i'm not saying i'm ok with the changes, but seeing as how Riot ignoring everything, and will change veigar anyways, i just wanna know, if he were to be played, can anyone adapt to him? and be successful to somewhat a small level?
i like Veigar, despite the cruel change, i don't wanna leave him in the shelf of the unplayable champions.
so is there anyways to make Veigar enjoyable after the changes? i'd really hate to lose the tiny evil master for good
RexZor11 votesWell Since he can no longer land his stun and hit with his W reliably. The best idea was to make him an AP version of 
. The idea is to build him tank and stack ap throughout the game and just hit people with your q till your able to R. Masteries would usually be 9-21-0. Runes probably would be magic resist glyphs, health/armor yellows, magic pen reds, and magic pen Quints.
A build would probably look something like this 
or 
or 
if your really doing well.
Tbh this is the only real way i see him being played until he is reverted or can land his E and W
ElBoob4 votesYep, at the moment Veig is basically the only champ in the game with only 2 abilities.(Can't land W without E and E is unlandable)
Xengre2 votesYep, at the moment Veig is basically the only champ in the game with only 2 abilities.(Can't land W without E and E is unlandable)
Yeah. I could only manage to try him for a single match before I was like thought, "No more". I found myself never using E for the last 20 minutes of the match because of how unlikely it is to catch anyone at all. His W I did still use but its hit and miss because it is simply completely unreliable and needs someone to mess up in order to be hit by it or to get lucky when people are distracted in a team fight. You can't use it as part of your target burst to 100-0, though. Simply can't guarantee it will hit them with any degree of reliability. His Q does give more farm but whats the point? He doesn't start seeing that increased farm until 20 minutes and it isn't significantly more than old short CD Q, anyways, when old Veig could get almost 700 AP by 20 mins (Riot's reference for the new Veig actually being no dif than the old).
Reazale4 votesNot worth it to go tank , the focus should be to pick him in teams that have peel/good CC vs teams that dont have a strong overall mobility. After that pray ur team doesnt feed lanes and just farm mid til objetives time , dont leave lane and dont chase their mid unless its karthus , or karthus... cos u can get bursted down or outdmged , walking on places u dont have sight on is like 10x dangereous.
The stun sux on 1v1 and as a peel or initiation , or anything that isnt zoning, its still a really good zoning tool. dont try to interrupt channels with it it aint worth it , be the time ur reaction+cast+delay the channel will be 3/4 from finishing. U should try to trap enemys without mobility inside the stun , but dont go for the to kill unless ur team is close to be a threath.
He can do stuff on teamfights , its just overall less rewarding , like way less rewarding , and the "improved" ap farming kicks in be midgame, earlygame is the same shit (the ap farming) and dont try trading, it aint gonna work if they have mobility, just farm.
Kögâ1 votesWell Since he can no longer land his stun and hit with his W reliably. The best idea was to make him an AP version of
A build would probably look something like this
Tbh this is the only real way i see him being played until he is reverted or can land his E and W
You need rabadons on him, it's scales with his passive better than other items, rabadons then straight tank build , including cdr items... Frozen heart and cdr boots?
UPfreely1 votes
spells don't matter if u can flash auto attack or tp auto attack
Malix Farwin1 votesWell Since he can no longer land his stun and hit with his W reliably. The best idea was to make him an AP version of
A build would probably look something like this
Tbh this is the only real way i see him being played until he is reverted or can land his E and W
problem is even if you tried to play like that he would only be a gimped version seeing as you can do all of nasus abilities while you can only reliably use R and try to kit with Q
RexZor1 votes[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f86lTgbK,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2015-03-06T09:38:14.637+0000)
problem is even if you tried to play like that he would only be a gimped version seeing as you can do all of nasus abilities while you can only reliably use R and try to kit with Q
He is already nerfed to oblivion. Might aswell play a gimped version of Nasus.
Ser Safir10 votesMained veigar for months.
Will never play him until his stun delay is back to .25 seconds like it always was.
As for the changes... no. They make veig so weak it's not even funny. Every part of his rework has made him weaker. And they honestly had the audacity to call this a buff.
Dabox (best veigar in the world, challenger 2k games, 59% winrate on him in) said veigar is so pathetically weak he can't carry with him and veigar is ruined as a champion.
Thryale6 votesI've played him some more after the change. While I don't like it, he can be played if you know what you are doing.
My main issue tho, is veigar has gone from being the aggressor late game to an uber passive champ. You literally cannot do anything on your own unless the enemy is an idiot. You have absolutely no defense, and thus are forced to play uber passive in hopes that your team can start something and you can come in to finish things off.
Veig doesn't do his job anymore. He doesn't remove one target from the fight then waddle off to wait on his cd's. Now he's compelled to wait untill the fight is half over and try to help clean up with his unreliable stun and basic spells.
In short, veig is going to be a better support with these changes, but as a midlane mage, he's gimped.
Stacona1 votesVeigar was never able to do things on his own before which is why he is better as a support so that he can constantly be with a teammate to make plays, his solo laning has improved post change, but support Veigar still better
Yormaughm5 votesUh, +1 for His Girl Friday .gif because we need more .gifs from movies from 1940.
DrCyanide5 votesVeigar was basically changed from a burst mage to a poke mage. His play style is to hit someone repeatedly with Q, then use his ult on them.
Considering his Q is his only semi reliable harass, picking up will probably keep you safest (and, potentially, let you land an E).
My problem is I already have better poke mages that are more fun to play, safer, and do just as much damage to AD champions. I don't need or want Veigar to be a poke mage, I need him to be the burst mage he's suppose to be.
BuCkeT SeiZureS1 votesVeigar was basically changed from a burst mage to a poke mage. His play style is to hit someone repeatedly with Q, then use his ult on them.
Considering his Q is his only semi reliable harass, picking up
My problem is I already have better poke mages that are more fun to play, safer, and do just as much damage to AD champions. I don't need or want Veigar to be a poke mage, I need him to be the burst mage he's suppose to be.
Not to mention his kit feels extremely jagged. His passive doesn't fit with his, now, AP farming style. The E is almost useless, except for zoning. He is immobile with no CC. And his ult has short range while everything else is long range. The E buff may be nice for support veigar, though. I would still pick Karma over him, because she will actually do damage and has utility
Reazale1 votesLike i said, i dont think is a good idea on Veigar , the slow is mostly useless (only ult is single target, yes , his Q is an aoe spell and uses the 15% slow, which isnt big enough to help him land his stun). I think would be a better pick for tankingess and it helps to sustain him a little in lane, u should aim for mid late game with Veigar cos without his stun u wont be killing anyone in lane unless they are retarded -.- (sry but its true).
Once teamfight starts (dont try to start them , w8 til they break out before using ur stun) the delay on the stun isnt that horrible , its just terrible :P.
I should try something with or 
to help his "burst" but i would lean more on the side of .
Stars Shaper5 votesI feel your pain... I'm having even an harsher time with 
because what they did now was "lowering his damage because he is gonna be tankier in a Soon™ Patch, meanwhile.. enjoy this nerfed version of the current Morde.. See ya!"
And is really frustrating to see ppl walking away with the HP you would have eaten before the patch.
Stacona2 votesthe slightly lowered the damage per second damage on his shield for the utility buff
Stars Shaper4 votesThey nerfed his hp regen to oblivion, reduced the damage on his q (notice, damage + scaling) and the utilities morde got are a total joke.
Stacona3 votesThe only damage that they nerfed was a little bit of damage on his shield, that is it- nothing else got lowered damage wise and morde does not need health regen once he has spell vamp anyways
Stars Shaper1 votesWrong, he needs it a lot also because one of his core items (Spirit Visage) buffs that and it has been proved a bunch of times that Morde spell vamp will be useful only against 5+ targest for E and 3-4 for Q
Also with the upcoming nerfs to voerall damage Spell Vamp will be less effective too and also the shield will be built slower while having the same cap as today.
So, unless they reveal anything else this is gonna be a plain nerf with band aid mechanics that don't change ANYTHING and give him stuff that is anti-thematic (Morde running faster to save allies WTF?) and useless (dem 75 more range on Q... can't kite me for sure anyway)
Alchius4 votesIt's tough to adapt to a strictly weaker version of a character rather than a different version of a character.
Reazale10 votesWe can try to adapt , or we can go and play Viktor , ur call :P
A Superb Villain14 votesEmbrace the Glorious Evolution!
Alëk4 voteswe might have to start running exhaust on veigar to make it easier to land stun.
Reazale1 votesNever tought about this one :D
SpecterVonBaren1 votesOooo... a promising idea...
BuCkeT SeiZureS2 votesRiot needs to realize that veigar needs some form of instant Hard CC. Until that happens, he is not viable. With the cage stopping dashes, it "helps" a little. But now they use their dash before the cage comes up. I don't care if they give him a stun like xerath, but he needs to be able to stop people from jumping on him AND catch opponents. He is an immobile champion that has no way of saying, "Get off me!" And with two spells, he cant out damage them either. Riot is a great company and I feel awful for bashing them, but this is amazing how much they struggle here. They are trying very hard to put a band aid on a broken limb. Event horizon needs a rework, not a delay.
Reazale3 voteshe wouldnt need a stun if his dmg was higher and more reliable , which it isnt , like 40% of his dmg is on a 1.25 delayed skill shot. I mean , now that his aoe stun is dodgable he should at least get the same ratios and base dmg leblanc has , he beign immobile and all.
BuCkeT SeiZureS1 voteshe wouldnt need a stun if his dmg was higher and more reliable , which it isnt , like 40% of his dmg is on a 1.25 delayed skill shot. I mean , now that his aoe stun is dodgable he should at least get the same ratios and base dmg leblanc has , he beign immobile and all.
I agree he needs more reliable damage. But I also think that bursting anyone is not the answer. He should be able to obliterate squishies. And severely damage bruisers, but not do much to tanks. For that, I think he does need reliable CC. Being as immobile as he is, he should have something to push people away or stop them. Look at ziggs, xerath, velkoz, and Annie. They all have something. Veigar has to wait .75 seconds to even have a chance of saving himself... And by then he is already dead.
Reazale1 votesIdk why he shouldnt be able to do it to tanks... leblancs chunks tanks for more than 1/2 of their hp with cds under 30 secs (maybe my memory fails me and she was fed as fuk :D).
And i know what u mean about the cc , but if he had enough dmg to kill ppl that aint stunned and that dmg be less dodgable (like leblanc q-r-w) that would be fine , the stun would be there mostly as a zoning tool ( like it is right now , a really unrealible stun like this is just an AWESOME zoning tool and nothing else mostly).
Its not all instant CC if u have enough reliable dmg, there are many champs that dont have a strong cc but still can acomplish burst... sadly most are just "toxic" as fuk like talon, leblanc, rengar, diana and a couple more i cant remember.
PalPlays1 votes[{quoted}](name=BuCkeT SeiZureS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f86lTgbK,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-03-05T16:16:49.072+0000) He needs to be able to stop people from jumping on him AND catch opponents. He is an immobile champion that has no way of saying, "Get off me!"
: "Welcome to the club!"
BuCkeT SeiZureS5 votesHe needs to be able to stop people from jumping on him AND catch opponents. He is an immobile champion that has no way of saying, "Get off me!"
Oh shush, chicken. You have a wall, passive, and 2 slows. Not to mention the extreme damage and wave clear. While definitely a high skill cap champ, Anivia has the tools she needs. Not to mention the extreme wave clear and AoE damage.
Flawless Fetus2 votesWe'll adapt to these changes the same way we adapted to the maoki/yasuo changes. He will join the group of 'has beens'. They essentially removed his e. That is going to be /hard/ to adapt to.
Hard Penetrator2 votesVeigar at his current state isn't worth of mastering. No strong points, no game changing ultimates, no good early, mid or late game. Playing with character should be fun and rewarding, not frustrating and tiring.
I won't even touch him till he gets buffed. I have tons of other champions way more enjoyable to play than him. Heck, even Ap Lulu seems better.
Solidair31 votesYeah. I think after 5.5's buffs I'll be fine. I was already doing pretty well this patch, so a slight improvement will definitely make him viable, I think.
Solaxo1 votesI will stop playing him, sadly. They changed his "core". It's simply not fun to play him anymore
Llanite1 votesSame argument was made to Fizz rework weeks ago. Yes, it will work given enough time.
From what I see, going glass AP rarely worth it, as he has a secondary source of AP, tank/ hybrid is the better way to go. I went Veigar top with some successes, you will be playing like Swain/Ryze but going for defense instead of mana.
Stacona3 votesFizz is broken and were suppose to be nerfs, they need to lower the % damage on his W and remove the damage amp on his ultimate
SmokingPuffin1 votesYou should probably wait two patches. Riot will fix him.
They are following the same plan as they had for Syndra -- crushed to 40% win rate in 5.1, incremental buffs each patch until fixed. You'll probably get to play Veigar in serious games about 3 months after they get Syndra into them.
AnonTwo1 votesThe only way to adapt would be if Veigar
The latter is more possible, but that puts him in competition with the likes of Ziggs and Orianna in terms of wave clear, something he doesn't really have the mana to do. His early mana regen is absolutely pitiful, mixed with his spells being a mix of too spammy (and therefore using mana too quickly for the damage), or too expensive (W and E didn't get much easier)
Likely 2 is the only thing he's positioned to do now, but he's just not competitive with the current lineup, who has both better clear and better CC (In Orianna's case)
Burst is dead, because Veigar lacks the reliability to pull it off. The double AP bonus doesn't make up for how difficult it is to actually get 2 stacks at a time, and the fact the ult ratio was nerfed, meaning he'll need more stacks than before just to break even.
It will be years before all the more reliable burst mages have their "lackof counterplay" all hit, provided it ever happens at all, meaning there will likely always be more reliable burst mages than Veigar now.
Squidblimp1 votesI had an idea: any enemies trapped inside Event Horizon should be stunned by Veigar's other abilities. This makes Event Horizon easier to land because you're not just aiming to hit them with the wall anymore, you're trying to trap them and follow up with a stun. This way, you can still reliably stun, but they can still dodge your Q or Dark Matter skillshots to avoid the stun. However, if you land your Q or ultimate, you can then follow up with Dark Matter so it actually hits.
Protonic1 votesI have played Veigar a fair bit in the past, and would consider him one of my go to mages.
That said I did try out the changes versus the old style, and I have to agree that at best he feels different.
I found that Event Horizon is definitely less reliable, and with the shape of the ability, its a more difficult to plan on actually stunning people right away, whereas "trapping" people tends to be more-so the effect if not "missed. I think some fine tuning is needed to make this ability work as intended, as I think with the added delay, there's some unintended difficulties being added (like not stunning people when it should).
I have mixed feelings about the Q, mostly because if any of the skills are "different" that this would be the highest qualifier. I like the idea of hitting two targets and it feels good to pull it off, and even though in ways I miss the reliability of the single target, I think this change is the most capable of being adapted to.
Dark Matter feels pretty much the same, with the only real major difference being obvious it's combination with Event Horizon, which I'm okay-ish with, so long as Event Horizon works as intended, hence the potential to also be adaptable.
Since really the only change to the ultimate was a nerf to the damage, I can kinda feel it, but a numbers game like that is a matter of more qualified balance.
So, overall I think it's possible to adapt to the changes, and it will definitely be necessary to get anywhere near the amount of success prior, but I also think some fine tuning, particularly with Event Horizon will be necessary to make it feel complete and working as intended. That way should something still feel gimped, it's less of a debacle to make it right.
BrutusTheCat1 votesThe problem is if you ask anyone their most memorable moments as Veigar, all the stories start and end with a stun, a missed stun costing the team a game getting, or a perfect max range stun on an adc winning a teamfight or what have you. Yes he is a burst mage but I think his core identity was tied to his stun and since that was hardest hit by the nerfs it will take time for a new play style to emerge or a complete rework from Riot to heal our little guy.
Crett1 votesHere's how you do Veigar now. Take him bot lane, as the carry. With support Darius, Thresh, or Morgana. Surprisingly effective.
Don't do that in ranked though.
LANWhale1 votesI mean we can adapt to it, heck Urgot players are a testament to that. The problem is, even if you adapt it doesn't change the fact that this champion is in a bad spot.
delonix1 votesI'm a fan of abusing his ap farm potential. Even if it doesn't translate well into spells, you can itemize to take advantage of it. + gives a ton of burst damage on autoattacks after spells. For survival I like and 
because early game is just a long farm-fest where you'll have plenty of time to stack that 
.
League of Potato1 votesI mean he can still do damage, but his mana costs/regen have taken a massive hit early game. Literally one E, W, Q combo and you have no mana left. Not only that but his E is basically worthless because unless the enemy team is literally blind, the whole stun part of it is pointless. The enemy has so much time to walk out of it it's ridiculous. What I always found nice about veigar was that while he was not mobile at all he had his E to help him escape. With the warning, the delay, and the cast time, if your enemy doesn't side step it, they weren't even paying attention because it takes little to no skill to dodge veigar's new "Stun". His E was also good to initiate a team fight. Catch an enemy in a bad spot and lock em out. He was always a huge single target burst mage. You could easily tell the difference between a good and a bad veigar. Riot has turned veigar into a poke mage instead of a burst mage, because apparently everyone needs skillshots to take any "skill" to use.
ZacsRealm1 votes after 5.4 is a minion worth 300g
