporate video-game manifestation of everything that is wrong with the world today. Everything they do is pandering to some retarded social agenda, punishing players for having aggressive personalities, punishing them for INSULTING EACH OTHER OVER A FUCKING VIDEO-GAME. Nobody is taking a fucking rope, tying it around their neck and hanging themselves from their fucking chandelier because some other equally assholish character trash-talked them in a game SORRY RIOT, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, TOXICITY DOESN'T EXIST, TOXICITY IS A FUCKING OPINION SOME RETARD WITH TOO MUCH ESTROGEN IN THEIR BLOOD DECIDED "TALKING MINDLESS SHIT ISN'T NICE, BUT IT SURE IS THE CRUELEST THING IN THE WORLD SINCE FUCKING HITLER!"

I could think of a lot more things to say about riot, but fuck it - it's pointless, nothing will change - the only way I'll be able to leave this toxic piece of shit game is if I find something else that is actually satisfying to play. Good luck with that though since innovation in video-games is virtually non-existent with the exception of a few things, but holy fuck, I keep praying something interesting will come out, and help fill the void of emptiness that this game, and the gaming industry as a whole has created.

TL;DR This thread seemed like the perfect opportunity just unload and vent all my fucking frustrations about this game. No, I don't hate women, but I think riot's way of representing women and making them into "respectable remodels" that female players can look up to is backwards as shit, fucking retarded, and there are infinitely better ways to do this. Want an example? Karma. Strong, female character, good looking to boot, and not overly sluttish, or bimbo-ish. Just a strong, attractive, female champion who is intelligent through her lines, actions, and character designs, but without shoving it down your throat like some feminazi bitch.

-Reads the top paragraph

-Skips like 3/4 of the rant-

-Reads the TL;DR

-Somehow is ranting about feminism

TyrekGoldenspearSep 10, 20165 votes

Here's a rough translation.

Just be glad you skipped the rant, in my effort to translate I got saturated with salt. I'm going on a low sodium diet for a while...

Riot only cares about the LCS. The only reason they reverted the rework is because he can be used in the LCS after the revert.

Mordekaiser's rework wasn't a rework but a gutting that tried to make anything a marksman, and blames this for ADCs going jungle.

Repeat of first paragraph, but with more graphic detail on how he personally despises Riot employees, painting them as money seeking scumbags. Describes their smiles as poop eating. Then we move into Social justice territory, with how Riot is "pandering to femenism" by making Taliyah and Illaoi simply because he doesn't think they are beautiful. Mocks Kindred.

He wants Riot to have an orgy.

Complains about a chat restriction he was put under.

Calls Riot out for "pandering" again, this time claiming that toxicity doesn't exist and only "girly" men and women claim it does so they don't get their feelings hurt. Claims that cyberbullying doesn't exist and nobody has ever killed themselves over a videogame conversation.

Wants to leave "toxic" game but can't find anything else interesting.

His TLDR. Thinks Riot's way of representing women is wrong but also claims to hate feminism. Thinks Karma is bae.

AlutrositySep 10, 20161 votes

[deleted]

TyrekGoldenspearSep 10, 20163 votes

... Babe is just a word you use to refer to a woman you like, jeez. It's like Honey or Sweetheart. No need to be so uptight. I was half tempted to write up a translation of this as well.

I only tripped over my brain cells because I have so many they overflow. :^)

I'm glad you like Karma, I like her too. I like all the women in LoL, if not attractively then I like their playstyle or lore.

Also your TLDR has nothing to do with your comment. But whatever.

I hope you are not this heartless in real life. People do have mental/emotional problems dude, real ones from birth. Brain chemistry isn't perfect in everyone.

And I'm sorry if the only response you can give to trash talking is to stoop to their level and talk back to them in this way. You should know it doesn't solve anything and usually escalates the encounter to violence. (Or in the case of LoL, causes someone to DC/AFK/etc. Basically ruin the game for everyone.)

It takes two people to argue and engage in pointless nasty word throwing. Nuff said.

Nik NikersonSep 10, 20162 votes

Here's an interesting fact: Not everything in this world is designed for you to like. Other people like things you don't. They get to have things too.

This thread isn't the perfect opportunity to vent about all your issues. You want to complain about your chat restriction? Start your own thread. You want to complain about female character design? Start your own thread. Most of this has nothing to do with game play or balance.

AlutrositySep 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fIwhjJNo,comment-id=00060003,timestamp=2016-09-10T00:06:59.550+0000)

Here's an interesting fact: Not everything in this world is designed for you to like. Other people like things you don't. They get to have things too.

Nowhere did I say or imply at all that things had to be my way or the highway. Do not try to approach me with your cynical perceptions again.

Secondly that would be an interesting fact if I was at-all interested in you twisting my words to make me seem like some petulant brat that wants things to be his way and his way only. I said if riot wants to portray a strong female champion who is independent, then having her rely on an outside source of power, particularly a god who from my understanding is based on Cthulhu (a male character in Lovecraft's stories) is contradictory and in fact undermine's her independence.

This thread isn't the perfect opportunity to vent about all your issues. You want to complain about your chat restriction? Start your own thread. You want to complain about female character design? Start your own thread. Most of this has nothing to do with game play or balance.

No. I will use this thread because the very thread title itself encourages venting, and person stated they were pissed off and wanted to vent their frustrations. I'm doing the same thing, with the distinction of covering a much larger range of topics as opposed to one, that being Riot's piss poor attempts at creating strong female characters, which only happened because women with tooth-pick bodies became jealous of Miss Fortune and Sona.

Boobs = healthy woman capable of breastfeeding a child, particularly big ones as they can provide more breast milk. Wide hips = healthy woman capable of spreading her legs wide enough to give birth.

Dumb people who are either too lazy to exercise or lack these traits become jealous, claim they are being misrepresented, and Riot caters to their idiotic pleas of social justice and "gender equality". This is something that pisses me off because it is fueling a fundamental misunderstanding of women both mentally and physically, and to be frank, video-games are not the medium to be pushing forth social agendas. Riot chooses to allow these views to effect their character design, and that is, in my opinion which you are welcome to wrongly disagree with, FUCKING STUPID.

TyrekGoldenspearSep 10, 20166 votes

Wait how did you get from reworks to feminism?